Bram Strokers Dracula Regarding bad Reviews - High-Def Digest Forums
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-30-2007, 04:38 AM
Helo's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 453
Default Bram Strokers Dracula Regarding bad Reviews

This is from paidgeek, posted on the news page at blu-ray.com. I thought I'd post it as there seems to be confusion & dissappointment regarding the Blu release of the film.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=541

"With only a few days left until the much anticipated Blu-ray release of 'Bram Stoker's Dracula', the title is already causing confusion amongst the few lucky enough to get advanced copies. Early reviews have been mixed, and the web forums have erupted in consumer backlash, claiming Sony has destroyed the transfer. Thankfully, one of our Insiders was able to get the real story: this Blu-ray release reflects the wishes of director Francis Ford Coppola.
The divide between those who thought the presentation was absolutely stunning and those who think its an utter abomination is blatantly clear. Those who have indicated they like the presentation are viewing the title on its own merits. Those who have criticized the transfer are comparing it to the Superbit DVD release, and are missing some crucial information about development of this Blu-ray.

The masters used for the Superbit DVD release were not approved by Mr. Coppola, while the Blu-ray masters were
The color correction on the DVD was not done by direction of Mr. Coppola
For the latest master, a representative from Zoetrope was charged with checking the color correction to match the wishes of Mr. Coppola
The Blu-ray release was not accomplished quickly; it was carefully planned with full cooperation of Zoetrope
So when you sit down to watch this Blu-ray on Tuesday, remember that you are watching the absolute best video release of 'Bram Stoker's Dracula' ever created, and that it is exactly as the director intended. Any comparisons to previous video releases are invalid, as this release was approved by Mr. Coppola and his team at Zoetrope.
We thank Sony Pictures for the extensive amount of work they do, and continue to do, in order to ensure that Blu-ray owners receive the absolute best versions of classic films on Blu-ray. They have gone to great lengths to get director participation on high-profile Blu-ray releases, and we applaud them for all their hard work."
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-30-2007, 08:33 AM
Spideybat's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,852
Default

Then Mr. Coppola has lost his mind once again. If you recall, he had a nervous breakdown during the filming of Apocalypse Now. Hence the movie Heart Of Darkness. I think the statement above is utter BS.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-30-2007, 08:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 418
Default

This statement is akin to propaganda : "here's your cake, eat it, don't ask any questions, if you are not happy, then go away !". I hope the lack of sales of this set will send the message. This BR is absolutely the worst travesty ever done to the movie, and I'll get the Superbit, which soon be worth more than the new BR on ebay, in order to have somewhere a print of the movie that looks like it was originally.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-30-2007, 08:48 AM
Spideybat's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,852
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdvision View Post
This statement is akin to propaganda : "here's your cake, eat it, don't ask any questions, if you are not happy, then go away !". I hope the lack of sales of this set will send the message. This BR is absolutely the worst travesty ever done to the movie, and I'll get the Superbit, which soon be worth more than the new BR on ebay, in order to have somewhere a print of the movie that looks like it was originally.
Here's a link to the Superbit at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Bram-Stokers-D...1151636&sr=1-4 I agree with your post.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-30-2007, 09:28 AM
irrob's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,268
Default

Is it that bad?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-30-2007, 06:14 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 241
Default

OK. NOW we're starting to get somewhere!

I have a thread going at HTF where someone pasted in paidgeeks response to this whole potential debacle.


"There are a few things that those critical of the latest Dracula transfer should know.

1. The new transfer was supervised. This means that a representative from Zoetrope was charged we checking the color correction to make sure it met with the intentions of Mr. Coppola.

2. The new transfer and color correction were not done hastily. This title was carefully planned for BD and we were given the full cooperation of Zoetrope to get it done right.

3. The masters used for the DVD versions of this title were not endorsed by Mr. Coppola, the BD version is. The color correction on the DVD releases was not what Mr. Coppola wanted, regardless of the fact that the elevated brightness in some scenes on the DVD can reveal something not seen on the BD.

4. The answer print of the film is darker than the Blu-ray (answer prints are the approved color timed result that release prints are supposed to match).

