i would like to have a civil conversation - High-Def Digest Forums
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:29 PM
ultradark buckshot's Avatar
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Default i would like to have a civil conversation

I am a blu ray supporter, but i have some talking points that i would like to hear actually refuted by my cousins in the hd dvd camp. really we are on a similar side (trying to bring the future of home media into every home) both of our sides are trying to defeat both the old champion, DVD, and the new nemeses (hd vmd/hd downloads). I think both of us can agree that we would prefer a physical media to a downloaded media. but we constantly bicker amongst ourselves. some spread lies, others outright attack the character of others. i see this here quite a bit. i have been guilty of being pretty sarcastic and maybe a little antagonistic at times, but usually only towards those who have already taken the gloves off and laid into others unnecessarily. one thing i would like right now is for my cousins in the hd dvd camp to speak civilly with me on a few subjects that i see getting harsh reactions from your family. i want to be civil and have a genuine conversation. that means you actually have to answer instead of saying "fud" "liar" etc. if you do use those terms please explain why so there is a point to counter. here are some reasons why i feel blu ray is better:

First and most debated, the technology:

Storage capacity - if 30 is enough room, why did paramount plan o put advanced audio only on blu ray titles (before their much debated and as analysts have put ti "confusing and counter to the decisions the public has made". that will be touched on later.

Bandwidth - hd dvd does have less bandwidth then blu ray. but once again whether it is necessary or not is constantly debated. what we need to realize is that we need a format that can grow with our expanding needs. PIP is a cool function and is uncompressed audio along with the bd live features that will soon be available. but with bandwidth already being used to its maximum capacity on hd dvd, how can it still be a viable format in 5 years as tv displays and video/audio quality constantly becoming more complex and thus needing a larger pipe as it were to fit through.

secondary argument points, studio support:

disney requires that their material have region coding for many reasons; different release schedules, piracy protection in the form of foreign titles not being replicated and sold worldwide.

fox required that there be advanced piracy protection. Blu rays higher capacity allows for such software to be put onto each disc. it is true that BD+ was just finished and that is why there has been a lack of fox titles until recently.

Sony pictures: that really goes without saying i think.

Paramount/dreamworks were originally hddvd exclusive before launch i believe, they along warner who was also hd dvd exclusive before launch, for reasons which i can only speculate. i believe because the potential sales of their software to the millions of ps3 owners. As was said before paramount began announcing titles that seemed to favor blu ray with higher bit-rate encodes (avc as opposed to vc-1) and uncompressed audio which the similar titles announced for hd dvd lack. warner also announced that the new harry potter needed to be a 2 disc set while the blu ray release only required 1 yet they both contain the same material.

third point, hardware, players:

the ps3, is it a player or isn't it. Hd dvd group will say that they lead the way in player sales because they do not count the ps3 calling it game system. then they will say that they have better attach rates because even though blu ray has consistently outsold hd 2:1 since launch that blu ray has more players. so they will count the ps3 when it suits them. you can't have it both ways.

More blu ray players:
blu ray has many more player models then hd dvd, just look at all the models announced at IFA. from more manufacturers. now it has been argued that hd dvd players are cheaper. but let me bring up that these companies building players are sony's competition and are looking to make money. toshiba makes low cost 1080i players and low cost 1080p players but has never stated that they actually make a profit off of the players. so if they are not making money off of their players they are not acting in the best interest of their investors and screwing your investors is never a good thing to do. that brings distrust to the market in general. which is bad all over and i think reflects poorly on toshiba. there have been new player announced by electronics companies that will bring other manufacturers into it.

Now i must admit that hd dvd did have it right when they required all their player to be compatible with the pip ime and internet functions. that is important to have standardization amongst players. blu ray did not do that but is now getting its act together.

more titles.

Hd dvd had a lead when it came to launch dates. both formats had some bad encodes with their launch titles as well as some good ones. but the number of releases has been argued around and around. i believe blu ray had more titles until paramount went hd exclusive, at which point any paramount titles were no longer counted so i believe hd dvd has a slight lead now in number of titles. but after Q4 that could very well change back in blu rays favor.

Quality of blu ray titles available. Naturally everyone is different by i feel there are many more titles to buy coming to blu ray this holiday season than hd dvd, as well as many more quality titles already released on blu. the only exceptions being warner titles that warner has said they will be releasing on blu now that bd java and profile 1.1 are complete.


