PS4 vs. Xbox One exclusives to date (comprehensive list, updated every 3 months) - Page 240 - High-Def Digest Forums
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  #2391  
Old 06-20-2019, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveS1138 View Post
Well, yeah, if you only want to play simple games but in that case why not save a bunch of money and use a console?


VR games aren't more complicated than non-VR games. In fact, it seems like it's usually the opposite given they tend to revolve around motion flailing.

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is a PC really worth all that extra cost to make the graphics a little prettier?
Yes. Playing a game on PS4 for me typically means lots of sharp jagged edges, an uneven frame rate that dips down into the 20s when the action picks up, and the console sounds like a hair dryer the whole time. My PC quietly hums along at a steady, smooth 60fps, using a resolution and extra AA to smooth out all the edges.

The consistency of the visuals leads to an experience that is compounding in value for me. The more time I spend playing with a smooth frame rate, the more I appreciate it, and the more disappointing it is to go back to the PS4. When I do play a game on PS4, I get used to crappy performance, until I play something on my PC. Then it's like a slap in the face and PS4 is disappointing all over again.

Caveat: I don't have a Pro, so maybe that would ease this problem a bit. But from what I've heard they don't have many games that offer a 60fps boost mode for Pro.
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  #2392  
Old 06-20-2019, 01:29 PM
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VR games aren't more complicated than non-VR games. In fact, it seems like it's usually the opposite given they tend to revolve around motion flailing.



Yes. Playing a game on PS4 for me typically means lots of sharp jagged edges, an uneven frame rate that dips down into the 20s when the action picks up, and the console sounds like a hair dryer the whole time. My PC quietly hums along at a steady, smooth 60fps, using a resolution and extra AA to smooth out all the edges.

The consistency of the visuals leads to an experience that is compounding in value for me. The more time I spend playing with a smooth frame rate, the more I appreciate it, and the more disappointing it is to go back to the PS4. When I do play a game on PS4, I get used to crappy performance, until I play something on my PC. Then it's like a slap in the face and PS4 is disappointing all over again.

Caveat: I don't have a Pro, so maybe that would ease this problem a bit. But from what I've heard they don't have many games that offer a 60fps boost mode for Pro.

Borderlands 2 runs pretty much perfectly even on the limited PSVR hardware. Not sure how much more complexity you are looking for in games

and yes im sure frame rate is a little better than a base PS4 on a PC whoís graphic card alone probably costs 2-3 times the price of the PS4.
And not to be needlessly argumentative. If Frame rate is a deal breaker for you and you have all that extra disposable money then absolutely I can see why you would go for PC. Itís just never been an issue for me vs the ease of use of console. Especially given the cost vs performance ratio. But hey. I spent all that extra money for a better VR experience than PSVR could offer so clearly no problem with people spending extra for the things they consider important
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  #2393  
Old 06-20-2019, 01:53 PM
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If ray-tracing is the defining graphical feature for next gen, then system power absolutely matters.. maybe not TF vs. TF, considering there may be dedicated RT hardware. I know it's good for developers, but I kind of like the systems having different strengths and weakness, instead of being mostly the same.
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  #2394  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:02 PM
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I don't see Ray Tracing being a big thing next generation. I think people are paying lip-service to it right now, the same way they paid lip-service to 3D a few years ago. It's the thing that's being pushed right now, so people are playing along. The hardware just isn't ready for it, and it needs several generations of evolution before it would make sense in a console.

If it gets included, I don't think it would be used much - just like 3D.
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  #2395  
Old 06-20-2019, 03:00 PM
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Ray Tracing is going to be the defining feature for PC gaming. It's going to escalate a lot faster than you realize. Especially once AMD supports it. It's going to define the difference between consoles and PC gaming. I think you'll see RT in smaller indie titles more and more. And, the feature creep into bigger titles as the tentpole draw. This idea it's like "3D displays" is incredibly dismissive. Yes, RT is expensive. Yes, it's a resource hog. No, it's not going away.

