Displays that support 1080p/24 signal at multiplies of the original frame rate

[Arkadin]

HDTV1080p--I have a question about the 768p Kuro 5080 model. Now obviously this is not a 1080p set, but I understand that the 72hz option eliminates the judder by creating a 5:5 pull-down. So does this mean that you can still select the 1080p/24 option on your Blu-Ray player and that the set will just display at the native resolution while giving you the benefit of the 24fps "original intent" through this process? I am a bit confused on this issue.

[HDTV1080P]

The list has been updated and I edited the following post regarding NuVision.

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showpost.php?p=646487&postcount=62

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

HDTV1080p--I have a question about the 768p Kuro 5080 model. Now obviously this is not a 1080p set, but I understand that the 72hz option eliminates the judder by creating a 5:5 pull-down. So does this mean that you can still select the 1080p/24 option on your Blu-Ray player and that the set will just display at the native resolution while giving you the benefit of the 24fps "original intent" through this process? I am a bit confused on this issue.

The awesome thing about Pioneer is all their current 720P (768P actual) and 1080P models accept a 1080P/24 signal. For example the PDP-5080HD is really a 720P display (actually slightly better then 720P). When the Pioneer 720P display receives a 1080P/24 signal from a BLU-RAY or HD-DVD player it will downconvert the image to around 720P quality and then refresh the image on the screen at 72HZ. The Pioneer is performing a 3:3 pulldown with the 72HZ mode. A 5:5 pulldown can be found on select Sony LCD’s with a refresh rate of 120HZ.
Short answer to your question is yes you will eliminate the judder on the Pioneer PDP-5080HD with BLU-RAY but the screen resolution is around one million pixels 720P quality versus around 2 million pixels of a 1080P Pioneer Kuro model.

[ericball]

It's a more than a little disappointing that so few manufacturers properly support 24p, even as an option. I guess I'm going to wait for the spring/summer Sonys before buying.

However, one thought has occurred to me. Although film is shot at 24fps, it's actually displayed at 48fps, with each frame being shown twice. I recall reading once this was done to reduce flicker as the 48fps flashes of darkness weren't as noticable. I wonder if part of the problem with displaying 24fps on LCD is the image becomes effectively semi-static, even if the effective refresh is higher.

One final question - has anyone done a survey of pixel defect (and subpixel defect) policies?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by ericball

It's a more than a little disappointing that so few manufacturers properly support 24p, even as an option. I guess I'm going to wait for the spring/summer Sonys before buying.

However, one thought has occurred to me. Although film is shot at 24fps, it's actually displayed at 48fps, with each frame being shown twice. I recall reading once this was done to reduce flicker as the 48fps flashes of darkness weren't as noticable. I wonder if part of the problem with displaying 24fps on LCD is the image becomes effectively semi-static, even if the effective refresh is higher.

One final question - has anyone done a survey of pixel defect (and subpixel defect) policies?

In the USA when one purchases a TV that is labeled 1080P for the display section, one is guaranteed that it has over two million pixels with 1920 X 1080 P. Those standards are in place. What is a shame is that when 1080P/24 was introduced there should have been a standard set among manufactories where everyone should have agreed that the 3:2 pulldown process would be bypassed. Instead of a standard for true 1080P/24 most manufactories decided to make lower quality and lower priced displays that would simple refresh the 24 fps image incorrectly according to the way its done in the movie theater.
That is a good question about LCD screens. Currently all the flat panel LCD screens refresh 24fps at 60HZ or 120HZ on the screen. Maybe LCD screens would have a problem with 48fps rate. Many of the reasons why 120HZ is being used on LCD screens is to improve the picture quality. A Pioneer Plasma at 72HZ will run circles around a 120HZ LCD. I would like to see Pioneer or Panasonic comes out with a 120HZ Plasma one day. LCD’s would then try and go to 240HZ most likely.
I do not know off hand if anyone has done a survey or review on pixel defects.

[HDTV1080P]

Settings update on the Sony KDS-60A3000, KDS-55A3000, and KDS-50A3000.

There is a filter mode on the Sony SXRD rear projectors that softens the picture (resolution). In order to get full 1080P resoultion the Sony’s need to be placed in standard or Vivid mode. The Cinema and custom mode softens the picture.

QUOTE from February 2008 Home Theater magazine page 69.

“In the case of this TV, we picked Cinema mode. Turns out, a filter was applied to this and Custom mode that rather drastically softened the image. It wasn’t until after the Face Off that I discovered that the Standard and Vivid modes had full 1080p resolution. Therefore, if you have one of these TVs, use the Standard mode and match the settings from the Cinema mode (that is, lower the color temperature, turn off all the enhancement stuff, and put it in the Standard Color Space mode). This way, you’ll have the accuracy of Cinema mode, plus the detail of the Standard mode.”

