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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by twonunpackmule View Post
    I'm glad MS is focusing on AR instead of the Illumination shit tech from a year or two ago.
    That was nothing more than an R&D tech demo, never a "focus" for them.

    Now that leaked roadmap and "Project Fortaleza" showed that they thought AR would be on Xbox by now. I guess that ended up turning into HaloLens and turned out to not be practical for consoles.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdinred View Post
    That was nothing more than an R&D tech demo, never a "focus" for them.

    Now that leaked roadmap and "Project Fortaleza" showed that they thought AR would be on Xbox by now. I guess that ended up turning into HaloLens and turned out to not be practical for consoles.
    Eh, a few videos and "imagine the possibilities" stated it was more than a "demo." However, I think they learned quickly from the lack of interest and AR's potential in the sector of gaming.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by twonunpackmule View Post
    Eh, a few videos and "imagine the possibilities" stated it was more than a "demo." However, I think they learned quickly from the lack of interest and AR's potential in the sector of gaming.
    No, it was never a focus of MS.. wasn't even on their product road-map. And yeah, lack of interest in AR gaming, as demonstrated by Pokemon Go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Foundry
    The question boils down to this: is 4K really worth it? And the answer to that is pretty straightforward - it definitely is. The detail increase is profound in its own right and moves into a different level entirely with HDR engaged. Link

  4. #19
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    to clarify, there's nothing inherently wrong with "imagining the possibilities" (although it can get silly).
    lowering expectations at a later date is where the scrutiny lies
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  5. #20
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    I bought a Gear VR and made everyone at work try it. It sortable after all and easy to slap it on some ones face.

    When you watch a reporter who's never played games in her life start smiling and singing her head around you get the feeling like this shit could work.


    The gear VR is insane by the way, for being just a phone, and I paid $60 for the headset. When that stuff starts to converge on what Vive and Occulus are doing, it'll be a thing for sure.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Averry View Post
    The gear VR is insane by the way, for being just a phone, and I paid $60 for the headset. When that stuff starts to converge on what Vive and Occulus are doing, it'll be a thing for sure.
    Vive/Oculus are the expensive experiments. The stuff they do will trickle down over time. PSVR is already going to offer a roomscale like setup for much less than Vive. It won't be as good. PS Move is terrible, and I can't imagine they fixed anything with it. The early impressions have already determined that they haven't. However, it doesn't need to be perfect to sell the idea or even the excitement of VR. It just needs to make it a reality for people. Time will evolve all this stuff, and improvements will come. The PC will get all that stuff first. The nature of it's openness just allows it. However, the bigger budgeted experiments will arrive because of consoles.

    Other boards I frequent that talk about this stuff takes that all into account. It isn't "instant gratification" like it is here. It's more or less acknowledging the need for Sony or MS to adopt it for companies to invest. We only get "demos" because the cost for a consumer to experience the game is too much at the moment. But, you can't drive cost down without competition. So, the free market will have to do it's job. This job takes time.

    As it is, VR is a reality. That's notch one on the old belt. VR being mainstream? That's a notch that still needs to happen.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by twonunpackmule View Post
    Vive/Oculus are the expensive experiments. The stuff they do will trickle down over time. PSVR is already going to offer a roomscale like setup for much less than Vive. It won't be as good. PS Move is terrible, and I can't imagine they fixed anything with it. The early impressions have already determined that they haven't. However, it doesn't need to be perfect to sell the idea or even the excitement of VR. It just needs to make it a reality for people. Time will evolve all this stuff, and improvements will come. The PC will get all that stuff first. The nature of it's openness just allows it. However, the bigger budgeted experiments will arrive because of consoles.

    Other boards I frequent that talk about this stuff takes that all into account. It isn't "instant gratification" like it is here. It's more or less acknowledging the need for Sony or MS to adopt it for companies to invest. We only get "demos" because the cost for a consumer to experience the game is too much at the moment. But, you can't drive cost down without competition. So, the free market will have to do it's job. This job takes time.

    As it is, VR is a reality. That's notch one on the old belt. VR being mainstream? That's a notch that still needs to happen.
    Honestly, because of how well the Gear VR works.......if Apple ever did something.....it wouldn't matter what Microsoft and Sony do. They're out there talking about AR.....which considering things like the success of Pokémon go...its easy to see why they'd chase that.

    But man have I had fun just using Groov VR...which is a music equalizer for the gear VR (which uses the Occulus store front, I imagine all the Gear VR apps have PC versions anyways).

    I also think you make a $150-$200 head set that would plug into a relatively cheap box.....What if Occulus puts out a "console" type box to work with a cheaper headset. I think there's way more possibilities than we are necessarily even expecting right now.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdinred View Post
    That was nothing more than an R&D tech demo, never a "focus" for them.

    Now that leaked roadmap and "Project Fortaleza" showed that they thought AR would be on Xbox by now. I guess that ended up turning into HaloLens and turned out to not be practical for consoles.
    I honestly think that as they buried kinect, they decided to backoff of tethering themselves to gimmicks for a bit. They divorced themselves from pretty much all of that garbage; kinect was spun out from the original sku, they backed off all of the extraneous TV stuff they emphasized at launch; drm policies were reversed etc etc.