Being dismissive of the tech just comes off as jealously because it's expensive. Sure, we can argue that Nvidia is completely overcharging for the particular cards in question. However, that's all going to get resolved over time as new and new hardware comes out. The prices will fall and this will be mainstreamed.

Couple this with the adoption of standardized HDR support. Image quality is going to be astounding. PC gaming is going to get a small boon from this. As the divide of "elite image quality" is going to at least carry until the next hardware revisions. I think both PS5 and Xbox 3 will launch with mild support. Mostly in smaller titles and indies. Then, their 18 month refresh will feature a bigger push for it and I imagine a couple of games will receive patches showcasing the tech.

This is all standard stuff. PC carries the weight of pushing new tech. Consoles benefit over time as the cost for the tech goes down.
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  #2396  
Old 06-20-2019, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveS1138 View Post


You guys all seem to have very different experiences with PC gaming than I do


Hah, for the most part - it does sound like two different worlds on this board. I just really don't run into very many issues (issues definitely do exist, and more of them are on the side of the PC wall and always will be because consoles are largely standardized, I just don't run into much hassle these days and if I did, I'd be pissed because I don't have time for it).

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when I got the Oculus Rift I had months of issues where the sensors would lose tracking stability every time Oculus updated their software (very often). I even went to the trouble of finding the specific USB card that Oculus recommend you plug the sensors into. Still didnít help.
Eventually fixed it after finding an obscure forum post where somebody found out the recommended card doesnít work properly if you use the driver that comes with the card, you have to use it with a generic Microsoft driver.
Ugh, that's no fun. That said, it does sound like people have similar issues with PSVR losing sync etc - so peripherals are sort of what they are.
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  #2397  
Old 06-20-2019, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by twonunpackmule View Post
Ray Tracing is going to be the defining feature for PC gaming. It's going to escalate a lot faster than you realize. Especially once AMD supports it. It's going to define the difference between consoles and PC gaming. I think you'll see RT in smaller indie titles more and more. And, the feature creep into bigger titles as the tentpole draw. This idea it's like "3D displays" is incredibly dismissive. Yes, RT is expensive. Yes, it's a resource hog. No, it's not going away.
I agree it's the future of game design, unlike how 3D was just a gimmick. I just don't think it's something we're going to see adopted heavily on the next set of consoles given dev kits are out there now and the boxes are shipping in 18 months. Maybe the spatial audio stuff they've talked about with the new Modern Warfare that uses some Ray Tracing elements, but not the reflections stuff that was so taxing it crippled performance on Battlefield. The new consoles seem to be optimized for speed with their SSD tech, which is where they're spending their performance dollars.

Ray Tracing on PC? That just depends on:
  1. How quickly AMD and Nvidia can get the costs down on the cards. RTX is selling poorly as it is.
  2. How quickly they can get the performance up - $1200 for a card that can only run Ray Traced games at 1080p is unacceptable.
  3. How quickly developers make meaningful use of it. It needs to be a "wow" factor to become important enough to justify the additional work and expense.
From what I've seen so far, most PC players are completely apathetic towards Ray Tracing, with some outright hostile. It's the reason given for the sky high cost of video cards, and the real-world impact on gaming has been about as important as a mouse fart. There's a lot of work to do on all three of those fronts before it becomes the new standard on PC, and we all know consoles lag PC trends by a few years. Maybe PlayStation 6 games will have meaningful Ray Traced lighting effects that really stand out, but I don't think we'll see this on PS5 games.
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  #2398  
Old 06-20-2019, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by RM View Post
I agree it's the future of game design, unlike how 3D was just a gimmick. I just don't think it's something we're going to see adopted heavily on the next set of consoles given dev kits are out there now and the boxes are shipping in 18 months. Maybe the spatial audio stuff they've talked about with the new Modern Warfare that uses some Ray Tracing elements, but not the reflections stuff that was so taxing it crippled performance on Battlefield. The new consoles seem to be optimized for speed with their SSD tech, which is where they're spending their performance dollars.

