If Hd wins think we will ever see the movie get its own disc? - High-Def Digest Forums
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Old 06-10-2007, 12:58 PM
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Default If Hd wins think we will ever see the movie get its own disc?

Although I think HD will win because of its lower entry point I like the large bitrates that Blu Ray can support. Looking at some blown up shots of Flags of Our Fathers over at Avs there is a difference (very small one) between the 30+mbps avc file and the 20ish mb VC-1.

If we started to see a push for extras on seperate discs for high profile titles I think this would narrow the already small gap between bit rates even more. I know HD DVD has plans for a 34 and 51 gig disc but many have said these discs will never see release because of backwards compatibility. What do you think?
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Old 06-10-2007, 01:20 PM
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I also question the cost of the 3 layer disk and the 34 gig. So far a 30 gig hd-dvd is slighly cheaper then a BD 50. From how long it taking to get the 51 gig disk here I think they must be running into problems
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Old 06-10-2007, 01:29 PM
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The disc can very well be released but not as disc for movies. No HD-DVD player manufactured to this date are able to read three layer discs and firmware upgrades won't help because it's not the software that is lacking. Computer drives is another thing but without burning capabilities there is no reason for this on PC:s either.
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Old 06-10-2007, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Merlins View Post
The disc can very well be released but not as disc for movies. No HD-DVD player manufactured to this date are able to read three layer discs and firmware upgrades won't help because it's not the software that is lacking. Computer drives is another thing but without burning capabilities there is no reason for this on PC:s either.
Nobody knows this for sure. The only thing we know is that about a year ago a engineer released some statments saying that it was unlikly that the first generation players would be able to read through a 3rd layer because of the noise problem and that it would most likly be a hardware upgrade that was required.

Now given that none of this was pure fact and just specualtion by a single engineer, nobody knows for sure the current state of affairs regarding the 3 layer disc and what will be required to actually use them. It is certainly not impossible that they could come up with a software solution for filtering out the noise.

Fact is none of us know for sure and until we hear a definitive awsner by Toshiba everything is just speculation.
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Old 06-10-2007, 06:16 PM
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HD won't win this one...but neither will BD.
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Old 06-10-2007, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vriess View Post
Although I think HD will win because of its lower entry point I like the large bitrates that Blu Ray can support. Looking at some blown up shots of Flags of Our Fathers over at Avs there is a difference (very small one) between the 30+mbps avc file and the 20ish mb VC-1.

If we started to see a push for extras on seperate discs for high profile titles I think this would narrow the already small gap between bit rates even more. I know HD DVD has plans for a 34 and 51 gig disc but many have said these discs will never see release because of backwards compatibility. What do you think?
HD DVD players would not play these 51 gig discs even if they were made. 3 layers is not in the spec. HD DVD hardware available today will only support up to 2 layers (30 GB) and nothing can change that.
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Old 06-10-2007, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Vriess View Post
Although I think HD will win because of its lower entry point I like the large bitrates that Blu Ray can support. Looking at some blown up shots of Flags of Our Fathers over at Avs there is a difference (very small one) between the 30+mbps avc file and the 20ish mb VC-1.

If we started to see a push for extras on seperate discs for high profile titles I think this would narrow the already small gap between bit rates even more. I know HD DVD has plans for a 34 and 51 gig disc but many have said these discs will never see release because of backwards compatibility. What do you think?
Your comparing 2 pictures made by 2 utterly different codecs and then speculating that the difference in picture quality is because of the formats bit rate limits. You have no idea why there is a difference in picture quality. It could be because of the codecs setting or could be because of simply sharpening of the image. Bottom line you have zero evidence and zero proof that this so called diifference in picture quality is a direct result of the bit rate Issue.

This is the biggest problem with this entire argument. You guys were not the people making these transfers so you have no idea why there are diffeences in picture quality especially when there are 2 different codecs being used on each format.

To claim that such differences are due to the bit rate issue is utter speculation with zero evidence to back up such claims.

Using different codecs results in different end product picture quality, its no different than using 2 different kinds of films even if they are the same speed. Different emulsions, different codecs equal different picture qualities. This isnt even touching on the fact that these guys have upteen filters at thier disposal to alter image quality including sharpening tools.

Again there is zero proof that this has anything to do with bit rates.
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Old 06-10-2007, 07:45 PM
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I've always preffered a 2nd disc for special features.

Besides commentary and an IME/U-control type special feature that involves watching the film, all other special features should be on another disc, so the movie has maximum space.

BD included. Why cram everything into a BD50, when the film could get all that space to maximize AQ and PQ.

especially since bonus features will start to be in HD, they will take up even more space and a second disc will be needed anyway.

Mission Impossible III is a great example, most of the special features are in HD on the 2nd disc, and the movie is on the first disc with just the commentary tracks.
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Old 06-10-2007, 07:54 PM
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I thought HD DVD always had 3 layers in their specs.
Wasn't the 3rd layer supposed to be an extra 15gbs making a total of 45gbs?

So why wouldn't there be a very good chance of a 51gb working in 1st gen players?

The CD managed to stretch out more megs over the original cap of storage.
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Old 06-10-2007, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by HomeTheatreFreak View Post
Your comparing 2 pictures made by 2 utterly different codecs and then speculating that the difference in picture quality is because of the formats bit rate limits. You have no idea why there is a difference in picture quality. It could be because of the codecs setting or could be because of simply sharpening of the image. Bottom line you have zero evidence and zero proof that this so called diifference in picture quality is a direct result of the bit rate Issue.



Again there is zero proof that this has anything to do with bit rates.
There is no proof but I think the facts are right in front of us here. I woudn't expect a much smaller encode to hold all the information a larger one would so these differences make sense to me. I think VC-1 is a great codec, and I think if they had similar bitrates there would be no difference. I also think it's clear that the higher bitrate had some effect on quality here.
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