5. Mr. Coppola intentionally shunned digital special effects techniques on this film in order to get a result that had the look of the classic horror films. The optical effects lead to some dirt and softening of the master.

A great deal of time and effort went into the remastering of this film, so it is more than a little disappointing that fans would not just second guess the wishes of the person that made the film, but would judge some of the work as careless or incorrect? From what I have read on the forum, the issue seems to stem from the darkening or color adjustment of a few scenes that leaves the viewer with less discernable picture information than was visible on the earlier unapproved release. If your display is properly calibrated, then rest assured that there is information in the video on most titles that you are not seeing. It is your choice if you want to turn up brightness to reveal some dark detail that is not necessarily supposed to be revealed.

I suspect that if we originally released a Dracula with a darker image, then released the Blu-ray with a brighter one, then perhaps these issues would not have been raised. Just remember that the film is supposed to set a mood and tell a story, not dazzle you with the picture details in the shots with a darkened room.
__________________
SPE Blu-ray insider "



Fine. So ok. Never mind that the new transfer looks too dark, flat, washed out with SDdvd level detail. Never mind that.
I still thought well, how come all these years if the DVDs were SO WAY off the mark from the film hadn't anyone ever brought it up?!?!?

So, after I asked this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack


The timestamp for the scene is 34:31.

34 minutes, 31 seconds.

Vlad's head is buish white on the SBdvd. Green on the BD.

I am very curious what color his head is in the "coppolla approved" laserdisc transfer.
If it's the sickly green, that matches the color of the mist he turns into later when he mauls Renfield and sneaks into Mina's room, than cool, makes sense and is consistant.

BD





If it's the bluish white like this in the SB dvd, than all bets are off as to what "approved" means in this case. "approved" when? Then or now...??????

Sb dvd







a fellow HTF member who has the COPPOLLA APPROVED TRANSFER laserdisc decided to see how it looked in the infamous Dracula is green in the BD but bluish white in the DVD shot and guess what he saw...


Quote:
Originally Posted by John H Ross
It's a tad tricky to find 34:31 exactly due to these being CAV laserdiscs and having the timer start from 0:00 again at the start of the second side, but I think this moment comes around the "get your hands off him, he belongs to me" scene.

In which case there is absolutely no green anywhere near Oldman's hair. A quick scan around various other Oldman shots in the same general vicinity also show no signs of green.

Hmmmmmm.....




Quote:
Originally Posted by John H Ross
Okay, I just checked out that PRECISE frame and his hair is completely white. It's exactly like the SB DVD scan that you posted.

And when you watch the whole scene there's no logical reason why it should be anything else.

Interestingly, the laserdisc jacket clearly states "This special laserdisc edition of Bram Stoker's Dracula has been made possible through the generous participation of Francis Ford Coppola and Roman Coppola".

One more time...?


Quote:
Originally Posted by John H Ross
Okay, I just checked out that PRECISE frame and his hair is completely white. It's exactly like the SB DVD scan that you posted.


EXACTLY.

So? What gives..?!?!?
Is this what Coppolla wanted?

I agree, it is possible.
But that's exactly what Lucas has always said, Star Wars, despite all the work and effort that these amazingly talented artists did was not what he wanted. So, the redux.
Now this. Granted it's not nearly as dramatic but when you change the colors in a scene from blue to green, that's a pretty noticeable change. It's also jarring to everyone who got used to and watched the earlier version first for years.
I would expect a bit more of an explanation then both transfers had Coppolla's approval yet end up looking dramatically different.
Well, then I will just state that I preferred Coppolla's ORIGINAL approved version of the film. Many others probably feel the same.
So if indeed Coppolla himself was involved, ( and I have a feeling he really wasn't very hands on as his wine business takes up most of his time as he even admits in his new commentary track) this is what he wants it to look like NOW.
Fine. Many artists redo, alter their work. But for paidgeek to say that the dvds didn't look right and the BD does when it seems maybe after all this spin, the dvds might look ALOT more like the LD which he DID approve strikes me as a bit odd. This does not compute.

