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Old 01-13-2008, 10:17 AM
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Default htpc vista 64 or vista 32

I'm goan put Vista on my htpc to replace XP mcs. Should i go 64 bit or stay at 32bit. hardware specs. AMD opt 165 2gb ram hd2600xt. I am also getting new tv cards to replace theater550pro. I have cable. any good cards recomended. thanks for any input!!
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:29 AM
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Go with 4GB of RAM.
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:51 AM
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From my own experience, the 64-bit version of Vista is faster and the 32-bit emulation for Win32 programs works really well. Get the 64-bit so you can get the most out of your CPU.

Also, get 4GB of ram. It may seem like a bit of overkill, but ram is dirt-cheap until DDR3 becomes more prevalent and Vista is designed to use available ram to make itself run better and faster. You are also future-proofing yourself.
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Old 01-13-2008, 02:42 PM
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XP.........
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Old 01-13-2008, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickengas View Post
XP.........
I would have said that even 6 months ago, but Vista's driver (and overall) support has gotten a lot better and service pack 1 is already in beta for release in the next few months. People resisted change when XP, ME, 2000, & 98 came out as well. People will always resist change. Having compared Vista & XP, I can no longer see any compelling reasons to stay with XP. Vista offers some great new enhancements with the user-interface, security, productivity, media-center, etc. In my opinion, Vista is much better then XP and I was one of the people telling others to stay with XP when Vista first came out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature..._Windows_Vista
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Old 01-13-2008, 05:24 PM
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MythTV

Seriously, SP1 is just being put out because of all the people that kept saying "wait for SP1" it honestly has no REAL significance or improvements. All tests have shown this. The file move/copy/delete issues are all still there. The biggest issue for Vista is the DRM crap forced on it by Hollywood. XP works, it works well, it requires less hardware, unless you are planning on playing DX10 only games, Vista is useless. You will get more for less with XP any day of the week. Give Mythbuntu a shot, it's Ubuntu with MythTV already installed. It's free, what have you got to loose?

http://apcmag.com/5049/10_reasons_not_to_get_vista

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...ista_cost.html
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by rmoody View Post
MythTV

Seriously, SP1 is just being put out because of all the people that kept saying "wait for SP1" it honestly has no REAL significance or improvements. All tests have shown this. The file move/copy/delete issues are all still there. The biggest issue for Vista is the DRM crap forced on it by Hollywood. XP works, it works well, it requires less hardware, unless you are planning on playing DX10 only games, Vista is useless. You will get more for less with XP any day of the week. Give Mythbuntu a shot, it's Ubuntu with MythTV already installed. It's free, what have you got to loose?

http://apcmag.com/5049/10_reasons_not_to_get_vista

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...ista_cost.html
Hmmm....ten reasons not to get Vista:

Quote:
1. You don't actually need it -- No, think about this. Vista doesn't do anything you can't already do with XP. About the only significant shift requiring Vista is DirextX10, but as no titles support it yet and, according to John Carmack (the godfather of modern gaming) there's no need to yet either.
In my opinion, DX10 is very significant and there are games coming out that use it. This argument is out of date. I also like the built-in media center which is better, in my opinion, to what XP offers. Vista's user-interface is also more elegant and convenient.
Quote:
2. Cost $$ -- It's so blindingly obvious, most people will be blinded to it. You already have XP, and alternatives like Linux are free. If you really want to throw money away, go give it to a local charity.
Cost......Anyone who thinks Vista is expensive does not know where to shop.

Windows Vista- $69.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116153
Quote:
3. On that note, it's outrageously overpriced -- at least in Australia. As revealed in the current APC, even after taking into account the profit margin Microsoft Australia previously applied to XP (as well as exchange rates, as you would expect), Australians are paying hundreds of dollars more for their copies than in the US. In fact, it's cheaper for Australians to buy Vista direct by mail order from the States. If you think Microsoft Australia is reaming us, vote with your wallet.
This really has no relevance to me. Not sure why this is supposed to stop me from buying Vista....

