Displays that support 1080p/24 signal at multiplies of the original frame rate

[Blinx123]

Doesn't the Samsung M8 support 1080/24p at the multiple of the original frame rate?

I don't know how it's named in the USA ( most of the Samsung TVs get a new name when coming to Europe) but I can check.

EDIT: Hm, couldn't find the M8 actually but the predecessor.

http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/d...=LNT5281FX/XAA

And that's how the German M8 looks (the American predecessor is named F9 and looks the same as the US F8)

http://av.samsung.de/article.asp?art...9-BC5BCE662D1F

[HDTV1080P]

I am waiting for someone to do a professional review on the 120HZ Samsungs. My understanding is they use a 3:2 pulldown process. There is rumors that in the future they may offer a firmware update for 5:5 pulldown feature. As soon as I get more information on the Samsung’s I will post it. For right now I am not sure how they handle the 1080P/24 signal. All of their non 120HZ flat panel and rear projection dispalys that accept a 1080P/24 signal refresh 1080P/24 at 60HZ.

[Blinx123]

Yeah but in good old Europe they already know that. Looked into multiple forums and all of them said it would handle it with 48Hz.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Blinx123

Yeah but in good old Europe they already know that. Looked into multiple forums and all of them said it would handle it with 48Hz.

If your talking about the US Samsung LN-T5281F it uses a 3:2 pulldown process and incorrectly processes 1080P/24 to 60HZ instead of the multiplies of the original frame method. All Samsung flat panel 60HZ displays use 3/2 pulldown, it is just the 120HZ models that I am not sure about.

Quote
“The Samsung will accept a 1080p/24 input, but it converts it internally to 1080p/60 prior to display. Whether you will be better off simply changing the output resolution on your high-definition player to 1080p/60 to begin with will depend on which device—the player or the set—does a better job in converting 1080p/24 to 1080p/60. It's likely you won't see any difference.”
http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/1207sam5281/index2.html Also the Europe models will be 50HZ and 100HZ instead of 60HZ and 120HZ.

[Blinx123]

Ah ok. Sorry. Than I missinterpretet some things that were written in the German Hifi-Forum. I read something like "Samsung M8 gets 24p update" but as it looks the only thing which got updatet is that it now can properly recalculate from 24Hz to 60Hz so that the pure eye won't see a difference (unlike other brands in which the pure eye can locate the judderfest obviously good.)

[HDTV1080P]

The Marantz VP-11S1BL and VP-15S1 DLP 1080P Front projectors have been added to the list

The older VP-11S1BL with a new firmware update will accept a 1080P/24 signal input and flash it on the screen at 48fps (HZ).

quote
“According to Marantz's Dan Miller there is already a firmware update in the works that will allow the VP-11S1 to show 1080/24p sources at 48fps, which as a multiple of film's 24fps eliminate the temporal distortions that occur in converting to 60fps.”
http://www.guidetohometheater.com/videoprojectors/506marantzvp11s1/index1.html

The new Marantz VP-15S1 according to the review starting on page 74 of the January 2008 Perfect Vision magazine also refreshes 1080P/24 material at 48HZ.

Quote from page 75 of January 2008 Perfect Vision magazine
“The Marantz is able to avoid applying 3:2 pulldown because it can run at more than one speed. When fed a 1080P/24 signal, it doubles the frame rate and displays the image at 48fps. Each frame is flashed twice (which is also what film projectors do). “

[HDTV1080P]

The following Sony Rear projectors have been removed from the list since they have been cancled before being released

Sony KDS-Z70XBR5
Sony KDS-Z60XBR5

Sony has officially canceled all Rear projector screens which includes both the 3 LCD and SXRD models. I will remove all the Sony rear projectors from the list once inventories are depleted from retail stores and discount mail order companies. The purpose of the list is to keep true 1080P/24 displays on the list that can still be found for purchase. More details about Sony’s business decision can be read at the following link

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6514401.html

Many people were waiting to purchase the new Sony 70 inch SXRD rear projector that has just been canceled. Last years 70 inch Sony rear projector cost $4,000-$5,000 on clearance. If you want a Sony 70 inch now your only choice is a $32,999 LCD screen that does not have as good of black levels and response times.
For $33,000 I can get an excellent front projector that will run circles around the 70 inch BRAVIA LCD flat panel. Sony needs to try and lower the cost on the 70” LCD flat panel if possible. I would rather get the Pioneer Elite 60 inch Plasma for $7,500 (list price).
Most consumers when they saw flat panels at retail they liked the brighter thinner screens compared to the large big rear projector. They were willing to purchase the more expensive LCD and Plasma screens at a higher price. Just because the screen looks brighter does not mean LCD’s have a better picture. The reality is rear projectors like the Sony SXRD have a 2.5ms response time and better black levels. I would choose a rear projector over a LCD flat panel any day for serious movie watching. Some SXRD consumers shopping in the future for a new display will now decide to either replace or upgrade their displays with either a Pioneer Elite Plasma or a Sony ceiling mounted Front Projector SXRD screen.