And yes, he can do whatever he wants. It IS his film.
Fine. But it's now DIFFERENT looking. ALOT different looking. So just admit that and don't try and spin it like, "Oh, the DVDs were WAY off and this is the correct way it SHOULD look."
Well, then what happened to the "COPPOLLA APPROVED LASERDISC" transfer? That was wrong too? And the theatrical prints? As I said before. I saw it at a revival at MOMA (35mm print) and it certainly didn't have some scenes so desaturated that they almost looked black and white!
And bottom line. It doesn't matter HOW much time and effort they put to this re-envisioning, the end result looks BAD. Virtually everybody has said so who has seen the BD disc. Including highdefdigest and Chad at Hometheaterspot.
Isn't it MAYBE just possible that this was done poorly? Isn't it? Just because they spent time and effort on it and it's in HD doesn't mean they did a fabulous job. Bad transfers happen all the time. And fine. Maybe it's just a bad transfer. But these spin efforts really do just desperately sound like spin because maybe, just maybe after the whole The fifth element on BD fiasco where they had to redo the transfer and offer an exchange, they just don't want to go through that again or spend the dough.
If Coppolla personally supervised this, it would be admitted. Hell, they'd use that in the press release and it would be mentioned on the packaging. It's not. A representative from Zoetrope means nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-30-2007, 06:14 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 241
Default

More interesting stuff from HTF


Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
According to this, the transfer was done in house at American Zoetrope.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...rs_Dracula/847

Doug

Yep, that's what I thought earlier. So why the conflicting info? Ron wrote...
"This transfer was completed last year and was overseen by a
representative of Zoetrope along with Sony's best transfer people."

Stating a representative from Zoetrope was involved but TOP Sony guys did the BD..?!?!? That doesn't sound like it was done in house at Zoetrope. It also doesn't sound like Coppolla himself was involved. A representative conveying the wishes of Coppolla in regards to the new transfer? Oooof. ALOT of room here for error IMHO. Especially if the LD tranfer actually WAS supervised by Coppolla and not just a "representative". Guess what? They look VERY different. So? Which one is more accurate? A tranfer ACTUALLY supervised by Coppolla at a time much closer to the making of the film? Or a new transfer done 15 years later that "a representative from Zoetrope helped oversee...?" hmmmmm..... Doesn't take much thinking here.
As far as I know, since it has NOT been stated that Coppolla himself approved the new BD transfer, only a "representative" from a company that is not even his primary business anymore, (by his own admission on the commentary!) then all I can conclude is until I hear different, the only known, accurate approved transfer of "Bram Stoker's Dracula" is the Criterion Laserdisc.
If it looks THAT much different from the new BD transfer (and now more and more looks like it more closely resembles the DVD transfers) then I'm sorry, the BD is NOT the definitive version in my opinion.

On one hand, approved by Coppolla transfer. LD

Other hand, new BD "overseen" by a rep from Zoetrope. By most accounts, looks pretty bad and different from the film that most remember.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-30-2007, 06:32 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 445
Default

Great posts. Looks like I won't be buying this title, AGAIN. I think the SB has alot of scratches on it(the print), but it'll suffice.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-30-2007, 07:12 PM
Spideybat's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,852
Default

Dave, great info. I totally agree with you. I saw the film during it's theatrical run and owned the "approved" laserdisc. So you are quite right, this does not compute. Keep up the good work!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-30-2007, 08:06 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 241
Default

thanks. and yet interestingly, I bring this up over at Blu Ray.com and suddenly, I am "bitching about this all over the internet" and "seeking attention" for myself. All the critics who reviewed it are off. Peter Bracke is an "Hddvd Shill"....

It's just too funny...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'Bram Stoker's Dracula: Supreme Cinema Series' & '(Limited Edition)' - HDD Reviews Attebery Blu-ray Software General Discussion 42 10-08-2015 04:04 PM
Bram Stoker's Dracula hits BD October 2 zombieflanders Blu-ray Software General Discussion 48 08-05-2015 10:58 AM
Bram Stokers Dracula Monty HD High Definition Smackdown 28 09-19-2007 04:54 PM
Bram Stoker's Dracula on HD soon? Arnie HD DVD Software General Discussion 1 09-04-2007 02:01 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off