Quote:
4. Upgrading hardware -- XP was demanding at release, but Vista more so. If you have an older machine that struggles with XP at the best of times, Vista is out of your ballpark unless you spend even more money to upgrade. If this is you, see point 1.
This is the same tired, old argument they use when any new OS comes out. Technology moves on, and so should you.

Quote:
5. Driver support -- Key hardware like video and sound is crippled at the moment -- while Nvidia is working furiously to get a stable driver for the 8800 out by the 30th, there's still no SLI support for any of the Nvidia range. And thanks to the removal of hardware accelerated 3D sound in Vista, Creative's popular DirectSound based EAX no longer works at all, muting this feature for just about all gaming titles on the market today. Creative is in the process of coding a layer for its drivers to translate EAX calls to the OpenAL API which is seperate from Vista, but going by past experience with Creative drivers we won't see these any time soon.
This argument is out of date. Driver support has gotten much better over the past year.

Quote:
6. Applications that don't work -- there's been plenty of coverage about applications that won't work without a vendor update. These include anti-virus, backup and security software such as those from Symantec, Sophos and ilk; CD and DVD burning tools like the suite from Nero need updated versions to work; and even basic disk management and partitioning tools such as Paragon's Hard Disk Manager are awaiting an update for Vista to be compatible. How many more will fail as Vista enters mainstream? Even Firefox has issues with Vista.
Another out of date argument. Support has gotten much better over the last year. This happens any time a new OS comes out.

Quote:
7. It's a big fat target -- with a new and untested in the global wild architecture, virus and malware authors are going to work overtime exploiting the holes Microsoft missed. In fact it's already happening. Loath though I am to use the word 'security' and 'Windows' in the same sentence, Windows XP has at least been patched to the hilt and can be used with a plethora of reasonably effective security tools that work now, without waiting for an update down the track.
This is a pretty stupid argument. Vista went through unprecedented beta testing and was built from the ground-up with security in mind. XP is less secure then Vista and whoever wrote this needs to do a little more research. XP is a bigger "target" then Vista.

Quote:
8. UAC -- Oh yes, the Microsoft solution for an operating system where mutli-user was an afterthought. Sure, you can disable it, but the OS then makes it clear then that the onus is on the user for any damaging programs that got to run with permissions, rather than with Windows in the first place. If you do have it on, it is going to annoy the hell out of you. It pops up far too frequently, and even on a fast PC, the UAC screen takes too long to come up and disappear.
The UAC can easily be disabled with no problems. This is another silly argument.

Quote:
9. DRM -- And to a lesser degree TPM -- were made for the RIAAs and MPAAs of this world, and the even tighter integration of copy protection mechanisms and 'Windows Rights Management' into vista are nothing more than a liability to you, the user. This ComputerWorld piece says is succinctly: 'it's hard to sing the praises of technology designed to make life harder for its users.' As for TPM, this short animated video shows just how far the rabbit hole goes. And to think you pay for the privilege of having the use of media you purchased and own dictated by third parties, even on your own system.
DRM is a fact of life, just look at Blu-ray (and to a similar extent HD DVD). This is more of an argument against DRM in general, not specifically Vista.

Quote:
10. The draconian license -- somehow, Microsoft has forgotten that it built its business from products that empowered its customers, not hampered them. Of course, we forget that Microsoft's customers aren't you and I, afterall (see point 9). Aside from the backward thinking that is licensing, and not actually owning, your software new terms with Vista include being able to transfer the license only once; half the limit compared to XP for Home Basic and Premium on how many machines can connect to yours for sharing, printing and accessing the Internet; limits on the number of devices that can use Vista's Media Center features; activation and validation governing your ability to upgrade hardware and use Windows itself; and outlawing the use of Home Basic and Premium with virtualisation software, and Ultimate only if DRM enabled content and applications aren't used. But then again, who reads these anyway?
For most people this will never be an issue. This guy just has to find something to complain about.

----------------------

Here is a great rebuttal by someone else who disagreed with the link you posted:


Quote:
APCMag has published ‘Ten Reasons Not to Get Vista‘, but it seems as if the author has never truly tried out Vista himself. I have been using it for months (years, even) and I thoroughly disagree with many of the ten reasons.

Vista doesn’t do anything you can’t already do with XP.

