Has anybody else realized Toshiba's scam on the HD-A20? - High-Def Digest Forums
View Poll Results: What do you own or have tried out first hand?
HD-A2 47 57.32%
HD-A20 16 19.51%
HD-A3 24 29.27%
HD-A30 18 21.95%
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  #1  
Old 12-15-2007, 02:45 AM
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Angry Has anybody else realized Toshiba's scam on the HD-A20?

Let me make it short and sweet:
A2 and A20 are 1080i processing,A20 upscales to 1080p, output HDMI into HDTV 1080P for both,both have latest firmware update, see no difference, why pay more for 1080p up-conversion in A20? All 1080p TVs do up-conversion, why buy A20 for more money? Please explain how much difference 1080p/24 is really going to make? 1080p/24, the only difference between the two did not come into play until last month. Anyone else realize this? Has anyone else spent time first hand testing these 2 or the 3rd Generation machines head to head? What do you see besides just numbers? Explain your experience.


The Original long sleepy review and rant written at 3 am ....

Ok here is what I know and understand about two of Toshibas 2nd Gen lowest machines. The HD-A2 and the HD-A20. I have tried them both with the latest firmware and have spoken to a Toshiba HD tech rep. I wanted to know what is the difference between the two because there must be if the customer is paying $100-$200 dollars more for the "better" machine. Both machines process HD-DVD at 1080i. The A20 up-converts the signal to 1080p. OK? But so do 1080p displays. The Toshiba tech even told me it was better for the display to do the up-conversion since that's what is producing the final picture.
So why would a person who owns a 1080p TV, want a 1080p signal when there TV can already do the up-conversion from 1080i? The answer given was to give the customer the options. To me that said, " to give the customer an option to spend more than they have to". The A20 does have a 1080p/24 option with the new firmware. But I still saw no difference on a 46 in. 1080p TV. It was just as good on the A2 at 1080i, with a 1080p up-conversion in the TV. And any one that has a 720p/1080i TV which most of the hard working middle class purchased in the last few years, would not even have the need for such a feature. This to me is a huge hidden retail ripoff to the people who don't know enough and spend their good money only because the A20 says "TRUE 1080p" which again isn't because the DVD is still being processed at 1080i.
So I congratulate all those that got the $99 deal on the A2 weeks ago, because it is the same machine as the A20 that retails for $399.00. The 1080p/24 option that was added to the A20's firmware could probably be added to the A2's with out a doubt and is keeping Toshiba from being sued for misleading and ripping people off. But before the last update they were lying to customers and I believe they still are. The tech totally did not want to go any further in the discussion because I still was not satisfied I was getting more for more money. So I returned the A20.
Remember too that this signal is also referring to a HDMI input only and with the Component option they are still exactly the same machine at 1080i. So you tell me, if you have a HDTV that does 1080p, do you really need the A20 to send it an up-converted 1080p signal, when it could do a better job at receiving a processed 1080i signal and up-converting it to it's native 1080p? The tech had no answer to that and I dropped it right there.
I hate it when I find out how dishonest a company can be. It also seemed fishy to me that there were so many different steps-up models in Toshiba's line of HD DVD players. I mean really how many different versions of the same thing do you need? I'm sure the A30 and A35 are excellent and the XA2 is fantastic. So don't think I am referring to any of those. I am only referring to the two 1080i machines that have had a decent price difference and IMO has stolen alot of customers hard earned money.
I would love to hear other peoples results with these two machines. I tested them head to head with Transformers HD-DVD and SD DVD just to see how well they did. I spent 3 hours and also used a Samsung 1080i up-convert DVD player to compare up-converting and unfortunately the Toshiba's did not do very good at all. Too much artifacting with the toshibas. Samsung and Xbox were smoother and therefore clearer with SD DVD. I used to use the Xbox add on for my viewing before this testing and I will say the Toshiba's do a better job at HD-DVD playback when it comes to sharpness. But every thing else about those two I tested is thumbs down. Do you think the A3 and A30 are similar in their results? Thanks for reading my review and rant on the A2 and A20.