Ray Tracing on PC? That just depends on:
  1. How quickly AMD and Nvidia can get the costs down on the cards. RTX is selling poorly as it is.
  2. How quickly they can get the performance up - $1200 for a card that can only run Ray Traced games at 1080p is unacceptable.
  3. How quickly developers make meaningful use of it. It needs to be a "wow" factor to become important enough to justify the additional work and expense.
From what I've seen so far, most PC players are completely apathetic towards Ray Tracing, with some outright hostile. It's the reason given for the sky high cost of video cards, and the real-world impact on gaming has been about as important as a mouse fart. There's a lot of work to do on all three of those fronts before it becomes the new standard on PC, and we all know consoles lag PC trends by a few years. Maybe PlayStation 6 games will have meaningful Ray Traced lighting effects that really stand out, but I don't think we'll see this on PS5 games.
I agree with most of your points, and this fleshing out comes off as less dismissive. Though, I'd say it's still not correct to compare it to 3D. 3D asked a lot out of people to actually use it. Especially on PC. VR does too...but it's bit simpler since it's tied to the hardware itself. Doesn't require a separate display (minus the hardware) and what have you.

I think we'll see RT in smaller indie titles. Things where you wouldn't think make an improvement. I can't remember the source of the article (i'll look for it later) but someone basically stated that indies are probably going to drive RT for awhile. Which is fine.

I see the hardware issue being similar to a post 9700 Pro world. Where, that card line was such a leap, that more and more demanding games started to come out. To the point where it sort of capped at the 7800GTX 512mb+. Took a few GPU cycles to iron itself out. However, you had Far Cry demanding more. Then, it wouldn't be that much longer until Crysis landed and brought things to their knees.

So, I see RT in the same light. Sure, it's a bummer that it's so isolated to the market of expensive GPUs. It's also a bummer that not much has really come out yet. Though, I think the promise is there and they are coming. It's making hardware exciting again. Even if a silly old game like Quake 2 seems to be the biggest deal right now. I'm kinda excited about older titles getting RT support. I would LOVE to replay Half Life 2 with it.

Also, where's WellInformed in all this RT talk? I mean, the PS3 could do it...why not the PS5? HAHAHA!

Though, I do think we'll see small indie releases use RT in both consoles.
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  #2399  
Old 06-20-2019, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Badger3920 View Post
Hah, for the most part - it does sound like two different worlds on this board. I just really don't run into very many issues (issues definitely do exist, and more of them are on the side of the PC wall and always will be because consoles are largely standardized, I just don't run into much hassle these days and if I did, I'd be pissed because I don't have time for it).



Ugh, that's no fun. That said, it does sound like people have similar issues with PSVR losing sync etc - so peripherals are sort of what they are.
With PSVR it's pretty ,uch more just an issue of the hardware limitation. Using a camera to track a large coloured ball just doesn't give the accuracy that the PC VR headsets get from their dedicated sensors. It still works fine most of the time but that actually kind of makes it more noticable when it does have issues.

And yes it's very much a timing issue and peripheral issue with me and PC gaming. I just don't have time to play around getting games to run properly and since my PC gaming is exclusively Project Cars (still having issues with the Thrustmaster wheel from time to time, Oculus Rift (the sensors were a PITA for months) or Elite Dangerous (actually this one just works flawlessly )

When I want to game I'm going to get a couple of hours at best so I just need it to work.

It's actually another reason why the Oculus Quest is such an amazing gaming device for me at the moment. You just put it on your head and within about 20 seconds you're into the game and everything is just working. A good 45 min workout with Beat Saber and it's just a flawless experience No wires to get tangled in, Great gaming experiences seconds away, amazing looking screen......I take it with me in the car so I can watch movies in 3D whilst my daughter is at swim......it's just perfect
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  #2400  
Old 06-20-2019, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by twonunpackmule View Post
Though, I do think we'll see small indie releases use RT in both consoles.
All I know for sure is that seeing what ray tracing could do even for a game like Minecraft blew me away.

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