Does bitrate matter, revisited. - High-Def Digest Forums
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:24 AM
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Default Does bitrate matter, revisited.

This time not by me. AVS has the exrtacts of the latests high bitrate movies that have been encoded diffrently in BD vs HD and optimized for each.

The good stuff starts here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10693404


The best comparison is the BD vs HD version of the Prestige and Flags of our Fathers. They have mouse over support to do a proper A/B

Flags of our fathers, notice the missing grain and high frequency data from the HD DVD version
http://www.mbmg.de/hd-discs/flagsofo...-vs-hd/03.html

Prestige. Notice in the forest how all the film grain is gone from the vc-1 version. Most noticible in the smoke from the train.
http://www.mbmg.de/hd-discs/theprest...-vs-hd/03.html


Perhaps we can finally put to rest the theory that HD can do just as good of job as BD with only a fraction of the data as long as "professional tools" are used.

Last edited by Bee; 06-08-2007 at 10:34 AM. Reason: baiting remark
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:37 AM
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Honestly I couldn't care less if there is SLIGHTLY less grain with one under a freeze frame. Are you really going to notice while watching a movie? No. And if you do, you're looking for it.

Last edited by Pat H; 06-09-2007 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
Perhaps we can finally put to rest the theory that HD can do just as good of job as BD with only a fraction of the data as long as "professional tools" are used.
Wow. I would think, if anything, these shots prove that they are equally capable of the same image. Seriously, they are practically identical. Especially The Prestige - I had a hard time distinguishing between the two. Nobody would ever notice this difference.

Last edited by Bee; 06-08-2007 at 10:44 AM. Reason: removed qupted remarks
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:58 AM
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wow, this will really look better when I get a 300" display!

AVC defintely looks slightly better then VC-1 but it is so marginal that I can't imagine anyone really losing any sleep over this
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Old 06-08-2007, 05:31 AM
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3 observations:

1) The OP is trying to make a bitrate argument. Apparently nobody can say what the bitrate on either format is in those comparisons for those particular shots. So what if they are the same bitrate? What if the HD DVD, for that particular shot, had a higher bitrate? Who knows and Who cares. This is obviously meant to be more of a comparison with AVC vs VC-1.

2) Assuming that the HD DVD version has a substantially lower bitrate for those scenes, all i can say is wow! This definitely proves, to me, that higher bitrate does not make any noticeable difference in these situations. If you have to actually pause a film, take a screencapture and do mouseovers for 10 minutes with an eye of scrutiny to tell any difference, that very much shows which format is more efficient with space.

3) For those of you that think you CAN see a difference between images, I would be willing to bet $5,000 that none of you could pick out which format was which 4/5 times in a double blind test just watching the movie as it was meant to be watched.

This once again proves that BD is substantially more expensive technology with very little gain.
Victory for HD DVD (more specifically VC-1).
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Old 06-08-2007, 05:58 AM
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Someone on that thread just posted the point i've been trying to make for some time about bitrate.
This was in response to a new post of a bunch of new prestige comparisons. http://www.mbmg.de/hd-discs/theprest...-vs-hd/01.html

Go ahead and analyze to your hearts content and see just how much more fantastic BD is than HD DVD .
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam
I agree - the picture quality on these two releases is exactly identical.

And the AVC encode at 22.54 Gigs has a 28.5 % advantage in bit budget over the VC1 encode at 17.54 Gigs.

So what we are seeing so far is a very slight difference in PQ when AVC has 57% more bit budget than VC1 - yet absolutely no difference at all when AVC has nearly 30% more bit budget than VC1.

I think my point still stands, thank you

The only piece left in the puzzle is to see VC1 and AVC compared at the same bit budget...
There you have it folks, the differences are noticeable on paused/zoomed screens if you want to pixel hunt, but only when BD has <50% higher bit-budget.
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Damit View Post
Someone on that thread just posted the point i've been trying to make for some time about bitrate.
This was in response to a new post of a bunch of new prestige comparisons. http://www.mbmg.de/hd-discs/theprest...-vs-hd/01.html

Go ahead and analyze to your hearts content and see just how much more fantastic BD is than HD DVD .


There you have it folks, the differences are noticeable on paused/zoomed screens if you want to pixel hunt, but only when BD has <50% higher bit-budget.
In that one, like all the others, I rapidly move the mouse on and off and I really can't see anything that stands out. There is slight movement in noise but generally no loss in detail or quality. Especially nothing you'd notice in the 1/24th of a second that that frame is on the screen.
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Old 06-08-2007, 10:06 AM
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Despite the minor differences in the picture quality, the BD has lossless PCM and the HD DVD is lossy DD+. Early reviews I've read say the HD DVD sounds OK, but not spectacular. I'd like to hear a comparison of the two because the BD without question sounds spectacular.
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Old 06-08-2007, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackinbox View Post
Despite the minor differences in the picture quality, the BD has lossless PCM and the HD DVD is lossy DD+. Early reviews I've read say the HD DVD sounds OK, but not spectacular. I'd like to hear a comparison of the two because the BD without question sounds spectacular.
Flags had DD on Blu-ray and DD+ on HD DVD, Letters had TrueHD on HD DVD and Blu-ray. I don't know what the Prestige UK HD DVD specs were if that's the one you were talking about.
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Old 06-08-2007, 10:24 AM
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Ahhhh . . . to have so much free time, to sit down and compare . . . look, at this point, NO ONE is going to change their minds about their formats. If it takes you looking at some freeze-frames, pulling out your magnifying glass, and saying you see a pixel in one version and not the other - if that makes you confident your format is the best, good! Seriously, whatever it takes to make you happy.

Me: I don't watch movies in freeze-frame, I don't sit three inches from my tv looking for compression artifacts or anything like that - this doesn't effect me in the least. If the movie looks better in high def than it did in 480p, I'm a happy guy!
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