My Rant on BD, HD DVD, New Price, etc, etc - High-Def Digest Forums
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Old 01-15-2008, 08:20 AM
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Default My Rant on BD, HD DVD, New Price, etc, etc

I know this is probably going to start an argument or a full blown war,but since I've been a member here, I have always wondered about this. Weall have read about the poster "KingOfBlu" finally breaking down andbuying a Toshiba HD DVD player. We all have seen his response whensomeone asked him if he liked it or not. Fact is, he loved the player and was quite complimentary of it.

Now, my question is.... How many BD fans here ACTUALLY own an HD DVD player? I have a feeling that a lot of you are basing your decisions on some very bad information when it pertains to HD DVD. I feel that you cannot honestly give an opinion on something unless you either own it or have used it extensively. King is a perfect example of said owner.

For a while, he bashed HD DVD left and right and until he actually used it. When he finally took the "Red" plunge, he was hooked and said that he takes back anything and everything negative he ever said about HD DVD. He acknowledged that while he prefers Blu, HD DVD was a quality product that was a great value for the money. This is a classic case of judging a book by its cover.

While I don't think he's the typical BD fan, I feel as though most BD owners bought into Sony/BDA's disinformation campaign designed to destroy the HD DVD format and Toshiba's reputation. Both BD and HD DVD have their strengths and both have their weaknesses.While we can debate all day long as to which one is better, to do that is an exercise in futility. For example;

Some BD fans say that internet capability is useless, while HD DVD fans tout it as being great. One way to look at that is, the BDA, will always play down their disadvantages. Like the internet thing. Of course the BD fans are going to play that feature down because not one standalone player has that option.

Another example is the fact that BD likes to tout its available storage capacity to HD DVD. HD DVD plays that down by saying that you only need so many GB's for a movie and that their discs hold enough information. Of course HD DVD is going to play down the disc capacity argument. They have some limitations that BD doesn't have at the moment.

Looking at this whole war objectively, both of these formats have a lot to offer and I really don't see why we can't have two (2) formats or at least a hybrid of the two. The HD DVD format along with the BD format could be so much better than what they are. I mean, imagine an HD DVD with BD's scratch resistant coating and storage while keeping HD's known compatibility reputation? Now am I alone or would that totally kick some major DVD butt?

Some of us including myself will continue to buy HD DVD's as long as they're available to purchase. HD was my first and will always be my preference when it comes to HDM. If there's a movie that I wanna see that's not on HD DVD, then I go out and buy the BD version which is obvious when you look at my signature. The only people that win in my situation at least is HDM.

Even if we were to have two (2) different formats, the ultimate winner in this is optical media and with that, digital downloads are put back where they belong. Sometimes you have to give a little and take a little. In this war,there has been a lot of "take" and a lot less "give". That does nothing to help the situation except stall the adoption of HDM and cause companies to waste millions of dollars marketing their product to non-HDM owners. Oh and before you say it, I think the studios can and will be profitable if they were ALL neutral. The HD DVD ownership group was estimated to be hovering around 1.2 million owners while BD was around 8 million. That is a lot of potential customers on both sides of the fence.

Now, with these drastic price cuts on the HD DVD players, I do not yet feel that this is a firesale. I feel that Toshiba has not given up on its loyal customers and I do not see them giving in anytime soon. I think they believe that if they get the players in the homes, then that will give them more power when it comes to negotiating for studio support. As long as they continue to have Paramount, Dreamworks Animation and Universal, there will be a war.

Regardless as to what people say, the BD fans would love to have some of Paramount's or Universal's catalog titles on BD. Both Universal and Paramount have impressive catalogs and to deny this is just foolish. I've seen a lot of rash predictions from the BD side about Paramount and Universal's abandonment of HD DVD and will be BD in just a few short weeks. Well, a few people have posted links from people in the "know"and both Universal and Paramount have denied that one big time.

As for Toshiba's marketing, it's really not that bad on paper. They're simply trying to appeal at the "Up-Conversion" market which in all honesty, is ruling everything else. The average "Joe 6 Pack" doesn't know much about the HD DVD/BD war, so Toshiba is trying to make in-roads with that by touting that their player is one of the best upconverts in the business while touting it's uses with DVD and HD DVD. It's actually a pretty good idea if you look at it objectively.

The MSRP for the average decent up-converter is roughly 129.99 - 200.00 when factoring in the various Oppo models. Now, even if J6P doesn't buy any HD DVD's, that's still market penetration when it comes to players and it won't hurt to have the added HD DVD playability option. How many HD DVD titles are there available just in the US? 400+? Then you have to factor in the import option as well.

To make a long story short, this is about HDM. Not what side of the picket line you're on. We're all movie lovers to an extent. Why can't we seem to act like it instead of calling each other schoolhouse names and such? I and many others will continue to support our HD DVD/BD players and insulting each other is not going to change that fact.

