ha, a bitstream vs lpcm test

[SLARITY]

Reading through the PS3 secrets page that was posted in another thread
http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html

Apparently the PS3 can bitstream AND LPCM an LPCM track.

So if you find a BD that has an LPCM track, then test the differences between bitstream and LPCM and see which one you think works better.

Unfortunatly I cannot do this, Im still using TOSLINK.

/edit I will check this but as I see it if you are using TOSLINK you really need to be bitsreaming for your best possible results.

[AmishFury]

Originally Posted by SLARITY

Reading through the PS3 secrets page that was posted in another thread
http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html

Apparently the PS3 can bitstream AND LPCM an LPCM track.

further down on the SAME PAGE in the hardware section

PS3 HDMI chip
The PS3 uses the Silicon Image SiI9132CBU, which transmits HDMI 1.3 protocols. It supports deep color and advanced audio transmission. The SiI9132 is unable to support bitstream transmission of Dolby TrueHD and dts-HD Master Audio, which is why for these two audio modes, the PS3 must do the transcoding itself and output LPCM. The paired receiving end chip with same feature set should be a SiI9133. The first Silicon Image chip that supported bitstream Dolby TrueHD and dts-HD Master Audio is the SiI9134 (with receiving end of SiI9135).

[SLARITY]

Originally Posted by AmishFury

further down on the SAME PAGE in the hardware section

and thats why i said to find a BD with an uncompressed (PCM) track

[rded]

Originally Posted by SLARITY

Reading through the PS3 secrets page that was posted in another thread
http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html

Apparently the PS3 can bitstream AND LPCM an LPCM track.

So if you find a BD that has an LPCM track, then test the differences between bitstream and LPCM and see which one you think works better.

Unfortunatly I cannot do this, Im still using TOSLINK.

/edit I will check this but as I see it if you are using TOSLINK you really need to be bitsreaming for your best possible results.

I heard no audible difference between bitstreamed PCM or LPCMed PCM on the PS3 via hdmi, because they're the same...I tested this with my old system- PS3 and onkyo 605 with Def tech procinema 1000. Did not play with this on my new system.

[SLARITY]

Originally Posted by rded

I heard no audible difference between bitstreamed PCM or LPCMed PCM on the PS3 via hdmi, because they're the same...I tested this with my old system- PS3 and onkyo 605 with Def tech procinema 1000. Did not play with this on my new system.

And thats exactly what I figured would happen. This is the best test we can possibly do because of the limitations of the HDMI chip in the PS3.

Good to know that LPCM any uncompressed track you cannot tell and one would assume TrueHD/DTSHDMA would be exactly the same.

[AmishFury]

oh i thought you were suggesting people attempt to bitstream DTS-HD and TrueHD... oh well it's what happens when i post without properly waking up

[Solstice X]

Originally Posted by SLARITY

And thats exactly what I figured would happen. This is the best test we can possibly do because of the limitations of the HDMI chip in the PS3.

Good to know that LPCM any uncompressed track you cannot tell and one would assume TrueHD/DTSHDMA would be exactly the same.

Why would it be any different? Audio encoders take the base PCM master and then zip it using DD TrueHD or DTS-HD MA. You would only use the latter to save space on the disc. Whether PCM, DD TrueHD, or DTS-HD MA it's still all the same thing when output from the speakers.

[SLARITY]

Originally Posted by Solstice X

Why would it be any different? Audio encoders take the base PCM master and then zip it using DD TrueHD or DTS-HD MA. You would only use the latter to save space on the disc. Whether PCM, DD TrueHD, or DTS-HD MA it's still all the same thing when output from the speakers.

I know but you always hear the people with $9999999595 receivers that swear bitstream sounds better.

[Solstice X]

Originally Posted by SLARITY

I know but you always hear the people with $9999999595 receivers that swear bitstream sounds better.

That would depend on the quality of the source component. A good receiver will always output PCM, DD TrueHD, and DTS-HD MA properly. A good player the decodes will do the same thing.

