HD Advisor June 5th

[AndersT2]

While I can't speak for AndersT2 & Motorheadache, my main PS3 is an original 60gb. I've upgraded the hard drive (first to 160gb; now to 320gb). I *think* that the larger the disk, the hotter that gets, and the more frequently the PS3 fan is bound to kick in to high gear.

If the reader does choose a PS3, I would *HIGHLY* recommend a purchase of a PS3ToothFairy. Dumb name; pricey gadget (about $100); but worth every penny. (Note: you may need to buy a new or used PS2 remote for $5-10, in order to program your Universal remote, unless you're using a Harmony.) This device is unobtrusive on the counter and converts a PS2 remote's IR signals over to the Sony Bluetooth protocol (it actually uses the IC board from the official PS3 BT remote, and for about $25 less you can cannibalize your own remote, if you prefer).

I waited far too long to get one of these, and life is quite cool right now, because I can just treat the PS3 like any regular IR component in the rack, including power-on.

Remember there might be a difference in the speed of a new harddrive. the 2.5" HDD of the PS3 is 5400 RPM, but if you buy a new and bigger one, it might be 7200 RPM. And that might make more noise too.



For the remote problem. If you have a Logitech universal remote, they just have released a Bluetooth adapter for it. Haven't gotten it yet. But it will do everything the original remote does, including turning it on.

[damonous]

Remember there might be a difference in the speed of a new harddrive. the 2.5" HDD of the PS3 is 5400 RPM, but if you buy a new and bigger one, it might be 7200 RPM. And that might make more noise too. ...

Good point. Yes, a higher-spinning drive will almost certainly run hotter. But, I believe every larger drive I've put in has perhaps run just a bit hotter (more disks being packed-in to the shell, etc). It's certainly just anecdotal, but I think I've heard the fan slightly more frequently with each larger drive. I'm hoping now that I can hold-out on a 500gb until the price comes crashing on solid state drives, as my 320gb is nearing capacity.

Of course, ambient room temperature is a big factor, too. So, sometimes it's a question of (for me): do I want to hear the air conditioner, or do I want to hear the PS3 fan? (The latter being much more acceptable, of course.)

If it's a disc with a Dolby TrueHD track, I may opt to run the BD in my Panasonic player ---the BD-10 only decodes TrueHD to PCM; the PS3 decodes both TrueHD & DTS-HD-MA to PCM; my receiver only accepts PCM.


BTW: Since this thread is about sharing more tech info on product and I think one of the questions was about "PCM or bitstream": I, for one, am perfectly happy with PCM 7.1 passed digitally via HDMI straight from either the PS3 or Panasonic. I would have to think it's "myth" that bitstream would matter in this situation. Plus, since my receiver is a full-digital amp, nothing ever leaves the digital chain, and the clarity is fantastic. Panasonic has a newer (albeit less-pretty) receiver, BX500, which is also all-digital and decodes bitstream as well as PCM.

[Josh Z]

Also, on the PS3 settings, what are the differences between Video and PC contrast levels? Does it depend on the type of display you are using on which you should select? It seemed to make the ps3's black default menu a little more gray when I changed it to Limited on my Samsung LCD. Of course I calibrated it with the old settings, should I recalibrate using the limited setting? When would you use PC levels?

PC levels will clip blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white detail. That's really not appropriate for movie watching.

[Mischaflix]

PC levels will clip blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white detail. That's really not appropriate for movie watching.

Sorry Josh, but while you're correct in principle, I'm afraid you have a misunderstanding about the way the PS3 handles different kinds of video sources. There is a tremendous amount of misinformation on the web regarding this issue, and I had the wrong opinion myself until I did some very careful checking on my system. Simply put, assuming you have your PS3 at its default settings, you will be sending DVD and Blu-ray content as Y/Cb/Cr, not RGB. This content is therefore completely unaffected by your choice of setting RGB to "full" vs. "limited". I repeat: for users who care only about Blu-ray movies and never play any games or watch media from the PS3's hard drive, the RGB setting is completely irrelevant and your Blu-ray Y/Cb/Cr content will continue to be reproduced properly regardless (make sure you don't set it to send Blu-ray as RGB). I have verified this through very careful checking on my own system. (Separately, it's certainly true that Super-white should be set to "on", which not only allows the PS3 to send whiter-than-white Y/Cb/Cr info, but also blacker-than-black, and leaving it "off" merely clips those levels to true-white and true-black; there is no reason anyone would need to do this, these days. Leaving it "on" is useful especially if trying to see these special shades when calibrating using one of those video essentials discs.)

