'The Polar Express - 3D' - High-Def Digest Review - High-Def Digest Forums
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:14 PM
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Default 'The Polar Express - 3D' - High-Def Digest Review

E has reviewed 'The Polar Express - 3D.' He says this is the best way to see this movie in 3D. Read his review for all the multi-dimensional details!

Full review here:
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/4059...express3d.html
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:48 PM
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I think the author missed the point of the movie. The main point of the movie is to "believe". Not in any religious representation of Christmas, however; this thoroughly secularized view of the holiday is primarily about believing in Santa. That's the whole point of the sleigh bell, and whether or not each individual is able to hear it ring. Secondarily, the movie is about friendship - which the three main protagonist children attain. The aspect of presents is tertiary, and is only intended to support the two main points of the movie. Personally, I believe the message is uninspiring, although I enjoy the ride nonetheless.

With regard to the technical aspects of the movie, I assume that this movie was converted from 2D into 3D rather than produced as a 3D movie. There are times, as the reviewer noted, where the 3D effect goes awry, especially when foreground objects oddly extend deeper into the background than they should (most visible around the edges of people's heads in various scenes), and when background elements bleed into the foreground, forming a strange halo around foreground objects (most noticeable to me in the scenes in the North Pole city center around the conductor's head). I had hoped that Polar Express had been created as a 3D movie, but the 3D aberrations I saw seem to be hallmarks of conversion flaws.

Overall, Polar Express is a fun movie which both my kids and I enjoy. The 3D gives an added dimension to the fun, but for a details person like myself, the 3D flaws do prove distracting from time to time. But for most kids, the 3D will win out over the 2D any time, and the ability to switch to 2D from the same disc is another plus.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:11 AM
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I watched this a few weeks ago. I really enjoyed the 3D in this one. It is also a family favorite at this time of year.
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Old 12-20-2011, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aylarja View Post
With regard to the technical aspects of the movie, I assume that this movie was converted from 2D into 3D rather than produced as a 3D movie. There are times, as the reviewer noted, where the 3D effect goes awry, especially when foreground objects oddly extend deeper into the background than they should (most visible around the edges of people's heads in various scenes), and when background elements bleed into the foreground, forming a strange halo around foreground objects (most noticeable to me in the scenes in the North Pole city center around the conductor's head). I had hoped that Polar Express had been created as a 3D movie, but the 3D aberrations I saw seem to be hallmarks of conversion flaws.
The Polar Express was natively rendered in 3D and played in IMAX 3D theaters during its original theatrical run. In fact, it was famous for making more money in IMAX 3D than it did in regular theaters. The movie vanished from general distribution after about three weeks, but continued to play in IMAX for months.

The halo effect you're describing is a 3D crosstalk artifact, also known as "ghosting." There is much debate about whether ghosting is a fault of the 3D encoding on the disc or the display used to play it back. Results will vary from screen to screen.
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:46 PM
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There is much debate about whether ghosting is a fault of the 3D encoding on the disc or the display used to play it back. Results will vary from screen to screen.
Where do you stand on this debate Josh now that you have seen your RS40 get progressively worse over time as the lamp has aged as far as ghosting goes? My 40 did the exact same thing. Combine this with the fact that I have NEVER seen ghosting on the Acer 5360 DLP projector which I have viewed many times now and all signs IMHO point to the display being at fault. I firmly believe this is not a disc issue.

