New Panasonic Bd-30 Review!! - High-Def Digest Forums
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Old 02-11-2008, 04:16 PM
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Default New Panasonic Bd-30 Review!!

Another GREAT review for the No 1. Blu-Ray SA on the market!

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/pa...30k-1403.shtml
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Old 02-12-2008, 06:55 AM
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Thanks for posting this new review. I have been keeping my eye on this player and everything I read about it is very positive. May pick this one up when I am ready to dump my Sammy out of frustration.
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkadin View Post
Another GREAT review for the No 1. Blu-Ray SA on the market!

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/pa...30k-1403.shtml


Any player with a -5db LFE issue over HDMI for PCM cannot be considered best S/A on the market. This affects MANY titles on BR where uncompressed PCM is the only lossless option. I would give the honor of best S/A to the Pioneer 95 just because of this for anyone using HDMI for audio. I own the 30 by the way and if Panny issues a FW fix for this, then I would agree that the 30 is the best stand alone for anyone who has a 1.3 pre/pro or plans on getting one at some point in the near future, but this is a BIG IF at the moment.

Do they mention the PCM LFE HDMI issue in this review?
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:09 AM
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when the Denon player comes out officially, this will no longer be the case. Lfe problems or not, this player is the consensus best bd sa without a doubt currently. The Pioneer player would be in all likelihood if it was 1.1.
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ToddS View Post
Any player with a -5db LFE issue over HDMI for PCM cannot be considered best S/A on the market. This affects MANY titles on BR where uncompressed PCM is the only lossless option. I would give the honor of best S/A to the Pioneer 95 just because of this for anyone using HDMI for audio. I own the 30 by the way and if Panny issues a FW fix for this, then I would agree that the 30 is the best stand alone for anyone who has a 1.3 pre/pro or plans on getting one at some point in the near future, but this is a BIG IF at the moment.

Do they mention the PCM LFE HDMI issue in this review?
Not directly, But:

"Although multi-channel PCM soundtracks on Blu-ray discs are also lossless (bit perfect copies of the original source), the lower bandwidth and storage requirements of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD allow the disc producers to include higher sampling rates and/or larger bit-words, either of which allows you to get higher fidelity than you can get with PCM, using the same amount of storage space, and without any loss in quality."
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Arkadin View Post
when the Denon player comes out officially, this will no longer be the case. Lfe problems or not, this player is the consensus best bd sa without a doubt currently. The Pioneer player would be in all likelihood if it was 1.1.

I disagree, but we can agree to do that I still say the 95 is the best on the market for anyone using HDMI for audio. The Panny LFE issue is that significant for anyone who cares about audio. The BD30 being 1.1 in NO way makes up for the PCM LFE flaw which will cause issue with so many lossless PCM tracks (and Disney looks like it will continue to use PCM as Sleeping Beauty in October will be 7.1 PCM). Not only is this not the best S/A for anyone using HDMI for audio, but I could not even reccomend it with this significant flaw at this point in time. If a FW fix comes out then this is all a different story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irrob View Post
Not directly, But:

"Although multi-channel PCM soundtracks on Blu-ray discs are also lossless (bit perfect copies of the original source), the lower bandwidth and storage requirements of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD allow the disc producers to include higher sampling rates and/or larger bit-words, either of which allows you to get higher fidelity than you can get with PCM, using the same amount of storage space, and without any loss in quality."
That has nothing to do with the PCM LFE HDMI issue. They are simply explaining how the sound codec tech works when put on disc and the dif between PCM and TrueHD/DTS-HD when putting onto a disc.
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Old 02-18-2008, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ToddS View Post
. . . in NO way makes up for the PCM LFE flaw which will cause issue with so many lossless PCM tracks (and Disney looks like it will continue to use PCM as Sleeping Beauty in October will be 7.1 PCM). Not only is this not the best S/A for anyone using HDMI for audio, but I could not even reccomend it with this significant flaw at this point in time.
Total noob to this site (though I've been researching it for weeks). How extensive, or obvious, will the LFE flaw be to the average person with an average setup? Will it sound bad, like there's something missing? (I'm coming from a regular old 5.1 component cable setup, and have always been quite pleased with my lows.) Or is it more a matter of it annoying audiophiles because you know you're not getting what you could/should be getting out of the equipment? Thanks.
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Old 02-19-2008, 02:03 AM
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Decibels are logarithmic, which is essentially how your ears work. 5db won't sound "1/5 as loud," but it is extremely audible, especially if your system has strong bass capability.

3DB represents a doubling of power. 5DB is almost 4x. A 5db error is clearly perceptible. Most tone controls on older audio gear offered +/- 12 db or +/- 6db of gain. To hear this, just note how quickly adjusting the bottom slider of the equalizer -5db on iTunes. Using decent headphones, you'll clearly hear the music change timbre and sound "gutless."

A -5db error on the LFE is totally audible if you have a really strong subwoofer, and if you've spent the bucks for good speakers, this ought to be totally unacceptable. The better the bass capacity/quality of your system, the more you will note this issue. If your speakers are small and your sub doesn't go much below 50-60hz, the issue becomes irrelevant.

The net is the better your system and the more capacity it has for deep bass, the more offensive the error becomes.
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Old 02-19-2008, 03:29 PM
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I have the BD-UP5000...works great..but doesn't scale ratio's correctly (example..Seven Samurai is stretched across my 16:9) How does this unit handle the adjust for ratio?
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Old 02-19-2008, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrspeakers View Post
Decibels are logarithmic, which is essentially how your ears work. 5db won't sound "1/5 as loud," but it is extremely audible, especially if your system has strong bass capability.

3DB represents a doubling of power. 5DB is almost 4x. A 5db error is clearly perceptible. Most tone controls on older audio gear offered +/- 12 db or +/- 6db of gain. To hear this, just note how quickly adjusting the bottom slider of the equalizer -5db on iTunes. Using decent headphones, you'll clearly hear the music change timbre and sound "gutless."

A -5db error on the LFE is totally audible if you have a really strong subwoofer, and if you've spent the bucks for good speakers, this ought to be totally unacceptable. The better the bass capacity/quality of your system, the more you will note this issue. If your speakers are small and your sub doesn't go much below 50-60hz, the issue becomes irrelevant.

The net is the better your system and the more capacity it has for deep bass, the more offensive the error becomes.

Great explanation -- thanks mrspeakers!
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