The Pioneer 720P (actual 768P) Kuro PDP-5080HD has more detail and better picture quality then most 1080P Plasma and LCD flat panels

By far high-end front projectors offer the best in picture quality over any other display. Of course not everyone has a dedicated dark home theater room so a front projector is not a option for some. Flat panel plasma’s are the second best option. If one can not afford the price of one of the 1080P Pioneer Plasma screens then owning one of the 720P Pioneer Plasma is a good choice. A 720P Pioneer Plasma has more detail then most 1080P flat panel Plasma and LCD displays on the market. The reason for this is the ANSI contrast ratio on the kuro 720P Pioneer Plasmas is more then 11 times that of some other displays and more then double the next closes display according to Home Theater magazine’s face off. The contrast ratio on the Pioneer 720P (768P actual) is so good that it offers so much more detail in contrast that it does not need resolution to appear detailed. Every Pioneer from 720P to 1080P every made that offers a 1080P/24 input option refreshes the image correctly on the screen at 72HZ. 720P Pioneer’s downconvert 1080P/24 to 720P quality (around 768P actual)
Resolution is only one factor of the picture quality. Most people seat so far away from the screen that they can not see the difference between 1080P and 720P unless they own a 60 inch display or larger. 1080P does look much better then 720P if you seat close enough to the screen. Home Theater magazine ran a face off between 6 1080P displays and 1 Pioneer 720P display and by far the Pioneer had the best picture quality do to its awesome black levels. ANSI contrast ratio’s can sometimes offer more detail in the picture then resolution. This list still will only include 1080P models but the fact is some 720P models will out perform 1080P in picture quality.

Quote From Home theater magazine. February 2008 page 74 and 76 (regarding the Pioneer PDP-5080HD)

Quote
“…the PDP-5080HD had the highest contrast ratio in the Face Off, in some cases by several times. Its ANSI contrast ratio was 11 times that of the Samsung and more then double that of the next closest display. Onscreen, this was completely visible.”

“Your eye is fooled into seeing detail when it is really seeing contrast. Think of what you would use to see detail, say, a wrinkle on a face. You see the wrinkle because it’s in shadow compared to the rest of the face. Well, on the PDP-5080HD, that shadow was so much more realistic that it didn’t need resolution to appear detailed. Seeing as it’s highly doubtful you’d ever sit three times the picture height away from a 50-inch TV (less then 6 feet, in this case) 768P is more then enough.”

[timbobarry]

Have the KDL-46V3000 and it does do 24Hz but it makes it worse. So much flickering, recommend anyone who has this model to just turn it off in your player.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by timbobarry

Have the KDL-46V3000 and it does do 24Hz but it makes it worse. So much flickering, recommend anyone who has this model to just turn it off in your player.

The KDL-V3000 is a 60HZ display that has a good picture quality for 1080P/60 material but no benefits for 1080P/24 material. Your player does a better job of converting 24fps to 60fps compared to the 3:2 pulldown process in the Sony. Thanks for the information about your experience with the display.

[GardenVariety]

Does anyone know the refresh rate of the Sanyo Z2000 displays at 1080p/24?

[GardenVariety]

Just called Sanyo about this question and their response was "I have no idea, why do you want to know?" WTF!!!

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by GardenVariety

Does anyone know the refresh rate of the Sanyo Z2000 displays at 1080p/24?

I think the Sanyo Z2000 displays 1080P/24 material at 60HZ but I am not sure. If I come across any future professional review that mentions that it properly refreshes 1080P/24 material at multiplies of the original frame I will then add it to the list.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by GardenVariety

Does anyone know the refresh rate of the Sanyo Z2000 displays at 1080p/24?

Here is a review on the Sanyo PLV-Z2000 that just came out. Sanyo makes ok to good low cost items. The review does not mention how the Sanyo handles 1080P/24 but at this low price it most likely only refreshes it at 60HZ.
http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojec...000/index.html

[GardenVariety]

Well "low cost" I guess, it was a $2500.00 projector. I still have no real confirmation but I tend to also think that it does a 3:2 pulldown and refreshes it at 60HZ just by the looks of the screen. It does appear to have less judder at 24HZ but maybe that's just because it's doing a good job at the pulldown.

[GardenVariety]

HDtv1080, in your opinion what is the best plasma/lcd 50"-55 bang for the buck (under $3000)?

[Crypter]

HDTV1080p.... please take a look at my question in this thread and let me know what you think.