The FUTURE:

oooohhh the future. flying cars, pills that microwave into whole dinners (watch the fifth element of you can) and 3d movies/games. The first 2 unfortunately are not within the scope of this opening statement. mitsubishi has developed a blu ray player that can create on the fly 3d from a 2d source. as well as the possibility of games that are 3d and 2 people can play right next to each other but each see a full screen image via special glasses for player 1 and 2. this also eliminates screen looking and cramped visuals. unfortunately only tvs that have 120hz refresh capabilities can work.


ok. i'm done. please lets try and be civil. i don't want to go medieval on someone today. a pleasant conversation would be nice.
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:32 PM
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What is your purpose? To combine all the topics discussed in all threads into a single one, since you mentioned pretty much everything in this war...
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corduroygt View Post
What is your purpose? To combine all the topics discussed in all threads into a single one, since you mentioned pretty much everything in this war...
I believe his purpose, as stated in his post, is to point out the benefits of Blu-ray and why he prefers it. Also to have members of the HD-DVD camp respond if they are in disagreement or want to add a point.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:09 PM
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Could not read the whole thing but to have a civil conversation should not start on a smackdown forum IMO.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:12 PM
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my purpose was to create a thread where i could lay down all the things i see as blu ray having over hd dvd in a very non threatening way, and hoping to get a civil discussion going. i am 100% blu ray, and do not understand why anyone would pick hd dvd. i do not believe that the hd dvd supporters are ignorant i just don't understand and am seeking to understand. all to often in these forums people get really mean and resort to personal attacks or shots like calling each other liars without actually pointing out what said person is lying about.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by casper77 View Post
Could not read the whole thing but to have a civil conversation should not start on a smackdown forum IMO.
i thought this was the best place to start because of the smackdown nature. i have read here for a while but only signed up today. i would like everyone to show that there can be a conversation that is open minded and not who can yell the loudest.

does anyone have anything to say about what i said? or is this going to be a questioning of motives until its closed?
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultradark buckshot View Post
my purpose was to create a thread where i could lay down all the things i see as blu ray having over hd dvd in a very non threatening way, and hoping to get a civil discussion going. i am 100% blu ray, and do not understand why anyone would pick hd dvd. i do not believe that the hd dvd supporters are ignorant i just don't understand and am seeking to understand. all to often in these forums people get really mean and resort to personal attacks or shots like calling each other liars without actually pointing out what said person is lying about.
Well said, I also am genuinely confused as to why anyone would choose HD-DVD when they are truly informed on both.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultradark buckshot View Post
my purpose was to create a thread where i could lay down all the things i see as blu ray having over hd dvd in a very non threatening way, and hoping to get a civil discussion going. i am 100% blu ray, and do not understand why anyone would pick hd dvd. i do not believe that the hd dvd supporters are ignorant i just don't understand and am seeking to understand. all to often in these forums people get really mean and resort to personal attacks or shots like calling each other liars without actually pointing out what said person is lying about.
How could you not understand someone picking HD DVD? It's ABOUT THE MOVIES. There are simply far too many great hd movies you can ONLY get on HD DVD. Not only that but alot of titles you can get on both have great exclusive features blu-ray can't do right now. Like 300's make your own cut of the film and online features. And the new harry potter slew of exclusive features.

You can talk numbers on paper all you want. You can talk bandwith. But 300 hd dvd has picture in picture blu screen. blu-ray does not. Upcomeing HD DVD of harry potter with have picture in picture interviews. The blu-ray version will not. Explain why blu-ray still match hd dvd in extra feautres? Only excuse is wasn't released complete and given a full year still isn't. At the end of the day none of this shit really matters.. It's about the movies.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:18 PM
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I think the biggest issue facing blu ray, something that is critical, is the profile issue.

Technically it is better, but reality and paper are two different things.

Until BD players are all 1.1 ready, and cheaper than 300.00, the adoption rate will stay niche.

HD will be the first to get to 99 dollars, and that will win the race.

It won't be the first time that the "better" tech lost. I remember os/2.

Now, the compression difference between HD and BD50 is around 2%, a BD movie will be compressed 92% and an HD will be compressed 94% (you can check these numbers on AVS).

One must remember, the uncompressed film is bloody large, terrabytes!
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:33 PM
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I have a question. If you spend $2000 dollars for your tv. Is a $99 dollar player really the one you are looking at? Price point at this stage of early adoption is a moot point. As we are all starting to see with Toshiba's slowly shrinking market share of players. But it might just be me. At this stage we all need to be looking at the future of a tech not what is enough today. And for me Blu-ray has much more tommorrow.

Okay second question. If choice in titles is really your only reason, why did you ever switch from SD-DVD? Those PIP extras can't be the only reason. I personally find them to be distracting and a waste of disk space that could have been used for a better video and audio encode. I mean really, the special features have never truely sold one title. Its about the movie ie. the picture quality and sound quality. Thats why I buy a movie.

Last edited by flood13; 09-07-2007 at 06:44 PM.
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