But back to RGB. This is the format the PS3 always uses for its menu OS, as well as all game content (whether from game discs or the hard drive), and also any photos and videos you have on the drive, so the RGB setting a user chooses will be relevant specifically for this content. There is no option to send this content as Y/Cb/Cr instead. The setting that a user should choose depends entirely on how their particular TV handles incoming RGB signals, which may be different from how it handles incoming Y/Cb/Cr signals. The latter is a video-only format, and all sets (to the best of my knowledge) will react with Video Levels when reading Y/Cb/Cr. But my TV, for example (a Samsung DLP) reacts as if it were a computer monitor the minute it receives RGB instead. RGB "Limited" causes such signals to be sent in the range 16-234, which you might consider "wrong" if your TV reproduces them within the PC Levels dynamic range of 0-255, as mine does. Of course, you might actually prefer this limited dynamic range for games, if you find that your TV's inherent dynamic range (much wider than the average PC monitor on which the content was created) is just too much for game content and you'd rather not allow the game's blacks and whites to expand out into such inky blacks and brilliant whites.

Here's how to see which way your TV operates:
(1) Make sure your PS3 is sending Blu-ray (etc) as Y/Cb/Cr, not RGB.
(2) Set RGB to "limited".
(3) Press and hold the PS button while in the PS3's x-media bar OS.
(4) Compare the darkness of the black background here to what you see when you hold the PS button while watching a Blu-ray movie.
(5) if the black background looks nice and black with the Blu-ray (using Y/Cb/Cr), but more of a dark grey when in the OS (using RGB), then your TV is unequivocally treating RGB content at PC Levels, not Video Levels, and you should set RGB to "full" if you wish the PS3 to send it as 0-255 (PC levels). If you keep it on "limited", the PS3 will send RGB as 16-234 (Video Levels, which is the same as how it sends Y/Cb/Cr), and this is only appropriate if your TV is expecting this range with RGB, the way it undoubtedly is with Y/Cb/Cr.

Now, you might well ask, do I need separate calibrations for Y/Cb/Cr vs. RGB? Luckily, I've found that my careful calibration of Y/Cb/Cr (from a Blu-ray calibration disc) results in brightness and contrast settings which are also just about right for RGB. The best way to check RGB black levels is to download an image file for this purpose and view it via the "photo" menu of the x-media bar, since this will be sent from the PS3 as RGB even if you have Blu-ray set to Y/Cb/Cr. (I don't have an active download link for this, sorry).

[ajmrowland]

Do you have a newer PS3? Mine is the original 60gb model, and according to damonous the newer ones are quieter. There's no way you couldn't hear the PS3 if it was doing the same fan-thing as mine. Unfortunately, standing it up didn't do jack for me

Mine's a 40GB model, so I guess it's newer. It remains relatively quiet, without much noise at all.

[mattmatt32]

I have a PS3 and a Samsung TV that will accept 24hz, but displays at 60hz. I notice the recommended PS3 settings say to set it to output 24hz if your TV accepts it. Mine accepts it, but doesn't display it at 24hz. Should I let the PS3 or the TV do the 3:2 pulldown, or does it matter?

I have an Optoma HD80 projector, and it also accepts 24Hz signals. But if I set the PS3 to automatically use that mode when playing Blu-ray movies to a capable device, it ends up never doing it. I have to set the mode on the PS3 to "On" instead of "Automatic". That forces the PS3 to send 24Hz signals to the projector when they are available, and that is the only way I can get the projector to go into that mode. I think the devices give up communicating too early when automatic mode is used.

[Hastor]

I have an Optoma HD80 projector, and it also accepts 24Hz signals. But if I set the PS3 to automatically use that mode when playing Blu-ray movies to a capable device, it ends up never doing it. I have to set the mode on the PS3 to "On" instead of "Automatic". That forces the PS3 to send 24Hz signals to the projector when they are available, and that is the only way I can get the projector to go into that mode. I think the devices give up communicating too early when automatic mode is used.

