Redbox Sued Over Multi-Day Rental Fees

[Landy]

http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/10/27/Redbox.pdf

Sorry if this is the wrong area, I didn't know where else to put it.

[Lee Stewart]

Wonder why the plantiff ignored this:

implied contract

Definition

Legally enforceable agreement that arises from the conduct, assumed intentions, some relationship among the immediate parties, or due to the application of the legal principle of equity. For example, a contract is implied when a party knowingly accepts a benefit from another party in circumstances where the benefit cannot be considered a gift. Therefore, the party accepting the benefit is under a legal obligation to give fair value for the benefit received. Opposite of express contract. See also implied in fact contract and implied in law contract.

The fact that Redbox uses some marketing spin with their "never any late charges" mumbo jumbo, there has to be some kind of a terms of use lawyer speak before a transaction is processed - at least for a new customer.

[45rpm]

Another one of those lawsuits that without interpreting the legal wordings of a contract is just common sense.

What is so hard to understand in "$1 a night" and you must return the DVD before 9:00 pm?

$1/per night X 25 nights after 9 pm = $25

I think that the plaintiff is the scammer. She intentionally did not return the DVDs numerous times, which is her own fault, so she can exploit the wordings in the Redbox contract.

[frostybru82]

once again, the "sue happy" citizens of the world unite! having used redbox a total of...ummmmmm, twice, i had no problem understanding the deal. it's funny that the $25 "super fee" is referenced when that cutoff is just as helpful to the consumer. think about it. if they didn't cut off at $25, you could be charged a buck a day for god knows how long! i remember when i worked at the video store...remember those?...and a lost tape, that's right, would cost you $40!

plus, the redbox email receipts/reminders/etc are constants in my inbox. forgetting is not an option...no matter how much you want to.

[tranzparentl]

How the hell do people think RedBox is going to make money? Certainly not off the first $1 day.

This is far less evil than credit card late fees.

[SilentNight]

people are idiots. Just return the movie on time! These are the same assholes that talk in movie theaters and text. People wanting something for nothing.

[Cochise]

Originally Posted by 45rpm

Another one of those lawsuits that without interpreting the legal wordings of a contract is just common sense.

What is so hard to understand in "$1 a night" and you must return the DVD before 9:00 pm?

$1/per night X 25 nights after 9 pm = $25

I think that the plaintiff is the scammer. She intentionally did not return the DVDs numerous times, which is her own fault, so she can exploit the wordings in the Redbox contract.

Very likely, or "compensated" by an attorney to so, so that he could file the lawsuit. I notice in Redbox's Terms of Use, that is says: "These Terms of Use, your access and use of the Kiosks, and the relationship between you and us are governed by the laws of the state of Illinois, without giving effect to its conflict of law provisions. You and Redbox both agree to submit to the personal and exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of the state of Illinois.", and the plaintiff is very conveniently located in St. Clair, IL.

But, Redbox is stupid to use the phrase "Never a late fee" - they already got one rental chain for that; I forget if it was Blockbuster or Hollywood Video. They weren't charging a late fee, but of course if you never bothered to return the disc they charged you a fee for it, and courts interpreted that as a "late fee" - and I notice this plaintiff conveniently got charged the Redbox $25 fee a couple of times for not returning a disc. The plaintiff and her attorney(s) will get something out of this one. Charging for another rental period if you don't return the disc by 9:00 PM is still a penalty for returning late, i.e. a late fee - no matter how easily understood "$1 a night" is.

[Rich86]

Wouldn't you love to know who is actually behind the initiation of this lawsuit?

[Lee Stewart]

evergreen contract

Definition

Agreement between two parties that is automatically renewed (rolled over) after each completion- or maturity period, until canceled by the either party.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/de...-contract.html

[KYThrill]

I think Redbox will be fine on this one. They have published literature exaplaining how Redbox works and what no late fees mean. The basically describe that you pay $1 per day, with no fees above that $1. So it is 1+1=2 for two days, not 1+1+$.50= $2.50 for two days.

The plantiff was never charged a late fee. They were charged for a rental extension. Two different things...

[damonous]

Originally Posted by Cochise

...But, Redbox is stupid to use the phrase "Never a late fee" - they already got one rental chain for that;...

Not having used RedBox myself, I can say that I'd put my money with you on this one. While "common sense" says that $1 a day is the cost per day (ie: each day); today's legal system isn't necessarily full of "common sense".

When we start talking 'legalese', I could see RedBox taking a big hit for this. You're right: rather imbecilic to use "Never a late fee" as a slogan. I mean, was "$1 a day" not clear-cut enough? The "Never a late fee" slogan is almost a deliberate attempt to mislead, or make people subconsciously overlook the fact that if they don't return it in 1 day, they are going to be paying $2 (and so on). --Regardless of how many 'email reminders', etc. they are sent. Sure, you'd have to be a monkey to really be that naive to think that it's "$1 for a day", and if you happen to return it 40 days later, you owe nothing else because you already paid your $1. But, nothing says that it couldn't be interpreted in that fashion (albeit by the mind of a complete imbecile.)

Hotels charge a rate "per night". And, if you extend your stay one night, you can be pretty certain that they are going to bill you for 2 nights when you check out. But, they don't go through a silly scheme to say, "Never a late fee at our hotel!"

