To all movie lovers... where you energys should be directed. - High-Def Digest Forums
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  #1  
Old 06-11-2007, 01:26 PM
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Default To all movie lovers... where you energys should be directed.

There is a lot of fan boy chatter going on (I'm perceptive and notice these things).
I have a 360 addon and 20 or so movies... I'm not about to waste my money on a PS3 (the 360 serves my console needs and the PS3 has no games I want anyway). My little rant here IS from the side of some who thinks that HD DVD is currently the better format. But that doesn't mean I dislike Blu-Ray, it has it's qualities as well.
Basically, I don't give two hoots about the 'format war' all I want is a choice of some great discs at a reasonable price.
To the BR apologists.... take a breather... HD DVD is the ONLY thing that stopped Sony selling you all crap Blu-Ray discs for the next 5 years. The crappy ones that first came out were all they were willing to make... like they didn't give a shit about their consumers experience.. The quality of the HD DVD FORCED them into making the discs they are now and at the price they are. BR discs are expensive to make at the moment, yealds are low compared to DVDs and HD DVDs. Some one is paying for that... be thankful it's not you.

Currently the only way forward is to start getting some community muscle behind the dual format players. I don't know about you format fan boys, but personally I like films, not polycarbonate circles.... I want to buy Ghostbusters and Spider-man in 1080p and I only want one player under my TV. This isn't a technical problem... its a corporate bitchy problem... You might be wanting to say, well let HD DVD die then. Well why would that be good for anyone. It's software and required hardware specs are much better than Blu-Ray... why have LESS choice. It's also cheaper to produce (for the little studios) and it can do DVD combos.. some people don't like those... but they ARE useful. The film can be played in any DVD player.. that's good as far as I'm concerned. Plus it's lack of region coding is important. It creates a much more open market.

SO! Lets start advocating the dual format devices and stop the pointless bickering. We are on the same team here, doing the work for faceless corporations doesn't do anyone any good. There is ZERO reason why both formats can't prevail. It will mean so much more choice for the consumer.
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Old 06-11-2007, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by joeymac View Post
There is a lot of fan boy chatter going on (I'm perceptive and notice these things).
I have a 360 addon and 20 or so
...
<snip>
... doing the work for faceless corporations doesn't do anyone any good. There is ZERO reason why both formats can't prevail. It will mean so much more choice for the consumer.
But I love my molded polycarbonate circles. Shiny Shiny! And Round with pretty pictures.

/what were we talking about again...damn shiny circles ... eye and brain magnets
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  #3  
Old 06-11-2007, 01:41 PM
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I'll be buying the Samsung dual format player this fall as long as they don't price it completely out of the market. I think the future of dual players will be riding to a large extent on how that unit does, other CEs will be watching and if the Samsung sells well I'm sure others will follow suit.
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Old 06-11-2007, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by joeymac View Post
HD DVD is the ONLY thing that stopped Sony selling you all crap Blu-Ray discs for the next 5 years. The crappy ones that first came out were all they were willing to make... like they didn't give a shit about their consumers experience.. The quality of the HD DVD FORCED them into making the discs they are now and at the price they are.
Whoa there Dobbin...

Seems to me we've heard this argument before.

Let's dismantle your argument from first principles. Sony aren't the only studio releasing blu-ray discs. If there were no HD DVD Sony would be in competition against Universal, Disney, Fox, Warner and Paramount for consumer dollars. If their plan was to release crappy barebones movies (and I don't think this was the plan) they'd have had to upped their game really quick to keep market share agianst such stiff competition. How can I be confident that shoddy releases were not Sony's plan? Well, let's look back to the early days of DVD. Sony was one of the first studios to embrace anamorphic transfers (unlike Fox and Paramount) and do new masters for DVD (unlike Warner and Universal who recyled lots of laserdisc transfers). They also had plenty of discs offering supplements.

So, as you can see, Sony actually have a history of leading the way in providing good quality product. Why then, did Sony's initial blu-ray offerings stink? Well they had to rush launch as HD DVD was first to market and had received (rightly) lots of favourable press. Oddly, blu-ray's abortive launch in June 2006 probably has become it's biggest millstone, it's amazing how many people still post about 'The Fifth Element - lol' and 'House of Flying Artifacts' like we were still living in June 2006.

You might want to check out the quality of Sony's 2007 releases against Warner and Universal. Sony have barely put a foot wrong since January.

As to the price of discs, they find their own level. For proof of this, check the average sales figure for a Fox catalogue title, they are miles behind Universal and Sony. Fox will have to drop their price at some point if they want to shift more units.

Last edited by Kid Banana; 06-11-2007 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 06-11-2007, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Kid Banana View Post
Whoa there Dobbin...

Seems to me we've heard this argument before.