The "Automatic" setting outputs 24Hz to my 60Hz set that can receive 24Hz. I'm just leaving it there unless I hear a reason not to. Comparing directly, I can't notice much of a difference, but if I had to make a call I would say letting the TV convert to 60Hz MIGHT be slightly better, definitely not worse to my eyes. Then again I won't be surprised if some expert says I'm full of it. I definitely wouldn't be surprised to find they are the exact same end resulting picture.

BTW now I'm really confused about the RGB Limited/Full settings. It seems RGB Full makes the blacks in games blacker anyways, I dunno if that is how they are supposed to be or not though. Do display types usually treat them the same within the type? Like would LCD be more likely to use PC levels? At least I know it isn't affecting my BD's if the above post is right, but want my games to be right too.

Wish my eyes were as good as reviewer's here, well they are 20/20, but perhaps my brain doesn't analyze quite as closely (though moreso than my friends'). I think being mildly colorblind would affect my chances of being an HD reviewer as much as flying jets for the Air Force anyways :P

[AndersT2]

BTW: Since this thread is about sharing more tech info on product and I think one of the questions was about "PCM or bitstream": I, for one, am perfectly happy with PCM 7.1 passed digitally via HDMI straight from either the PS3 or Panasonic. I would have to think it's "myth" that bitstream would matter in this situation. Plus, since my receiver is a full-digital amp, nothing ever leaves the digital chain, and the clarity is fantastic. Panasonic has a newer (albeit less-pretty) receiver, BX500, which is also all-digital and decodes bitstream as well as PCM.

It's weird that so many people her a difference between where the dignal is decoded, including me.

In teory the signal should be absolutely the same. And for the straight forward decoding it is. BUT from the decoder chip (in most players, not the PS3), there is a signal path from it to the HDMI socket, with different components. And there is a difference in how different receivers do handle the PCM vs bitstream too.

If you have one of those ealiest receivers that only can handle PCM over HDMI, some of them, as I mentioned before, only amplifly the signal. And they can't handle any work on the signal. Like room correction, EQ, and anything else you have calibrated it to do. It can only do a kind of "Pure Direct", mode on it.

My own receiver, the Marantz AV8003. Takes both types. But can do everything it will on PCM and True HD, but not on DTS MA. It decodes it, but don't add room correction or anything. A 5.1 track can't be mixed to a 7.1 track in my system with DTS MA.

But since I mostly use my Samsung BD1500 for BDs, this will do. And even if my PS3 could play that disc (if not region restricted), it does sound a little better bitstreamed from the Samsung, than PCMed from the PS3.

But again, that's my ears

[MG15]

There are two things I have against the PS3, for the audio decoding of the DTS MA and Dolby True HD, it uses software based decoding. Allthough the decoding in any BD player for the HD formats to PCM theoreticly is the same, the components in the signal path do damage the signal.

You mean like how a lot of hardware decoders introduced the DTS "bomb"? Even hardware decoders aren't perfect.

[ajmrowland]

Well, my receiver's a 2003 model from before the dawn of HDMI, so anything's a major upgrade for me.

[mattmatt32]

The "Automatic" setting outputs 24Hz to my 60Hz set that can receive 24Hz.

What is your TV model number? It is possible that your TV accepts 24Hz, but then has to perform 3:2 pulldown conversion in order to display it at 60Hz (60 can't be divided by 24 into a whole number, 60/24=2.5).

If that is the case, then your choices are to either let the PS3 perform the pulldown for 24Hz material (by setting the output to 60Hz), or let it output at 24Hz and then the TV will do the pulldown to 60Hz.

If your TV is capable of displaying 120Hz, then it should not need to perform any pulldown (120/24=5). In that case you might see an improvement in sharpness and panning shots with 24Hz material. A quote from the article where I read about appears below: http://www.projectorcentral.com/opto...tor_review.htm .

"In theory, 1080p/24 is the cleanest signal you can have for transmitting Blu-ray and HD DVD content from a player to the projector. That is because the movie material on Blu-ray and HD DVD discs is encoded in 1080p at the film capture rate of 24 frames per second. If the player is capable of outputting this native format, and the projector is capable of receiving and displaying it without converting to 30 or 60 hertz variants, the image should be maintained in its most pristine original form. Contrary to common myth, the 1080p/60 format is not better, faster, cleaner, or in any way superior to 1080p/24 when it comes to film source reproduction. We have seen several projectors that have very sharp and stable images with 1080p/60 that are not improved by switching to 1080p/24. However, in the case of the Optoma HD80, incremental image sharpness is the most obvious immediate benefit. A secondary benefit is a subtle smoothing of horizontal motion judder, but superior image sharpness is by far the most valuable improvement."