Can I change the volume on a per-application basis in Windows XP? Do I have integrated system-wide search in Windows XP? Can I set the language on a per-user basis in Windows XP? Does Windows XP have per-file emails and contacts? Does Windows XP have a photo organiser application (the fact that it sucks compared to iPhoto and especially Picasa2 is irrelevant)? Does Windows XP have an up-to-date, modern look? Does Windows XP have all those under-the-hood improvements like address space layout randomisation, a new networking stack, and so on?

I could go on for hours.

You already have XP, and alternatives like Linux are free.


Good point. However, 95% of the world will get Vista not by retail, but via OEM. And when it comes via OEM, people don’t experience it as “paying for” (even though they obviously do).

It’s outrageously overpriced

Yes, no doubt about it. However, as said above, most people will get Vista via OEM.

XP was demanding at release, but Vista more so.

Vista most certainly is demanding. However, on my hardware (two computers), Vista with Aero performs better than i.e. Ubuntu or OpenSUSE with Beryl. On top of that, Aero is a hell of a lot more stable than Beryl. The only operating system which (so far) has done very well on older hardware is Mac OS X. Too bad that you actually need to buy a new computer anyway if you want to upgrade from Windows XP to Mac OS X.

This is a typical ‘your mileage may vary’. Vista is demanding on resources, no doubt, but not as bad as some make it out to be.

Key hardware like video and sound is crippled at the moment.

Yes. This is usually the case when an operating system has seen massive internal restructuring, like new frameworks for graphics and audio.

There’s been plenty of coverage about applications that won’t work without a vendor update.

Yet, other than Nero, I have not yet encountered a single application that refused to work on Windows Vista. Obviously there are some that will break, but again, when you massively restructure your platform, this is to be expected.

If you use Windows for mission critical environments (dot dot dot), you should wait until SP1 or maybe even SP2 anyway. That’s called common sense.

It’s a big fat target - with a new and untested in the global wild architecture

This one is kind of weird, as the author claims Vista has nothing to offer over XP - yet he does recognise it has a ‘new and untested’ architecture. Contradictio?

The point he makes is valid, though. But as with the above, mission critical environments should wait anyway.

UAC - Oh yes, the Microsoft solution for an operating system where mutli-user was an afterthought.

Multiuser an afterthought in Windows NT? Does the author even have the slightest understanding of what NT is and where it came from? NT has been designed from the ground up with multiuser in mind, and I do not think Dave Cuttler would like it that NT’s multiuser was called an ‘afterthought’. Statements like this seriously hurt the author’s credibility. On the 9x series- yes, multiuser was an afterthought there- but on NT?

As for UAC, it’s not even half as annoying as some make it out to be. I do not find it any more annoying than sudo, and it is more advanced than Mac OS X’ version. Security comes at a price.

DRM

I have never come into contact with DRM (in a way that it hindered me, in any case), because I use a - how old-fashioned - CD player and a record player to play my music (I actually buy albums in a real store, and I have a huge collection of vinyl albums as well) and I play my DVDs on my stand-alone DVD player.

The problem is definitely there, though, and in all honesty I have too little experience with it to talk about it.

The draconian license

In this section, the author spreads some misinformation (like the license transfer he mentions, which has been changed by Microsoft months ago), so it is pretty difficult to correctly rebut it. Microsoft has some darn restrictive licenses, and I do not think Vista is an exception.

The author has failed to mention the real weaknesses of Windows Vista, such as the idiotic amount of different editions or the simple fact that Microsoft’s obsession with backwards compatibility is hindering its development.

Instead, the author decided to just rehash the average anti-MS zealot’s points, without actually trying out Vista himself.
http://cogscanthink.blogsome.com/2007/01/21/538/

----------------------

I see your ten reasons not to get Vista and raise you ten reasons to get Vista:

Quote:
1. UI built for the era of video and digital photography
It's not actually Microsoft's key selling point, but the thing that everyone will probably find the most useful about Vista is that photos, videos and music are not treated the same as Word documents any more. When you open a folder of photos, they come up as they'd appear in Google Picasa or Apple iPhoto. There's inbuilt basic photo editing. Music folders come up in columns of ID3 tags, a bit like iTunes. Finally, you don't have to rely so much on third party apps to work with your files.