Let's dismantling your argument from first principles. Sony aren't the only studio releasing blu-ray discs. If there were no HD DVD Sony would be in competition against Universal, Disney, Fox, Warner and Paramount for consumer dollars. If their plan was to release crappy barebones movies (and I don't think this was the plan) they'd have had to upped their game really quick to keep market share agianst such stiff competition. How can I be confident that shoddy releases were not Sony's plan? Well, let's look back to the early days of DVD. Sony was one of the first studios to embrace anamorphic transfers (unlike Fox and Paramount) and do new masters for DVD (unlike Warner and Universal who recyled lots of laserdisc transfers). They also had plenty of discs offering supplements.

So, as you can see, Sony actually have a history of leading the way in providing good quality product. Why then, did Sony's initial blu-ray offerings stink? Well they had to rush launch as HD DVD was first to market and had received (rightly) lots of favourable press. Oddly, blu-ray's abortive launch in June 2006 probably has become it's biggest millstone, it's amazing how many people still post about 'The Fifth Element - lol' and 'House of Flying Artifacts' like we were still living in June 2006.

You might want to check out the quality of Sony's 2007 releases against Warner and Universal. Sony have barely put a foot wrong since January.

As to the price of discs, they find their own level. For proof of this, check the average sales figure for a Fox catalogue title, they are miles behind Universal and Sony. Fox will have to drop their price at some point if they want to shift more units.
And Fox will have to actually start releasing movies again (hopefully with better tranfers when they do).

Hopefully Disney will come back with a full release schedule also. Sony is the only one releasing alot of movies with good transfers at the moment.

If Warner & Paramount get their act together on the Blu-ray side & start releasing higher bitrate transfers & uncompressed sound that would help also.
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Old 06-11-2007, 08:19 PM
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And Fox will have to actually start releasing movies again (hopefully with better tranfers when they do).
Yes, they should also move to better codecs and include extra's too.

Fox are the great underperformer of HD. Do you rember Fox's '5 Star Collection' DVDs? They were great and good value. Do you remember their early DVD releases? They were crap and overpriced. Can you guess which model they've used for their HD catalogue?

C'mon Fox. Release some decent movies in decent quality, decently priced.
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Old 06-11-2007, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Kid Banana View Post
Sony was one of the first studios to embrace anamorphic transfers (unlike Fox and Paramount) and do new masters for DVD (unlike Warner and Universal who recyled lots of laserdisc transfers). They also had plenty of discs offering supplements.
I'll give you the first 2 but the supplements one is way off, they were probably the slowest at getting supplements on their discs. Plus their discs always defaulted to the 2-ch soundtrack
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Old 06-12-2007, 03:16 AM
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I'll give you the first 2 but the supplements one is way off, they were probably the slowest at getting supplements on their discs. Plus their discs always defaulted to the 2-ch soundtrack
The slowest studio was Paramount, surely.

Sony's new release titles generally had a good selection of extra features. Their catalogue titles were often feature free but then so was most of the opposition.

As to defaulting to the 2 ch soundtrack, I never had this problem as my dvd player automatically selected the 5.1 soundtrack.
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Old 06-12-2007, 09:45 AM
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Okayyy. Kind of missed my main point there kid banana.
Sony might have raised their game for whatever reason, but they 'did' have to raise their game. Their benchmark for their brand new format was very low. But whatever.... that's the past no one cares. If it pains you THAT much..remove my bias from the my original post and just imagine it says.. "the presence of two formats has been really great in getting loads more movies out, in better quality and at a cheaper price than they 'should' have been at this point in time".....

Whatever "could" have happened in the past, where a single format was used,.... IS the past. Neither format is going to go anywhere.
The best and only option now is proper multi-format players.
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  #10  
Old 06-12-2007, 10:09 AM
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I didn't miss your point, I just don't agree with it. If there was only the blu-ray format in existance, the quality of releases would have increased just as quickly.

What were the first titles available on HD DVD? Well, they included Last Samurai, Phantom of the Opera, Million Dollar Baby and Training Day. These are all Warner titles and were among the first released on blu-ray too. So even if there were no HD DVD, Sony would have been in competition with the standards of software offered by early HD DVD releases.

As I've said before, even if there were only one format, the studios are in competition with each other for the consumer dollar and better looking and better spec'd product will get better press and sell more units. It's certainlyhow I made my early DVD and HD purchases. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

As to the pricing of Software, that's studio decision. Higher priced software sell worse. Think of Laserdisc, think of Fox BDs all highly priced and low selling. You say to ignore the past, but you can learn an a lot by looking at the various mistakes made in marketing previous formats.

The only major benefit of the format war has been to drive hardware prices down quickly. I don't think it's led to more movies being released more quickly. In fact, the swift cracking of AACS via the HD DVD add-on for the 360 has slowed down the release schedule for BD as Disney and Fox have pulled titles.

As to dual format players, what will they solve? They'll make hardware more expensive and the last split format (DVD-A/SACD) tanked because of consumer confusion and apathy despite a move to dual format players.
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