As far as PE goes, this is my #1 Christmas movie. I love it. There is hardly any ghosting on my RS45, the 3d is great in general and the audio is fantastic! Awesome all around experience!
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:20 PM
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Where do you stand on this debate Josh now that you have seen your RS40 get progressively worse over time as the lamp has aged as far as ghosting goes? My 40 did the exact same thing. Combine this with the fact that I have NEVER seen ghosting on the Acer 5360 DLP projector which I have viewed many times now and all signs IMHO point to the display being at fault. I firmly believe this is not a disc issue.
There has to be something in the content that interacts with the display to either cause or exaggerate ghosting. Some discs are much worse for this than others. Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs has minimal ghosting on my projector right now, but Monsters vs. Aliens (another CG animated movie with a very similar visual style) has such severe ghosting that it's unwatchable. If it were only the display at fault, this problem should affect all discs equally.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:54 PM
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Monsters vs. Aliens is unwatchable for me also. Does anyone have a display that can play this movie with no or little ghosting?
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
There has to be something in the content that interacts with the display to either cause or exaggerate ghosting. Some discs are much worse for this than others. Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs has minimal ghosting on my projector right now, but Monsters vs. Aliens (another CG animated movie with a very similar visual style) has such severe ghosting that it's unwatchable. If it were only the display at fault, this problem should affect all discs equally.


Then please explain why DLPs show no ghosting with these same "problem discs". I have played so many of my problem scenes that give my 40 and now 45 fits as far as ghosting over at my friends house who owns a Acer 5360 DLP and there is simply no ghosting whatsoever......none. Why is this?

Also, why do games ghost worse than blu ray 3d on non DLP displays? Again, you can put any of these problem "games" on a DLP and poof, no more ghosts.....why is this?

There are a few reasons why some "discs" are worse than others on a non DLP display. 3d intensity is one of them and extreme contrasts are another. Probably other reasons as well, but these seem to be the two biggest.

Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs has much less depth and 3d effect in general vs Monsters vs Aliens which is why those 2 discs are not similar as far as crosstalk. Monsters vs Aliens is a much more challenging presentation for a non DLP display because of this. You can see this same effect in any game that has a depth slider. Less depth commonly=less ghosting while more depth=more ghosting. Avatar the game is a perfect example of this.

Thanks for your opinion though even if we dont agree. I dont know what more proof you need when your RS40 starts ghosting more and more as the lamp wears down and putting these same problem scenes on a DLP eliminates the ghost.

If ghosting was somehow a disc issue, DLP would be showing the same problem and its not.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bouch24 View Post
Monsters vs. Aliens is unwatchable for me also. Does anyone have a display that can play this movie with no or little ghosting?
I watched it yesterday and it was certainly not unwatchable. There was a fair amount of ghosting off/on throughout, but considering my low hours it was still very watchable. No doubt in my mind though that this would have been unwatchable on my RS40 with 540 bulb hours

As far as a display that can play this with NO GHOSTING, you need a DLP. This is another disc I have watched on the little Acer I mentioned in my previous post and again no ghosting at all whatsoever.

Personally, I have my eye on the new BenQ 7000 DLP for a 3d only projector so I can be done with all this ghosting for good! This looks like a very promising unit that has true lens shift (rare for DLP in this price range) and zero offset which makes it perfect for HP users

Last edited by ToddS; 12-20-2011 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 12-20-2011, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
The Polar Express was natively rendered in 3D and played in IMAX 3D theaters during its original theatrical run.
Imax seems to confirm that it was converted from the 2D original, and not native 3D based on an article on siggraph.org.

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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
The halo effect you're describing is a 3D crosstalk artifact, also known as "ghosting."
I have read different descriptions of 3D ghosting and crosstalk, and I don't think this is what I saw. For reference, to see if we're talking about the same thing, an article on High-Def Digest titled "No Easy Fix for 3D Cross-Talk" describes this effect, and this is definitely not what I saw, and not what I meant to describe. The effect I saw had fantastic clarity and was in perfect focus in both eyes, but were flaws in depth-of-field rendering. I have not seen this effect in other Blu-ray 3D material I own (admittedly just a handful of titles, such as the Toy Story series, Monster House, and Disney's A Christmas Carol). I think Monster House was a conversion, and I'm not certain whether the Toy Story movies were converted or re-rendered in 3D. I'd have to see Polar Express 3D on another system to see whether and how the effect rendered there, but I feel reasonably confident that what I saw was the result of a flawed conversion.

P.S. - Sorry I can't post the URLs to the articles I cite, but the board software won't permit me to.
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