2. Image-based install
PC enthusiasts spend a lot of time installing and reinstalling Windows for their own and other people's PCs. The Vista DVD is actually a pre-installed version of the OS in a compressed form, making it substantially quicker to install. It's also much easier to customise for unprompted installation with the correct defaults, and you can even install your own software automatically at the time Vista is installed - like slipstreaming service packs but on steroids. Read more...



3. Up-to-date driver base and better driver handling on installation
Enjoy the just-baked driverbase while it lasts (19,500 drivers large). If you do need to use a special disk driver during installation in the future it won't have to be on floppy disk. Now you can use a USB memory key or CD. Also, Microsoft is now making much greater use of Windows Update for provision of drivers that aren't present in the Windows RTM driver base. Windows Chief Jim Allchin talks about it here.



4. Desktop search and search folders built in
Yes, you could already get umpteen desktop search apps including Windows Desktop Search from Microsoft for XP, but you can't underestimate the importance of it being installed on every single Vista PC. Now when your mum rings saying she's lost a document she's been working on all day you can just direct her to the start menu. Also, desktop search folders are handy for finding stuff you haven't necessarily got stored in one folder but that is useful to gather together from time to time (e.g. documents with "tax, invoice or receipt" in them).



5. Sleep mode that actually works.
It's a small thing, but makes a big difference: Vista has finally caught up to operating systems that can sleep near instantly and wake up reliably, in a couple of seconds. Read more...



6. Rock-solid laptop encryption
The data on your laptop is worth a hell of a lot to an identity thief. Vista's "Bitlocker" encryption (only in Enterprise and Ultimate versions) does heavy-duty, full-drive encryption, so you can be certain that unless a thief has your password there's simply no way they're going to get in. Read more...



7. Better file navigation
Vista now has some time-saving features like favourite folders displayed in the left column of every Explorer window, as well as "breadcrumbed" folder lists allowing you to quickly jump backward and forward through a path. Sure, these should have been put into Windows years ago, but at least they're here now.



8. Inbuilt undelete
Or, depending on how you look at it, inbuilt rolling backup. Every time you make a change to a file or delete it, Windows keeps the previous version. As a result, the "oh [email protected]#$ I just overwrote my entire PhD with Document1" feeling can be quickly assuaged. Read more...



9. DirectX10
OK, this isn't so much a benefit as your hand being forced: DirectX 10 will never be made for XP, and a raft of games have already been announced ‘exclusively' for 10. Admittedly it does take gaming graphics to the next level, but it's very much tied to Vista.



10. Face it, you have no choice
When Microsoft brings out a major renovation to Windows, you can choose to ignore it for a year or two, but then the device drivers start drying up for older versions of Windows, your friends start asking questions about their new PC that you can't answer, and even if you use Linux, you'll inevitably need familiarity with Microsoft's latest interoperability blockers. Face it: your arse belongs to Redmond.

http://apcmag.com/5082/10_reasons_you_should_get_vista


Apple thought Vista was so good they stole some of it's features for Leopard:

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase...rd_preview.asp
http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=11979
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=505

BTW, I have Ubuntu and it's a great little OS, but it is not nearly as powerful as Vista. That is a fact.

http://stonedeadparrot.blogspot.com/...ntu-sucks.html
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QKw-KwnSitE
http://www.informit.com/articles/art...?p=667418&rl=1

Last edited by james; 01-13-2008 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:50 AM
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@James,

WOW, that may be the worlds longest reply... Um, Congratulations? LOL...

Oh, and I'm running Vista x64 and everything seems to work well for me, the only realy issues I've had is with an external hard drive that seems to stop working sometimes when updates come out (I just have to reinstall drivers). I was surprised that my hd tuner card (visiontek hd 650) worked flawlessly the first time - I was actually expecting it to cause some grief after reading so many anti-vista posts. Overall I've been happy so far though.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnorth_12 View Post
@James,

WOW, that may be the worlds longest reply... Um, Congratulations? LOL...
Go big, or go home.
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