ESPN 3-D Hits Comcast June 11th - High-Def Digest Forums
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:30 AM
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Default ESPN 3-D Hits Comcast June 11th

ESPN 3-D Hits Comcast June 11th:

http://www.comcast.com/About/PressRe....ashx?PRID=991
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:20 PM
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awesome, shitty, pixelated, macro blocking in 3D.

Given Comcast's "service," in our area I look forward to seeing what satellite providers have to show, but am not excited to see Comcast's future failures at all.
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Old 05-14-2010, 12:18 PM
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I just can't comprehend this fascination with 3D, I really can't

I'd rather have 1080P broadcast than 720p/1080i broadcast.

Or about about LESS COMPRESSION Comcast?!
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Old 05-15-2010, 02:20 AM
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I have to agree here, i have Comcast and their HD is a joke, major pixelation!
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Old 05-15-2010, 01:27 PM
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I have Comcast HD and I have yet to get promised HD channels like Comedy Central, FX, etc etc.
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Old 05-15-2010, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston007 View Post
I just can't comprehend this fascination with 3D, I really can't

I'd rather have 1080P broadcast than 720p/1080i broadcast.

Or about about LESS COMPRESSION Comcast?!
I'm pretty sure the recompression scandal with Comcast was limited to a handful of the least popular cable channels. Major networks and the most popular channels (ESPN, TNT, Discovery, etc.) were not touched.

1080p would be pretty worthless, since you're still limited by the source. Don't get on Comcast about that; call up NBC, ABC, etc. to complain. Of course, for them to do 1080p, they'd have to broadcast one signal over the air, and then send another one to Comcast, since ATSC tuners aren't compatible with 1080p (and people with 720p TVs would be hung out to dry, since many of them cannot process 1080p).

My personal observation is that the 720p channels do much better with compression artifacts than the 1080i ones, especially with live broadcasts. Running 1080p at the same bitrates they have now would probably be much worse than scaling 720p -> 1080p. In the latter, you just wouldn't have quite as much detail, and probably a small sharpness hit, but you wouldn't have macroblacking up the wazoo.
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Old 05-15-2010, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Jables View Post
I'm pretty sure the recompression scandal with Comcast was limited to a handful of the least popular cable channels. Major networks and the most popular channels (ESPN, TNT, Discovery, etc.) were not touched.

1080p would be pretty worthless, since you're still limited by the source. Don't get on Comcast about that; call up NBC, ABC, etc. to complain. Of course, for them to do 1080p, they'd have to broadcast one signal over the air, and then send another one to Comcast, since ATSC tuners aren't compatible with 1080p (and people with 720p TVs would be hung out to dry, since many of them cannot process 1080p).

My personal observation is that the 720p channels do much better with compression artifacts than the 1080i ones, especially with live broadcasts. Running 1080p at the same bitrates they have now would probably be much worse than scaling 720p -> 1080p. In the latter, you just wouldn't have quite as much detail, and probably a small sharpness hit, but you wouldn't have macroblacking up the wazoo.
Jables, you make a few good points, but allow me to correct you in a few places.

Yes, Comcast's recompression hardware only touched certain channels/networks, but Discovery was one of them. TNT/TBS and ESPN/2 weren't as far as I can tell. Also, certain networks probably have provisions in their carrier agreements with cable companies about this sort of thing. I think TNT/TBS look excellent in 1080i for this very reason (ignoring the occasional upconverted SD program material).

1080p is part of the ATSC spec, but it's limited to 30 Hz or less. This is a pointless format unless you are willing to show movies 24/7. I think 720p59.94 should have been adopted across the board so we could rid ourselves of interlacing.

Here's the ATSC format table:



720p59.94 and 1080i59.94 have roughly the same bandwidth requirements. 720p is roughly 55,240,759 pixels per second (1280x720x60000/1001). 1080i is roughly 62,145,854 pixels per second (1920x1080x30000/1001). As you can see, there is about a 12.5% increase in pixels from 720p to 1080i. Also, interlaced encoding is less efficient than progressive encoding, to the tune of about 15% based on compressionist experts. All in all, you can see that 720p encoding will provide higher quality per bit not only because of lesser spatial resolution, but also because of progressive encoding. Hardware encoders will have much better motion estimation with 60 progressive fps versus 30 interlaced fps.

Your worries about picture sharpness are well founded, but you'll find that sometimes the camera and equipment used for certain productions don't even measure out to 1080i/p resolution. One of the most popular Panasonic prosumer camcorders is the AG-HVX200. Before it was upgraded via the AG-HVX200A model, it proclaimed to be a 1080p camcorder using 1/3" CCD sensors. However, the sensors themselves only had 960x540 resolution, and the footage had to be upconverted in-camera to 960x720 for recording in the DVC ProHD format. Also, many cameras' lenses cannot even resolve the full resolution of their sensors because of poor MTF.

1080p59.94 with MPEG-2 High Profile encoding within the ATSC framework is simply untenable. Broadcasters in Europe are considering 1080p50 encoding using MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, which might be doable. I'd still rather take 720p50 at the proposed bit rates which would give you a great picture.
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