SD-DVD Upconverting Technology in Optical Media Players

[Rich86]

Originally Posted by thebat68

Here is a pic of a movie playing on the XDE.

Sure looks nice - but it is hard to tell given the image having to conform to size limitations in the forum.

In another thread - reference was made to a Toshiba press conference:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/ne...hiba-at-IFA/p1

That press conference seems to suggest the XDE has a cell processor in it - but I believe an image from the AVS forum shows a Zoran Vaddis 9 chip as the primary processor . . . maybe a misquote in the article?

[Rich86]

Originally Posted by dsskid

Sorry, not looking to piss anyone off or to flamebait, but I don't think that a person who is paid by Toshiba can give a fair assessment of their product.

Since Mr. Rob Enderle, who wrote the Digitaltrends review that you linked, is the same Mr. Rob Enderle who sits on the advisory councils for Lenovo, Toshiba, AMD, HP, Dell, Philips, Trusted Computing Group, and the Lifeboat Foundation; and considering that this is a Toshiba product, how could anyone honestly expect his review to be anything but biased?

http://www.enderlegroup.com/profile_rob.htm

Yep - it's always a challenge to understand any reviewers preconceived notions and biases based upon whatever is in their background - especially the ones who declare something will work or will not work based upon whatever they think they know about the hardware under the cover, even if they've never seen the player in action. I don't know any way around it other than finding a number of folks opinions based upon actual use and objective testing - and ultimately, going to see for yourself.

[vinnie97]

Originally Posted by thebat68

I bought the XDE a few days ago and like i posted on the other thread. It is not HD but it blows away my Tosh A-35 and PS3. I own a lot of SDVD's and will not convert them all over to Blu. Too expensive. You will not be disappointed in this player. It does 1080p 24/fps and really makes the movies pop. I had a Tosh HDA1 and it beats this as well. My only coplaint is that it will take a 1:33 source and fill the screen, no matter the setting, therefore I will be watching my television shows on dvd on my A35 or PS3.

OK, so you're not REON-equipped...I need to hear more opinions from those with the XA2 or BD-UP5000. So far it's rather mixed but favoring the more natural look (as opposed to over-processed) provided by the REON upscaling method.

[Rich86]

Originally Posted by vinnie97

OK, so you're not REON-equipped...I need to hear more opinions from those with the XA2 or BD-UP5000. So far it's rather mixed but favoring the more natural look (as opposed to over-processed) provided by the REON upscaling method.

Too bad someone with an XDE doesn't live near Vinnie, since Vinnie has and is a fan of the Samsung BD-UP5000 (which uses the Reon chip for upconverting). I remember hauling audio equipment over to a friend's house for our periodic critical comparisons of our respective latest upgrades. But that was many years ago. It was actually a lot of fun. We convinced ourselves that all the equipment sounded better as the evening wore on and the equipment warmed up. Our wives had a different perspective - they always said "it's the wine, stupid". With video, we'd probably be convinced the equipment was deteriorating as the evening wore on . . .

[j-austin]

Can someone help me out here?

I understand that the best upconverting isn't truly as good as Blu-ray. However, if one is not ready to buy a Blu-ray, I would like to better understand upconverting. I basically understand what upconverting dvd players do, and that there are differences in internal chips and quality of the upconversion process in various upconverters. My question:

If you have a pretty high-end, new, 1080p TV (50K:1 contrast, 120Hz, etc), does the internal upconverting that the tv itself does get a benefit from also having a good upconverting dvd player? If so, can that be done for $150?

Would appreciate some insight, as I have seen a lot of mixed info on this issue. Thanks.

[Rich86]

Originally Posted by j-austin

Can someone help me out here?

I understand that the best upconverting isn't truly as good as Blu-ray. However, if one is not ready to buy a Blu-ray, I would like to better understand upconverting. I basically understand what upconverting dvd players do, and that there are differences in internal chips and quality of the upconversion process in various upconverters. My question:

If you have a pretty high-end, new, 1080p TV (50K:1 contrast, 120Hz, etc), does the internal upconverting that the tv itself does get a benefit from also having a good upconverting dvd player? If so, can that be done for $150?

Would appreciate some insight, as I have seen a lot of mixed info on this issue. Thanks.

I'm no expert - but - I can share my experiences.
When I play a dvd via my upconverting player or hd-dvd player to my 1080p lcd TV (46" Sharp Aquos, 4ms response, high contrast ratio, etc.) via hdmi - as compared to playing that same dvd via my older dvd player via component video cables - the video quality via upconverting using the hdmi connection is far superior. I am particularly fussy about keeping the displayed aspect raio accurate to the source - and I want the full screen on the display. Because of that, I keep my Sharp TV set for "dot by dot" - meaning, as I understand it, it displays the source signal as it receives it - it does not monkey around with stretching, zooming, etc. That's the way I like it.
There are any number of players, chips, processes, etc. out there that accomplish upconverting. HD-DVD players have been noted for being better upconverters than most blu-ray players. But some combo (hd-dvd + blu-ray) players with the reon chip are excellent upconverters (the Samsung BD-UP5000). Part of what stimulated lots of discussion on this topic recently is Toshiba's announcement of their new technology upconverting dvd player - the XD-E500. This player has an msrp of $150 - and is getting very good reviews of its upconverting abilities. Lots of reviewers are saying it is the best upconverter out here at this point. But it is early, so I would say it apparently is a really excellent upconverter and leave it at that for now. I have to believe that player will be down around $100 to $125 before 2008 is over - and that will be a good deal for anyone in the market for a dvd upconverting player to go with their new high definition television.
I hope that helps - and maybe others will supply additional helpful info and perspectives.