Explanation of pulldown: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3:2_pulldown#2:3_pulldown .

[MongTheWise]

(make sure you don't set it to send Blu-ray as RGB). I have verified this through very careful checking on my own system.

I have a PS3 and a Sony Bravia 40" V series screen, and send My Blu-ray through RGB and find it brings a truer representation and sharpness, where-as when i send bluray as a Y/Cb/Cr signal I get continual picture ghosting in dark scenes (particularly in Nightmare Before Christmas) or even with people running through a jungle or indoors; As is most noticable on my LOST blurays.

I was getting extremely upset as i thought it was my TV that was having a image burning issue (as at this point i didnt understand the difference between plasma and LCD) but simply just changed the setting on my PS3 from Y/Cb/Cr to RGB and my picture was perfect.

What is it that you think we're doing differently?

[Josh Z]

I was getting extremely upset as i thought it was my TV that was having a image burning issue (as at this point i didnt understand the difference between plasma and LCD) but simply just changed the setting on my PS3 from Y/Cb/Cr to RGB and my picture was perfect.

What is it that you think we're doing differently?

The YCbCr gets converted to RGB before it ends up on the screen. I would assume that your TV does a lousy job of that conversion, and you're better off letting the disc player do it in this case.

[damonous]

...The other problem I have with the PS3, and this is the biggest, is the noise. When I first got it, I had it standing up, and the noise wasn't that bad. But now I have it laying down, and the noise is quite loud. You really don't realise how loud it is before you turn it off, and everything becomes totally quiet....

I use the PS3 and I have that same problem with the noise- when I'm watching something at night, the normal noise is okay, but occasionally the fans kick into high gear and the system gets a lot louder- that is when it gets really annoying. ...

I have my PS3 lying down in a cabinet, and it barely makes any noise at all. At least none that I notice....

Do you have a newer PS3? Mine is the original 60gb model, and according to damonous the newer ones are quieter. There's no way you couldn't hear the PS3 if it was doing the same fan-thing as mine. Unfortunately, standing it up didn't do jack for me

Realizing this is a rather late post to the thread, I still thought it a good idea to share my 'success story'... This discussion got me thinking even more about how much louder my 60gb had become, and you guys convinced me that I was not 'crazy' (especially AndersT2, who said that it "wasn't bad" when he first got it --that's the same as I recalled).

Anyway, this led me back to something I had seen on YouTube about the "PS3 Fan Test". Now, I don't recommend that (I actually did try it at one point). If you look at online photos depicting the way the primary Cell chip is positioned, and the enclosed heat pipe, as well as the location of the PS3's air holes near the bottom .... I doubt the problem lies there.

I did, however, find where my problem was (or rather, where the fault in the design of --at least the original-- PS3 is): If you open up the top of the PS3 (see the YouTube link below for a good walkthrough) -- a very simple 10-screw trick-- you will have a PS3 with an unsecured BD drive. At that point, gently lift your BD drive (mindful of an attached cable). You will then see the video and/or controller chips for the BD drive (one is covered in a pink heat-casing).

**On mine, these chips were infested with dust hanging around the edges!!! Enough so that you could consider that (while operating) it would have been like having a kleenex wrapped around the chips! Using a high-power mini-vac, it took me a good 2mins to suck all that sticky dust out. I then buttoned-up the entire PS3.

RESULT: The nice, passive, quiet PS3 I remember returned (and what I hear with my newer PS3's)! I still think the newer ones run a bit cooler, but definitely if the fan on your original 60gb or 20gb, etc. is running a lot louder than you remember (and you are well past the warranty period), take the 30mins to partially disassemble the PS3 and clean the top out.

--Mind you: I keep my PS3 in a relatively clean environment, with plenty of ventilation (more than 5-6 inches around every side). So, don't think that the dust I discovered had anything to do with my personal upkeep habits. There's just no good way to externally vacuum the area of the PS3 that I've described. If/when you open yours, you'll understand exactly what I'm talking about. They designed it well to ventilate and clean the bottom where the fan and the Cell are at. But the upper curve that houses the BD drive is not as well-designed for cleaning.

YouTube video on PS3 Partial-Disassembly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7e1i...eature=channel