    To me, I think it was more of a policy decision than the idea that AR was a bad fit. Their new policy was pretty clearly refocused on games which was driven home with their stronger E3's in 2014 and 2015.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger3920 View Post
    I honestly think that as they buried kinect, they decided to backoff of tethering themselves to gimmicks for a bit. They divorced themselves from pretty much all of that garbage; kinect was spun out from the original sku, they backed off all of the extraneous TV stuff they emphasized at launch; drm policies were reversed etc etc.

    To me, I think it was more of a policy decision than the idea that AR was a bad fit. Their new policy was pretty clearly refocused on games which was driven home with their stronger E3's in 2014 and 2015.
    It's cheaper for them to let Oculus do the work on VR. So, they bypass that expense.

    AR can be applied to other sectors, just like VR can. However, since VR is already a market of which is being worked on, AR seems to have more opportunities for their solo control. I'm glad MS ditched that other stuff.
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  10. #25
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    MS is playing the VR game the smartest; if it works out - they have a partnership with Oculus. If it fizzles, and they are probably betting it will, they don't have another Kinect on their hands and the platform wont need to be revised.
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  11. #26
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    I'm still not sure how Oculus is going to work with the Scorpio. If it's the current unit, then will the price have dropped by next year, or will it still be $600 for the headset alone? Or is Oculus going to manufacture a cheaper, Scorpio-specific headset?

    And in terms of performance, while it will obviously provide a better experience than either a PS4, or a PS4 Pro powering PSVR, will it still be comparable to the VR experiences on PC with Vive and Oculus on high end rigs with all cylinders firing? There are a lot of technical and performance unknowns for me about how they plan to go about this.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger3920 View Post
    MS is playing the VR game the smartest; if it works out - they have a partnership with Oculus. If it fizzles, and they are probably betting it will, they don't have another Kinect on their hands and the platform wont need to be revised.
    Given how easy and quickly HTC and Valve managed to enter the market, with a product that many consider better, Microsoft could hop in quite quickly hardware wise. You know they've got stuff in skunkworks or being developed in tandem with Hololens.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoeless View Post
    I'm still not sure how Oculus is going to work with the Scorpio. If it's the current unit, then will the price have dropped by next year, or will it still be $600 for the headset alone? Or is Oculus going to manufacture a cheaper, Scorpio-specific headset?

    And in terms of performance, while it will obviously provide a better experience than either a PS4, or a PS4 Pro powering PSVR, will it still be comparable to the VR experiences on PC with Vive and Oculus on high end rigs with all cylinders firing? There are a lot of technical and performance unknowns for me about how they plan to go about this.
    Unsure on Oculus's plans. I could see them rolling out the next iteration of their hardware within the next 15 months, with a new headset being lighter and less expensive. They don't seem to be aiming for the budget experience, though, so I wouldn't think of it as chasing PSVR, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them being able to cut costs significantly and come out with a unit in the $400-$500 range, which would make PSVR a harder sell and put it in a sort of value limbo.

    I also don't think "will it perform like a Vive on a high end rig" is all that interesting a question. No, it won't. The Scorpio has a gpu slated at 6 teraflops if I recall correctly, and today's 'high end' cards are already doing 9 teraflops. "Consoles might be more optimized" and yada yada, but today's high end card - with 133% more power, will be tomorrow's middle-range card, and tomorrow's high end card will probably be 10-12 teraflops etc.

    If you're head over feet for VR and want a great experience, and cost isn't prohibitive, you're probably not looking at Scorpio and you're definitely not looking at PSVR; you will probably want a high end PC. The PSVR will be the budget/compromise option - and scorpio pairing with the oculus will probably be the entry level unit for those who want something of a higher fidelity experience. A step up to mid range from that setup would probably be Oculus again, but with a high end PC, and then at the top would be Vive. PSVR, for those really into VR, probably isn't the way to go and will likely be the janitor solution that Sony fails to support properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Averry View Post
    Given how easy and quickly HTC and Valve managed to enter the market, with a product that many consider better, Microsoft could hop in quite quickly hardware wise. You know they've got stuff in skunkworks or being developed in tandem with Hololens.
    They're probably putting in minimal effort. If there really is that low of a barrier to entry, then they're smart to sit the gimmick out until there's a compelling reason to join the fray. Right now, there's just some people out there burning a lot of money on this hoping that a market develops.
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  14. #29
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    Actually, I think MS just poached a guy from Oculus with the last couple of weeks, so they might be going it alone for Scorpio. This guy. Mark Bolas
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    Quote Originally Posted by michealo View Post
    to clarify, there's nothing inherently wrong with "imagining the possibilities" (although it can get silly).
    lowering expectations at a later date is where the scrutiny lies
    Have you heard about Ace Combat VR? I hear it's going to be goddamn amazing!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by twonunpackmule View Post
    Uncharted peaked with 2 and each one just gets worse.

    I'll say this...I actually finished 3, I couldn't bring myself to finish 4. It was so boring.

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