120 Hertz TVs

[Averry]

WTF.

Best Buy always has these Samsungs set up on the end caps showing it off.


And this is the dialogue that they use.


"these run at 120 frames per second where other TV's run at 60 frames per second so that the 120 fps TV is always smooth"


Of course, nevermind that the film that's on the TV was shot at 24fps.

That means that it's 5 times the amount of frames per second that it was originally shot it.

Math aside, it looks like complete crap. It's jittery and the motion looks completely off.

It might be good for something or some use, maybe video games? I donno, but it OBVIOUSLY looks bad. I often change the settings on the TV it it looks just fine.

So why does Best Buy have a stick up it's ass about how great these TV's are?

[crazzeto]

First of all... Every good 120Hz TV will use a 5:5 pull down which means what you're seeing is effectivly 24FPS not 120FPS... Why would they post 120FPS? Because it just sounds much more impressive to the average customer to say you doubled the frame rate.

Secondly, try playing with the controls on the TV. I'm willing to bet you that the demo was actually running 60Hz with 2:3 pulldown. I saw such a demo at my local best buy on a samsung TOC TV, screen was split, one side was blurred the other was sharp and this was all in an effort to convince you that you need 120Hz.

I cycled through the inputs on the TV and when I came back upon the demo material I laughed my self silly to see it was running 60Hz.

[Averry]

I looked at the 120 hertz opiton, and you can pick, off, low, medium, or high.



Off looked just fine. When you turn it off and hit the info on the picture it said 60 hertz.


When put it on High, it looks all funky and jittery and says 120 hertz.


So no, I did figure out how to turn off whatever setting they had it on that was making it all funky.

I can tell the difference by LOOKING it at it, it doesn't look right. No way.

[Praetorian]

I looked at the 120 hertz opiton, and you can pick, off, low, medium, or high.

Off looked just fine. When you turn it off and hit the info on the picture it said 60 hertz.

When put it on High, it looks all funky and jittery and says 120 hertz.

So no, I did figure out how to turn off whatever setting they had it on that was making it all funky.

I can tell the difference by LOOKING it at it, it doesn't look right. No way.

If I'm not mistaken you can't turn the 120hz off. I think you're referring to AMP (Auto Motion Plus). I think the 120hz is always on, and you can play with the AMP settings, which are: low, medium, high, and off.

[crazzeto]

I looked at the 120 hertz opiton, and you can pick, off, low, medium, or high.



Off looked just fine. When you turn it off and hit the info on the picture it said 60 hertz.


When put it on High, it looks all funky and jittery and says 120 hertz.


So no, I did figure out how to turn off whatever setting they had it on that was making it all funky.

I can tell the difference by LOOKING it at it, it doesn't look right. No way.

You're probably talking about motion enhancers rather than 120Hz processing... You don't have modes for 1080P@24FPS, it will just accept the signal and use the proper pulldown, there are no modes.

If I'm not mistaken you can't turn the 120hz off. I think you're referring to AMP (Auto Motion Plus). I think the 120hz is always on, and you can play with the AMP settings, which are: low, medium, high, and off.

You're probably correct in your assesment but it's worth noting some TV's can force the 120Hz mode off, but I don't see why you would want to.

[Praetorian]

You're probably correct in your assesment but it's worth noting some TV's can force the 120Hz mode off, but I don't see why you would want to.

Right. I was just talking about the Samsung 6 series. You can't turn the 120hz off on those. But I'm almost 100% sure that you're right that on other brands you can force the 120hz off.

[TheGreenDude]

It's also so they can sell you a $300 "120 Hz" HDMI cable.

[crazzeto]

Right. I was just talking about the Samsung 6 series. You can't turn the 120hz off on those. But I'm almost 100% sure that you're right that on other brands you can force the 120hz off.

Ah, ok....

[HamsterDance]

It's also so they can sell you a $300 "120 Hz" HDMI cable.

$300 for a HDMI cable? I would never pay for this and I buy high quality electronics but that's only because I know I take good care of my stuff and my TV will last me at least five years and who knows how long for the audio equipment.

