360 isn't enough - HS 10 gigs - just sound - High-Def Digest Forums
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Old 08-14-2007, 10:13 PM
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Default 360 isn't enough - HS 10 gigs - just sound

Very cool read. And just another reason why PS3 went with Blu-ray technology. (Since it would take 1 DVD just for the sound on Heavenly Sword). Usually, I don't post in the games section, but I seem to hear this in the movie threads - "Sony Forced Blu-ray on it's customers! Why don't they offer a DVD PS3?! Name one game that couldn't fit on a DVD!."

Hopefully, this answers all of those. And remember, these are the early games in the next generation of gaming.

Take it easy, all.

http://www.developmag.com/tutorials/...Heavenly-Sword

Quote:
In our monthly look behind the scenes on the audio production of a recently released or upcoming game, John Broomhall speaks to Ninja Theory's Tom Colvin and SCEE's Garry Taylor about the making of music and sound FX in Heavenly Sword…

HEAVENLY SWORD

Format: PlayStation 3
Developer: Ninja Theory
Publisher: SCEE

Audio Team:
For Ninja Theory: Tom Colvin (lead audio); Nitin Sawhney (original music score); Dave Sullivan (senior sound designer); Play It By Ear (fole***y and cut scene sound design); Harvey Cotton (audio programming)

For SCEE Cambridge: Garry Taylor (audio management and cut scene mixing); Lee Banyard, Jeremy Taylor, Andrew Riley (additional sound design); Ed Colyer, Shepperton Studios (additional foley); Dan Bardino, John Broomhall, Kenneth Young, Dave Ranyard (additional audio production); Chip Bell (audio programming)

The Numbers:
10GB of sound FX, approximately three and a half hours of music, 4,500 lines of dialogue


With an epic story, epic game and an epic audio production, Heavenly Sword oozes high production values. Even before audio lead Tom Colvin’s personal two and a half year labour of love began, a belief in the power of sound had already been demonstrated by the team’s calling for potential signature sound designers to pitch – a practice more commonly associated with composers.

Colvin explains: “Al Zaleski’s demo work (at audio team Play It By Ear) stood head and shoulders above the others and his movie pedigree speaks for itself. To top that, he was great to work with. I’m really happy with the foley and combat sounds – all vitally important for a game so focused on graceful, agile, martial arts-style sword fighting.

“For me, sound is very ‘immediate’ to the player. Music has a well-established cultural language; sound is much less clearly delineated – but you can get straight to someone’s emotional responses with it – there’s little time for the brain to analyse. Sound is key in making this awesome weapon – the Heavenly Sword – come to life so you can sense its brooding power and almost hear it feeding off each kill.”

The game features a strong narrative exploring the interplay between heroine Nariko, her father, their clan subjugated by an evil king, and their guardianship of the Heavenly Sword, an historical weapon with the power to change their fate. Cut scenes play a vital role but with visual finessing continuing late into the project, the sheer scope of work was a challenge.
SCEE’s Garry Taylor elaborates: “There’s an hour and a half’s worth of cut scenes in eleven languages, so mixing alone was a massive undertaking. That’s why we ‘in-sourced’ all the dialogue mixing to our colleagues in Foster City, USA whilst I focused on the music and effects mix at our new Cambridge-based recording studio. I kept a close eye on continuity issues to avoid any jarring between in-game and cut scene sound – whether ambiences or relative levels or even matching FMOD’s surround positioning. Some cut scenes are very small segments replayed within complex branching structures so we ended up using three-frame audio overhangs at the top and tail to cross-fade on – it works a treat.”

According to Colvin respected music artist Nitin Sawhney was a clear choice as composer: “We wanted someone with a genuine grounding in Eastern culture who was equally at home with contemporary or classical forms, as well as being completely comfortable with the project’s technological setting. With his eclectic talents, Nitin was perfect and enjoyed the opportunity to create for a wide-ranging and diverse set of requirements.

“In-game, we work a lot with his mix stems (e.g. perc, strings, woodwind) bringing them together in response to game events and status. Several factors (e.g. threat level) are weighted and combined to determine the exact music replay – but it isn’t just a universal ‘cross-fade, catch-all’ approach. We make the engine observe the music forms to allow (say) long emotionally-charged vocal phrases to play out properly, rather than being faded out just because the game state’s changed. This allows the music flow to be maintained – it keeps the connection to the action, without compromising musical sense.”