For those that want a Sony SXRD rear projector with a true 1080P/24 120HZ feature you will need to purchase it now since inventories will be depleted soon. Here is a comparison of prices between rear projectors and flat panel LCD and Plasma screens

The Sony KDS-60A3000 60 inch can be purchased for around $1815 from various discount mail order companies. Discontinued rear projector
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-984807/TVs/Sony-Bravia-KDS-60A3000-Compare-Prices?other_hits=%3B%3B25%3B&q=sony+kds-60a3000

Once the Sony 60 inch is sold out the only current choice in a 60 inch flat panel with true 1080P/24 refresh rates is the Pioneer. The Pioneer Elite 60 inch Plasma can be found for around $7,000
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-1017165/TVs/Pioneer-Elite-PRO-150FD-Compare-Prices?other_hits=%3B%3B19%3B&q=pioneer+pro-150fd

There is the 60 inch Pioneer PDP-6010FD Plasma which can be found for around $4400.
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-993059/TVs/Pioneer-PDP-6010FD-Compare-Prices?q=pdp-6010fd

The Sony KDS-55A3000 55 inch can be purchased for around $1623. Discontinued rear projector
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-984825/TVs/Sony-Bravia-KDS-55A3000-Compare-Prices?other_hits=%3B%3B25%3B&q=sony+kds-55a3000

For under $1400 the Sony KDS-50A3000 50 inch can be purchased from some locations Discontinued rear projector
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-984830/TVs/Sony-Bravia-KDS-50A3000-Compare-Prices?other_hits=%3B%3B25%3B&q=sony+kds-50a3000

Or one can choose the Sony KDL-52XBR5 52 inch flat panel for around $3649
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-983416/TVs/Sony-KDL-52XBR5-Compare-Prices?q=kdl-52xbr5

The Pioneer PRO-110FD 50 inch Elite Plasma can be found for under $4,500
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-1017150/TVs/Pioneer-Elite-PRO-110FD-Compare-Prices?q=pro-110fd

The Pioneer PDP-5010FD 50 inch Plasma can be found for under $3400.
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-991611/TVs/Pioneer-PDP-5010FD-Compare-Prices?q=pdp-5010fd


Looking at the above prices you can see that prices are going to shoot up very fast once rear projectors are gone from the market. The Sony 70 inch SXRD rear projector use to sale for $4,000-$5,000 on clearance and now if you want a 70 inch Sony you will be paying $32,999 for a flat panel LCD. To be fair the Sony KDL-70XBR3 can be found for around $28,000 from discount Internet companies. The KDL-70XBR3 appears to only have a 1080P/60 input no 1080P/24 input.
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-888055/TVs/Sony-Bravia-KDL-70XBR3-Compare-Prices?q=kdl-70xbr3

[mondayshift]

just got my Sharp Aquos replaced today and now the display say's 24Hz. i don't know if this means it's actually playing it or just receiving it? my PS3 is set to auto 1080p/24hz. it would be cool to know if it is playing 24Hz.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by mondayshift

just got my Sharp Aquos replaced today and now the display say's 24Hz. i don't know if this means it's actually playing it or just receiving it? my PS3 is set to auto 1080p/24hz. it would be cool to know if it is playing 24Hz.

Your Sharp info screen is showing that it accepts a 1080P/24 signal. The Sharp then takes that signal and uses a 3:2 pulldown process to convert the image to 60HZ. You can place the Playstation 3 on 1080P/60 to compare which device does a better job of converting the image to 60HZ. The Sharp might have a better 3:2 pulldown process compared to the 3:2 pulldown in the PS3. The 3:2 pulldown circuit might be so good in both devices that you will not be able to tell the difference between 24HZ or 60HZ. A 1080P display that refreshes at 60HZ for 1080P/24 signals can still have a great picture quality even though camera pans and fast moving images will have a slight judder on the screen do to the 3:2 pulldown process.

[Damian]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Also the Europe models will be 50HZ and 100HZ instead of 60HZ and 120HZ.

Could you please explain me something: how is possible that a 50HZ and 100HZ HDTV can correctly display 29.97 NTSC shows and DVDs, 59.94 Xbox videogames and tv shows (NFL etc) and 24 FPS HD discs ???

[glocks out]

Originally Posted by Damian

Could you please explain me something: how is possible that a 50HZ and 100HZ HDTV can correctly display 29.97 NTSC shows and DVDs, 59.94 Xbox videogames and tv shows (NFL etc) and 24 FPS HD discs ???

The same way we watch 24fps films on 60Hz sets. Processing.