The plaintiff is obviously a big-time scammer. But, RedBox has foolishly left themselves wide-open to it. And, at the end of the day, if a cut-rate business that puts human beings out of work (albeit at relatively low-paying jobs), and removes the ability of others to enjoy perusing a wide physical selection of videos in a store .....if that type of business becomes unsolvent and has to go belly-up due to this lawsuit (and their own stupidity) .... I won't lose sleep over it.

[miniskunk]

An extra $1 is fair if you keep it past 24 hours. They simply need to make that clearer on the kiosk.

As for the $25 failure to return fee. It is not excessive. Those machines are frequently stocked with current hot movie titles. Titles not present in the machine for renting cost them money. Rental stores have charged far more for the replacement cost than that for years. Anyone that thinks they can keep the movie indefinitely without some kind of penalty are just plain nuts.

I hope Red Box prevails in both cases. They are offering a better service for less and often in under served areas that are too small for a full rental store.

[KYThrill]

Originally Posted by damonous

Not having used RedBox myself, I can say that I'd put my money with you on this one. While "common sense" says that $1 a day is the cost per day (ie: each day); today's legal system isn't necessarily full of "common sense".

When we start talking 'legalese', I could see RedBox taking a big hit for this. You're right: rather imbecilic to use "Never a late fee" as a slogan. I mean, was "$1 a day" not clear-cut enough? The "Never a late fee" slogan is almost a deliberate attempt to mislead, or make people subconsciously overlook the fact that if they don't return it in 1 day, they are going to be paying $2 (and so on). --Regardless of how many 'email reminders', etc. they are sent. Sure, you'd have to be a monkey to really be that naive to think that it's "$1 for a day", and if you happen to return it 40 days later, you owe nothing else because you already paid your $1. But, nothing says that it couldn't be interpreted in that fashion (albeit by the mind of a complete imbecile.)

Hotels charge a rate "per night". And, if you extend your stay one night, you can be pretty certain that they are going to bill you for 2 nights when you check out. But, they don't go through a silly scheme to say, "Never a late fee at our hotel!"

The plaintiff is obviously a big-time scammer. But, RedBox has foolishly left themselves wide-open to it. And, at the end of the day, if a cut-rate business that puts human beings out of work (albeit at relatively low-paying jobs), and removes the ability of others to enjoy perusing a wide physical selection of videos in a store .....if that type of business becomes unsolvent and has to go belly-up due to this lawsuit (and their own stupidity) .... I won't lose sleep over it.

But the hotel isn't charging you a late fee. They are charging you for another night. The two are different things. There are two things you can be charged for: the rental time frame and the late fee. Red Box only charges you for the rental time frame. They do not tack on an additional late fee.

If you go into the way back machine. Video stores used to charge (and some still do) a different rate for a late fee, or slap on a fixed charge. For example, a locally run video store in my town charged $3 for two days to rent VHS, but you could only keep it for two days, or you were late. If you returned it on day 3 or day 4, you paid another $3 plus a $2 fixed late fee. Day 5 or 6, $6 + $2 late fee.

Another example is Blockbuster. At one point they charged $5 for 2 days. After two days, you had a 7 day grace period of no late fees. After 7 days, a late fee of $1.31 for each two days was applied.

Or another example, my local library is free for 7 days. After 7 days, you pay a late fee of $1 per day.

[KYThrill]

Why are people so down on Kiosks? Sure, they may put a few minimum wage clerks and a mid-wage manager out of work. But making and maintaining the Kiosks employees skilled workers at better than minimum wage jobs.

Further, a Kiosk that only uses 13 sq ft can supply 1700 discs (this model is used in Europe)! The same company has a design for a 5426 disc version that only takes up 30 sq ft. A typical Blockbuster is 4800 sq ft and houses around 5000-6000 movies and games. Even a small video store is 1800 sq ft. But you can replace a 4800 sq ft building (with a 12,000 sq ft parking lot) with only 30 sq ft of efficiently used space!

Plant some trees and make a play park for the kids with the space you save. Hey, thats more jobs making and maintaining the park!

Then on top of that, a Kiosk doesn't require extra heating and cooling. It doesn't run 200 15W lights for 16 hours a day. It doesn't need water and sewer. Doesn't need as much energy in the initial construction. It is incredibly green compared to traditional stores. It's obvious that movie stores are a tremendous waste of space and energy. Kiosks are as efficient as you can get!

[OneManShow]

Originally Posted by frostybru82

once again, the "sue happy" citizens of the world unite! having used redbox a total of...ummmmmm, twice, i had no problem understanding the deal. it's funny that the $25 "super fee" is referenced when that cutoff is just as helpful to the consumer. think about it. if they didn't cut off at $25, you could be charged a buck a day for god knows how long! i remember when i worked at the video store...remember those?...and a lost tape, that's right, would cost you $40!

plus, the redbox email receipts/reminders/etc are constants in my inbox. forgetting is not an option...no matter how much you want to.

These law suits are ridiculous. I remember working at blockbuster in highschool and my first year of college. It seemed like we were constantly fighting with customers over late fees. I hated it. Some folks would pay 100+ in late fees. Remember thinking, if only these people would return their movies on time. I don't understand why it's so hard. I'm 30 and have only paid late fees twice in my life, and that was only because I was sick and didn't feel like going to the store. The only enjoyable thing about working for blockbuster was the free movie and game rentals. Really glad I have a career where I don't have to deal with the public.