Last edited by TIMS2SENSES; 12-15-2007 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 12-15-2007, 02:48 AM
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Old 12-15-2007, 09:29 AM
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Paragraphs are your friends.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:24 AM
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Uhh, real thoughts on the subject please.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:38 AM
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Can your TV do 1080/24p? If not, then you are right, you won't notice a difference and it means you have a good converter on your TV.

Gawd, was there a coherent thought anywhere in that garbled mess?

As previously suggested, try breaking down your thoughts into digestible paragraphs that actually have a point and/or question on a single subject. Then you may get some sort of response.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:54 AM
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My apologies, it was written at 3 am in the morning, not the best thought out writing I know, and maybe TOO LONG for the texting generation. Just quit the literary critiques or I might as well not share anywhere on here. I made paragraph changes so you don't forget to breath while reading. Didn't realize there were a bunch of English teachers posting on the forums. Where are the technical A/V enthusiasts?

Let me make it short and sweet:
A2 and A20 are 1080i processing,A20 upscales to 1080p, output HDMI into HDTV 1080P for both,both have latest firmware update, see no difference, why pay more for 1080p up-conversion in A20? All 1080p TVs do up-conversion, why buy A20 for more money? Please explain how much difference 1080p/24 is really going to make? 1080p/24, the only difference between the two did not come into play until last month. Anyone else realize this? Has anyone else spent time first hand testing these 2 or the 3rd Generation machines head to head? What do you see besides just numbers? Explain your experience.

Last edited by TIMS2SENSES; 12-15-2007 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 12-15-2007, 02:57 PM
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You will notice 1080i vs 1080p if your deinterlacer in your tv is worst. Or the A20 deinterlace better. You WILL notice the different between 60 and 24 if your TV accepts 24p. You also get better audio on the A20 or A30 vs the A2 or A3.

There is a difference between 1080i and p. And no isn't a scam. Your rant the most worthless post I EVER seen.
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Old 12-15-2007, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMS2SENSES View Post
Uhh, real thoughts on the subject please.
Ok, this is bullshit.
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Old 12-15-2007, 04:20 PM
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It's not about "upscaling" 1080i to 1080p. It's all about "de-interlacing" 1080i to 1080p. Upscaling means to take a lower resolution picture and scaling it up to a higher resolution one. E.g., upscaling a SD DVD goes from 480 to 1080 lines.

How I see it is which do you want to do the de-interlacing: the HD DVD player, or the TV? If your TV does a good job at de-interlacing (and you don't care for the extra audio decoding of the higher models), then the A2/A3 models are perfectly good options. If your TV does not do a good job at de-interlacing, the A20/A30/A35 models might be better bets. However, as a side note, reviews I've read about the A30 suggest that the A30 doesn't de-interlace all that well.

The 1080p/24 only benefits you if your TV can process 24Hz signals. Supposedly you get more of a film-like experience as all movies are filmed in 24 fps (I'm just going by what I read). Otherwise your TV needs to do a 3:2 pulldown and convert the 24Hz to 60Hz. You may experience juddering because of this conversion.

For me, I find my TV does a pretty good job at de-interlacing and it can't process 24Hz signals. So, the A3 made the most sense for me.
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Old 12-15-2007, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crspyjohn View Post
You will notice 1080i vs 1080p if your deinterlacer in your tv is worst. Or the A20 deinterlace better. You WILL notice the different between 60 and 24 if your TV accepts 24p. You also get better audio on the A20 or A30 vs the A2 or A3.

There is a difference between 1080i and p. And no isn't a scam. Your rant the most worthless post I EVER seen.
No one so far has mentioned any thing about what they have tried and seen for themselves. Only what you have read or heard. I want stories on real experiences. Also You said you get better audio on the A20 and A30 vs. A2 and A3, look at the spec sheets, I did and I was on the phone with Toshiba. Have you been intelligent enough to talk to someone on the phone and ask? You have no experience.
I know there is a difference between 1080i and 1080p, just not with the two machines I am testing. Learn how to read. And it is deinterlacing I was talking about when I said up-converting too many times, I just forgot the correct terminology.
Thanks for the correction Sino. You were able to correct me without getting personal. Still waiting to hear about what you all SEE and HEAR and not Terminology or Paper Spec corrections on my review.
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