[HDTV1080P]

Here is a review link for the Optoma HD81-LV that has been added to the list.
http://www.projectorreviews.com/optoma/hd81-lv/index.php

The review does not mention how it handles 1080P/24 material but from one of my sources I have learned that it uses the exact same method as the HD-81 and refreshes 1080P/24 material at 48HZ. It is the same as the HD-81 but a brighter version.

[HDTV1080P]

The Sony SXRD KDS-60A3000, KDS-55A3000, and KDS-50A3000 refresh rates have been updated.

As mentioned before Sony no longer makes rear projectors and once stores run out of them they are gone for good. A professional review by Thomas J Norton was just published recently on the KDS-50A3000 over at UltimateAVmag.com. The 60, 55, and 50 inch Sony’s listed above in blue use the exact same instruction manual and are exactly the same accept for screen size, weight and dimensions. All 3 rear projectors refresh 1080P/24 material at 96HZ by doing a 4:4 pulldown when both motion enhancer and Motion Naturalizer are turned off. 60HZ material is refreshed at 120HZ.

Quote
“Motion blur is not as significant an issue on an SXRD (or LCoS) display as it is in many flat panel LCDs, but it is more prevalent than on a DLP or plasma set. As one of the new 120Hz displays, the Sony KDS-50A3000 offers two features designed to minimize motion blur: Motion Enhancer and Motion Naturalizer.”
“Sony's literature and manual are both vague in describing what each of these features does. But I scoped out a bit more detail from Sony HQ. With both of them turned off, the set converts a 60 frames per second (fps) source (a 60Hz refresh rate) to 120fps by simply repeating a each frame a second time. For a 24fps source, the set repeats each frame four times to produce 96fps.


Some of the reasons why LCOS (SXRD) is better quality then LCD

Quote
“SXRD and LCoS designs offer a number of advantages over plain LCD. Their panels are much thinner and thus less prone to generating motion lag, even though the light passes through the panel twice. And in LCoS and SXRD all the electronic circuits are located behind the reflective surface, where they don't interfere with the layout of the pixels. In LCD panels the control wires must pass through the spaces between the pixels, which makes for wider gaps and a more obvious screen door effect in the image.
If SXRD and LCoS are superior realizations of LCD technology, why has LCD become dominant? Two reasons. First, reflective technologies like LCoS and SXRD can't be used in flat panel designs. Second, LCoS and SXRD panels are far more complex than basic LCDs. It took years before manufacturers learned to produce them economically, reliably, and in quantity.
As with all SXRD displays, the KDS-50A3000 uses three separate SXRD panels, one each for red, green, and blue. So unlike single-chip DLP designs there is no rotating color wheel to generate rainbow artifacts.”
Link to review
http://ultimateavmag.com/rearprojectiontvs/1207sony3000/index.html

[HDTV1080P]

The following Sony LCD flat panels have been added to the list and are scheduled to arrive in Spring or Summer 2008.

Sony KDL-37XBR6

Sony KDL-32XBR6
Sony KDL-52W4100
Sony KDL-46W4100
Sony KDL-40W4100
Sony KDL-46Z4100
Sony KDL-40Z4100

Quote from twice
“Among the Bravia LCD TVs Sony is introducing are a 32- and 37-inch models in the high-end XBR 6 series. The KDL-32XBR6 and KDL-37XBR6 will ship this summer at prices to be announced. Both feature 1080p resolution, 120Hz MotionFlow high frame-rate technology, DLNA compliance, DMP connection, 24p input compatibility, a 3D graphic user interface, DMeX ready, and four HDMI inputs, two component video inputs and a PC input. Both are also Bravia Sync (HDMI-CEC) capable.”
“The Bravia Z4100 series shipping this spring will include models in the 40- and 46-inch screen sizes. Both feature ultra-slim bezels and thin cabinet depths.Both Full HD 1080p resolution, 120Hz MotionFlow frame rates, 24p input, 3D graphic user interface, DMeX capability, and four HDMI inputs, two component video inputs and a PC input. Both are also Bravia Sync (HDMI-CEC) capable.”

“The three models in W4100 series will ship this spring, and include the 40-, 46- and 52-inch screen sizes. All will have Bravia Engine 2 signal processing, 1080p resolution, 120Hz MotionFlow frame rates, 24p input capability, a 3-D graphic user interface and DMeX capability, as well as and four HDMI inputs, two component video inputs and a PC input. All are also Bravia Sync (HDMI-CEC) capable.”
http://www.twice.com/article/CA6516822.html

[supra2jzgte]

Right now, I have my PS3 to force 24Hz/24p for BD playback ON.

My TV says, Input is: 1920x1080p

Vertical: 24Hz

I do notice some difference in motion, no blur. When I put it back to 60Hz, there is a slight blur. Not much of a difference.

How can I tell if it is doing TRUE 24P???

Is my TV reconverting it back to 1080p/60Hz?