Taylor and Colvin undertook an overall mixing phase during the development’s final stages, again deploying SCEE’s studio as the objective listening environment and using Ninja’s powerful run-time mixing tools. Explains Colvin: “We have the virtual equivalent of a ‘flying faders’ film mixing console with extensive hierarchical grouping and scene snapshots. ‘Live’ editing of audio at this stage is absolutely essential – not just volumes, but proximities, frequency fall-off – even the listener position…”

Taylor continues: “…and also not being afraid to strip things back if necessary. Sometimes when you stand back and take in the overall sound picture, you think - does that really need to be there? Never distract the player’s focus! The machine’s so powerful now – capable of handling so much audio, which is great – but as we all know when you’re mixing, sometimes ‘less is more’.”
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Old 08-14-2007, 10:14 PM
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Uh....what?
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Old 08-14-2007, 10:19 PM
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What's confusing Starky?
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Old 08-14-2007, 10:22 PM
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You. What does any of what you posted have to do with the 360? Heavenly Sword isn't on the 360.

And I GUARANTEE that all of that audio in the game is uncompressed. But so what?

Again, what does that have to do with the 360? Mass Effect will have even more dialogue that HS. Mass Effect will be on the 360.
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Old 08-14-2007, 10:35 PM
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There’s an hour and a half’s worth of cut scenes in eleven languages, so mixing alone was a massive undertaking.
So instead of releasing regionally specific discs with a fraction of the audio, they're just releasing one disc and dumping all the different audio on it. Numbers are meaningless, you don't know the quality, content and how much is basically useless sound oversampled or selectively done to prove a point.
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Old 08-14-2007, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Aodh View Post
So instead of releasing regionally specific discs with a fraction of the audio, they're just releasing one disc and dumping all the different audio on it. Numbers are meaningless, you don't know the quality, content and how much is basically useless sound oversampled or selectively done to prove a point.
Exactly. Having all of that space has its benefits. But I don't understand why the hyperventilating "360 isn't enough!" thread title.

Audio is what always takes up the most space on a disc (which is why I always laugh a the "DVD 9 isn't enough for free-roam games!") argument.

Any free roaming game can come on multiple discs since it isn't the graphics engine that takes up the most space, but the audio and story-driven cutscenes. You can make a huge GTA-style game on multiple discs. The city would be rendered in full on all the discs, it's the story-driven elements that would be divided up.

Skies of Arcadia had a HUGE overworld fully rendered on two discs (even more on the second disc, actually), Shenmue is another good example.
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Old 08-14-2007, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Blu Christmas View Post
Very cool read. And just another reason why PS3 went with Blu-ray technology. (Since it would take 1 DVD just for the sound on Heavenly Sword). Usually, I don't post in the games section, but I seem to hear this in the movie threads - "Sony Forced Blu-ray on it's customers! Why don't they offer a DVD PS3?! Name one game that couldn't fit on a DVD!."

Hopefully, this answers all of those. And remember, these are the early games in the next generation of gaming.

Take it easy, all.

http://www.developmag.com/tutorials/...Heavenly-Sword
Dude, you BEAT ME TO IT!!!!!

http://www.talkaboutdesign.com/forum...10gigs/#Item_1

No wonder people were also raving about the music.....in one of the "Making of" video they showed a small orchestra being used to create the music...VEDDY VEDDY COOL!

This title will be amazing!!!!
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Old 08-14-2007, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by StarkyLuv View Post
You. What does any of what you posted have to do with the 360? Heavenly Sword isn't on the 360.

And I GUARANTEE that all of that audio in the game is uncompressed. But so what?

Again, what does that have to do with the 360? Mass Effect will have even more dialogue that HS. Mass Effect will be on the 360.
The whole point (as stated in the title of the thread you clicked on) is that 360 and HD DVD supporters often claim the PS3 has no reason to use Blu-rays.

As stated - using the DVD technology the 360 uses, games like these would not be possible. That is why Sony went with Blu-rya technology.

And IMO, MS was very short-sighted for its' next gen gaming system to stick with DVD 9's.

How is any of that confusing. You have over a 1,000 posts. This is the first time you are hearing this argument?
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Old 08-14-2007, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Blu Christmas View Post

As stated - using the DVD technology the 360 uses, games like these would not be possible. That is why Sony went with Blu-rya technology.

And IMO, MS was very short-sighted for its' next gen gaming system to stick with DVD 9's.
False. It would be on 2 DVD's.

Sony went with BR on the PS3 to push the format. Simple as that.
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Old 08-14-2007, 10:45 PM
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I really hope the game is good. I mean actually good, not how the Sony sponsored blog is paid to say is good and how Play magazine thinks every game is good.

And I hope PS3 owners buy the game and PLAY it. It seems you guys have de-prioritized playing games and have focused on the Great System War.

You seem more concerned with PS3 games "outdoing" 360 games and don't seem as concerned about if the games are any fun to PLAY. Yes, you want them to be reviewed well, but you don't seem to actually want to PLAY anything.
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