[chris gerhard]

Originally Posted by Rich86

Too bad someone with an XDE doesn't live near Vinnie, since Vinnie has and is a fan of the Samsung BD-UP5000 (which uses the Reon chip for upconverting). I remember hauling audio equipment over to a friend's house for our periodic critical comparisons of our respective latest upgrades. But that was many years ago. It was actually a lot of fun.

There are already at least a few owners of the XD-E500 that also own a player with Silicon Optix Reon and can give us their opinions. One here is bruceames, he owns the Toshiba HD-XA2 and he has indicated a preference for the XDE player so far. We should soon see a lot of comparative reviews with Silicon Optix and other good DVD players. I am waiting for objective test data to understand more about what is going on with the new process.

Chris

[j-austin]

Originally Posted by Rich86

When I play a dvd via my upconverting player or hd-dvd player to my 1080p lcd TV ... via hdmi - as compared to playing that same dvd via my older dvd player via component video cables - the video quality via upconverting using the hdmi connection is far superior.

Thanks for the response. Do you think that some, or possibly most, of the difference in your situation could be due to hdmi vs. component cabling?

On another note, I noticed recently that, played through the exact same system, some dvds seem to have vastly better picture quality than other dvds (or maybe the point is better stated that some dvds have vastly worse PQ). Any idea what's up with that?

[Rich86]

Originally Posted by j-austin

Thanks for the response. Do you think that some, or possibly most, of the difference in your situation could be due to hdmi vs. component cabling?

On another note, I noticed recently that, played through the exact same system, some dvds seem to have vastly better picture quality than other dvds (or maybe the point is better stated that some dvds have vastly worse PQ). Any idea what's up with that?

My dvd player will only upconvert via the hdmi cable connections. I expect there is a difference between the dvd player actually processing the video to output a 1080i or 1080p video signal (or whatever your TV will accept) via hdmi, as opposed to the player sending the standard dvd video to the tv via component cabling, and the TV displaying in whatever its native display is on the panel. I'm not aware that tv's perform any upconversion algorithms beyond displayng the standard dvd video to the panel. You should probably read up on your particular tv a bit.

Everything starts with the quality of your source dvd. Well mastered, high bit-rate anamorphic source dvd's look best upconverted. Some source dvd's are just poorly made and nothing can make them much better.

I suggest you experiment a bit, if possible, to determine what is right for you.

[vinnie97]

Originally Posted by chris gerhard

There are already at least a few owners of the XD-E500 that also own a player with Silicon Optix Reon and can give us their opinions. One here is bruceames, he owns the Toshiba HD-XA2 and he has indicated a preference for the XDE player so far. We should soon see a lot of comparative reviews with Silicon Optix and other good DVD players. I am waiting for objective test data to understand more about what is going on with the new process.

Chris

Aye, and Gargamel has both the XDE and BD-UP5000. He gives the edge to the REON. Toss-up.

[chris gerhard]

Originally Posted by vinnie97

Aye, and Gargamel has both the XDE and BD-UP5000. He gives the edge to the REON. Toss-up.

If the opinions are split 50/50, that likely means the player does a nice job. This has become yawn enducing for me now, I just don't care, my DVD players are good enough and I also have Blu-ray, there is really nothing here of interest for me. All of my DVD players also play something else of importance to me, SACD, Blu-ray, DVD-A, or HD DVD. This one doesn't and I wouldn't need it even if it did.

Chris

[Rich86]

Originally Posted by chris gerhard

If the opinions are split 50/50, that likely means the player does a nice job. This has become yawn enducing for me now, I just don't care, my DVD players are good enough and I also have Blu-ray, there is really nothing here of interest for me. All of my DVD players also play something else of importance to me, SACD, Blu-ray, DVD-A, or HD DVD. This one doesn't and I wouldn't need it even if it did.

Chris

That's fine. We aren't selling XD-E500's here. Just talking about various types and implementations of sd-dvd upconverting processes.

[vinnie97]

Originally Posted by chris gerhard

If the opinions are split 50/50, that likely means the player does a nice job. This has become yawn enducing for me now, I just don't care, my DVD players are good enough and I also have Blu-ray, there is really nothing here of interest for me. All of my DVD players also play something else of importance to me, SACD, Blu-ray, DVD-A, or HD DVD. This one doesn't and I wouldn't need it even if it did.

Chris

Trust me, I don't give a darn either (don't even own many DVDs). It's just more of an exercise in intellectual curiosity on my part. I look forward to the day when the importance of upconversion fades.

[CaptainCanuck]

Originally Posted by vinnie97

Trust me, I don't give a darn either (don't even own many DVDs). It's just more of an exercise in intellectual curiosity on my part. I look forward to the day when the importance of upconversion fades.

That could be a long time if not forever. If blu ray prices do not come down and joe 6p decides that upscaling truly is 'good enough' then blu ray could be in for a rough ride.

[John32]

I have an upconverting DVD player (Magnavox) that I bought this past April at Sam's Club for my 32" panasonic 720p HD TV that I've got in the bedroom. It was all of $49.00 and does a nice job