Where the claims are being made is that some players do a poor job with DD TrueHD, DTS-HD MA or even...PCM. A good example was the LFE issues with the Panasonic BD-10 and BD-30. While those issues have since been fixed, the case was made that bitstreaming to an AVR whose sole purpose is to play audio is better than taking the risk on the player not doing it right in the first place. If you have a PS3, I wouldn't worry, it's good when it comes to audio.

The other thing that was noted is that some of these receivers add post processing and better bass management than the player. Again, if you look at most of the players try adjusting your LFE crossover to anything less than 100hz.

There is more too it than, "hey, I paid $2000 for my reciever so bitstreaming sounds better." It's more like, " I trust my AVR to do a better job decoding than the player."

[crazzeto]

Originally Posted by SLARITY

Reading through the PS3 secrets page that was posted in another thread
http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html

Apparently the PS3 can bitstream AND LPCM an LPCM track.

So if you find a BD that has an LPCM track, then test the differences between bitstream and LPCM and see which one you think works better.

Unfortunatly I cannot do this, Im still using TOSLINK.

/edit I will check this but as I see it if you are using TOSLINK you really need to be bitsreaming for your best possible results.

You realize that what you're posting suggests that the PS3 can some how "decode" an LPCM track and send it to the AVR as......LPCM.....as opposed to....."Bistreaming" it.....

There's no difference dude, there's no decoding done. In all cases it's just shoving LPCM down the pipe, it's not a revelation.

[SLARITY]

OMG my Internet at work died. Guess I'll try to explain from my iPhone.

PCM-a digital representation of an analog signal (raw digital audio, like BDs have)

LPCM-an encoded PCM signal just used to transport the signal

Complicated explanation:
The ps3 encodes the uncompressed pcm track to transfer it to the receiver or it bitstrems the pcm track and the receiver lpcm's it to the dacs to go to the speakers. Therefor essentially the same thing but not identicle.

Simple version:
Why would ps3 have the option to bitstream OR lpcm an uncompressed PCM track


Now I may be wrong and I'll admit it. I just did the research on wiki and thisis how I understand it

[Mase]

I've done my own double blind tests (SPL matched and all) and came to the conclusion that Bitstream sounds better.. My brother in law, his dad and a few friends all thought the same thing, we tested my A35 and my brother in laws BD30, so we did both HD DVD and Blu-Ray and tested a few movies to boot, we chose ones that we knew and have heard many times..

Some people dont hear any difference and that is fine, but listen for yourself and if you have the means do what makes you happy..

[nismo604]

Funny this tread just came up, just last night I did a couple tests on bitstreaming vs. internal decoding for DTS and Dolby Digital, can't do any of the lossless codecs yet as I only have a PS3. The funny thing is with DTS I hear no difference between the PS3 decoding or the my Onkyo decoding, but with Dolby Digital bitstreaming to the AVR sounds better and fuller than letting the PS3 decode.

[MrAngles]

You can't bitstream PCM. Setting the PS3 to bitstream has no effect on how it transmits a PCM track whatsoever, it states this clearly in the instructions (at least on my 60 gig model it does). Notice that when you bitstream any non-PCM track you no longer get pop-up menu sounds during the movie, but if you switch to a PCM track you get the menu sounds back.

That said, I'm an advocate of in-player decoding, as I like to hear everything the studio puts on the disc, including simultaneous audio streams, which are not supported by bitstreaming. Unless TrueHD and DTS-HD MA are not actually bit-for-bit representations of the master, the only thing a external decoder could possibly do that an internal one does not, is add post-processing.

[SLARITY]

Originally Posted by MrAngles

You can't bitstream PCM.

Unfortunatly Im too lazy to get my book out at home and look that up but thats not what this website which seems to have all the answers says.

I was/am a believer that bitstrem/lpcm shouldnt make a difference, but without gear I obviously cannot test it to be 100% sure. I just brought this topic up because what I saw on the page linked in the OP.