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Old 01-15-2008, 08:25 AM
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again, nobody wants two formats for multiple (and well discussed) reasons.
why hate? participate!
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Old 01-15-2008, 08:28 AM
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Good Post. Personally I don't have a problem with 2 formats.

Unfortunately, history shows that a successful unified format has complete industry support.
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Old 01-15-2008, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by REDMAN View Post
How many BD fans here ACTUALLY own an HD DVD player?
I have an A3; I am not overly fond of it.
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Old 01-15-2008, 09:27 AM
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If both formats are still arounf in a year or two, dual players will be cheaper, and the reasons for releasign a movie on BD or HD will be movie length, type of interactivity and licensing costs.

In that situation, studios will eventually all gravitate to the same format and only one will survive, so it's basically delaying the inevitable.
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Old 01-15-2008, 09:34 AM
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I am fully Blu, but my first foray into the world of HDM was the HD DVD attachment for the 360. I had a few movies for it, but I later traded the system in for a PS3. I've toyed with going purple for a short time, but eventually decided to go Blu. I recently considered getting a stand alone HD DVD player, or even sitting out until the format war subsided. The move by Waner and their affiliates changed all that. I scrapped my plans for purple and have since been buying only Blu.
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Old 01-15-2008, 09:49 AM
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I have never owned HD. I have only seen it on an in-store display a handful of times.
I am fully sure, based on all that I have read here and on other sites, that I would enjoy it immensely. I believe that it is a very solid product which delivers a home theater experience which I would enjoy fully.
The problem is, I chose BD. And I really, really want a unified marketplace. I'm under no delusions as to the hurdles which either HDM product has in gaining mass acceptance, and I really doubt that it will ever happen. But I believe quite firmly that a single format will get a bigger slice of the proverbial pie than a fractured, two format HDM vision ever could, even when combining sales of those two formats. And it's going to take a larger overall penetration to see continued growth and release of catalog titles, remastered and worthy of HDM, IMO.
BD has over 400 releases now. HD another 400, with some crossover. Big flippin' whoop. SD has somewhere in the neighborhood of 77,000, last I heard. And they're still finding some genuine quality titles to release which have never seen the light of day on DVD. Next month, "El Cid" is supposed to hit, in all of its Widescreen, Charlton Heston-y glory. And where the F$%K is "The African Queen"? I'd snap that up in a heartbeat, as would many other classic cinema lovers.
Anyway, that's where some of us are at. We don't hate HD, or think that it's worthless. We just want to see it gone, as we believe that it's departure will increase our odds of seeing "Dr Zhivago" and "North by Northwest" in stunning HDM. And if things had gone the other way over the holidays, and HD was in the driver's seat while BD held out with a couple of studios, you would find me here in the forums arguing just as passionately for a single format. It would just be "the other one." (And like many here, I would keep and enjoy my existing collection for as long as it would play...)
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Old 01-15-2008, 10:21 AM
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I have both formats, but knew from the start I wanted Blu-ray to win. My first purchase was the Sony S300 and I have been very happy with that model. I also picked up a Toshiba A20 for about a week but was dissatisfied with it and returned it. Some time later, I picked up the Wal-Mart $98 Toshiba A2, figuring, well, at that price, I am not going to complain if it breaks down. My thought was I could use it to rent titles from Netflix that aren't currently on Blu-ray.

But you know something? I still back Blu 100%. And as for the Toshiba A2 player, I think I have seen maybe 2 movies on it, and it sits just gathering dust on the shelf because even as an upconverting player, it is a distant second to the Sony S300.

So I have experienced both formats, in 1080p (for the Sony and the A20) and 1080i (for the A2) and I am behind Blu-ray all the way.

You also need to get the input of people who have been Red and have opted for Blu. I can also say, "How many of the HD DVD people here ACTUALLY own a Blu-ray player?" Believe me, the Reds can be just as opinionated at the Blus without any real comparison.

I want this war to end so Blu-ray can fully get adopted with more consumers, but now Toshiba has completely f----d that up because I am sure a number of the public will buy these cheap Toshibas, find there is no product to go with it, see the overwhelming amount of titles from Blu-ray but say, "Hey, I've already been screwed by Toshiba and this machine. I'm not going to bother with the Blu-ray. Screw high definition!" This is what Toshiba has done with their new marketing strategy, ruined it for everybody.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:12 AM
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Default hdm

HDM will be pushed on us, like it or not. It will replace dvd in the future as the main media format for movies. Just like windows xp replaced win 98, even though people were fine with windows 98 and how vista is replacing xp, even though xp is more then plenty for people. Once the new product costs similar to the old product, there is no reason to stay with the old one.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:15 AM
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I lean blu, but either format could have won and I'd be happy. I just think that we need an end to the madness.

I want a healthy HDM market and while these price cuts may seem great now, they don't make for a sustainable market.
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