[Maxx_75]

Just to clear things up. A 120 frame rate monitor runs at 120 frames all of the time. It cannot be changed. Any settings are simple adjustments to the input signal. When all of the motion enhancers are Off the tv takes a 30f signal and just shows it 4 times in a row and takes a 24f signal and shows it 5 times in a row. This is what should happen and is great. That is why the 120 is the magic number. It is the lowest common denominator of the two. However where the trouble starts is when you apply proccesing to the signal. When you turn on the motion controls the tv MAKES UP FRAMES to put in the middle of the real frames. This is why the picture looks wierd.

p.s. All of those split screen demos are complete, total BS. You cannot control the frame rate of the tv at all nor can you change the proccessing of half of it. Total marketing BS. Just like when they show you Blu-ray on one side and DVD on the other. Cannot stress how much these split screens are total crap.

p.s.s. There is also nothing such as a 120 cable. The signal going over the cable is NEVER EVER more than 30 frames a sec. All Lies !

[Jon Liu]

hahaha $300 "120Hz" HDMI cable. In terms of 120Hz, I'm pretty sure you can't just switch it off no matter what TV. 120Hz refresh rate was utilized for LCDs because it was divisible by 24 (for 24fps content) and 30/60 (television and video content). In terms of looking different, it shouldn't look very different from watching it on a standard television with a lower refresh rate. The thing that makes it look different is the AMP (Auto Motion Plus for Samsung) and ME (Motion Enhancer for Sony). The frame interpolation algorithim will 'smooth' motion out, but for films they will look incredibly un-filmlike and it will also introduce digital artifacts into the picture occasionally.

[Jon Liu]

Looks like Maxx answered before me.

[Averry]

Just to clear things up. A 120 frame rate monitor runs at 120 frames all of the time. It cannot be changed. Any settings are simple adjustments to the input signal. When all of the motion enhancers are Off the tv takes a 30f signal and just shows it 4 times in a row and takes a 24f signal and shows it 5 times in a row. This is what should happen and is great. That is why the 120 is the magic number. It is the lowest common denominator of the two. However where the trouble starts is when you apply proccesing to the signal. When you turn on the motion controls the tv MAKES UP FRAMES to put in the middle of the real frames. This is why the picture looks wierd.

p.s. All of those split screen demos are complete, total BS. You cannot control the frame rate of the tv at all nor can you change the proccessing of half of it. Total marketing BS. Just like when they show you Blu-ray on one side and DVD on the other. Cannot stress how much these split screens are total crap.

p.s.s. There is also nothing such as a 120 cable. The signal going over the cable is NEVER EVER more than 30 frames a sec. All Lies !

Shazam!!!

So I can go in there and tell them what they're doing wrong with the damn thing. THey are putting the motion controls on super high so It looks real funky. If they leave it off, it is at 120 hertz, and is performing correctly.

[TheGreenDude]

Shazam!!!

So I can go in there and tell them what they're doing wrong with the damn thing. THey are putting the motion controls on super high so It looks real funky. If they leave it off, it is at 120 hertz, and is performing correctly.

lol... They WANT to show the "motion enhancement" - otherwise the only advantage to 120 Hz TV's (judder free motion) is barely noticeable and the masses coming to the store won't care. People ooh and aah over the artificial motion enhancement thinking it looks so great, and ignoring the many artifacts it introduces. It's all about selling you the "Ultra High Speed" monster HDMI cable that you "need" with your 120 Hz TV.

[Averry]

lol... They WANT to show the "motion enhancement" - otherwise the only advantage to 120 Hz TV's (judder free motion) is barely noticeable and the masses coming to the store won't care. People ooh and aah over the artificial motion enhancement thinking it looks so great, and ignoring the many artifacts it introduces. It's all about selling you the "Ultra High Speed" monster HDMI cable that you "need" with your 120 Hz TV.

Well of course, but there's nothing like giving em hell. It's just quite irking to watch them misinform everyone.