Displays that support 1080p/24 signal at multiplies of the original frame rate

[pat00139]

Anybody know how the new Samsung TVs (XX69, XX71 and kinda the XX81) process the 24p frame rate? I'm really curious about this as I'm eyeing them for my next set. Thanks.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by pat00139

Anybody know how the new Samsung TVs (XX69, XX71 and kinda the XX81) process the 24p frame rate? I'm really curious about this as I'm eyeing them for my next set. Thanks.

I am waiting for a professional review on the Samsungs. The rumor I have heard is that the Samsungs currently only interpolate frames instead of using the multiplies of the original frame process. There is a rumor that Samsung is working on a firmware update so their 120HZ sets will do a true 5:5 pulldown. Again these are only rumors and it might be incorrect information. A professional review might not be written on the Samsungs by someone until December or later.

[pat00139]

Thanks. I'll be looking forward to those reviews, and thanks for the list. It's really helpful.

[JU1CYFRU1T]

I think that this list is great... but I would honestly prefer a list that was only 120 hz. And since it's VERY easy to find those on the list, I'm not complaining.

The reason that I would only want a 120 Hz display, is because I want ALL my video in it's native refresh rate... not just my HD content. Since TV signals are still broadcast at 30 or 60 Hz, I want a display that can equally display those refresh rates.

I don't want to get rid of judder in my HD media, only to introduce it in my TV signal. Maybe the telicline process doesn't have the same problems in reverse... but I don't see why that would be.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by JU1CYFRU1T

I think that this list is great... but I would honestly prefer a list that was only 120 hz. And since it's VERY easy to find those on the list, I'm not complaining.

The reason that I would only want a 120 Hz display, is because I want ALL my video in it's native refresh rate... not just my HD content. Since TV signals are still broadcast at 30 or 60 Hz, I want a display that can equally display those refresh rates.

I don't want to get rid of judder in my HD media, only to introduce it in my TV signal. Maybe the telicline process doesn't have the same problems in reverse... but I don't see why that would be.

I agree some 120HZ displays are great since some 120HZ displays will accept both a 60HZ and 24HZ signal and display it at multiplies of the original frame rate until 120HZ is reached.
Who knows several years from now someone might make a 240HZ display that both 60 and 24 goes evenly into to try and eliminate judder and make the image look smooth. Then one would have 10:10 pulldown for 1080P/24 material with 60HZ material frame doubled 4X.

[pat00139]

I remember hearing that the Sony KDLXXW3000 can drop down to 24hz (it's regularly 60hz, but can process 24p). Should that TV be added to the list?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by pat00139

I remember hearing that the Sony KDLXXW3000 can drop down to 24hz (it's regularly 60hz, but can process 24p). Should that TV be added to the list?

As far as I am aware all the US models of Sony that properly display 1080P/24 are on the list. That includes all 120HZ Sony displays. Now Sony makes non 120HZ flat panels that display 1080P/24 material at 60HZ (those are not on the list). I tried searching for the KDLXXW3000 and could not find info on it.

[pat00139]

For what it's worth, Sony's site has the TV able to show at 24fps...
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665119487

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by pat00139

For what it's worth, Sony's site has the TV able to show at 24fps...
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665119487

Thanks for the link, I now know the exact model your talking about. This display accepts a 1080P/24 input but only displays the image at 60HZ as far as I am aware and that is why it is not on the list. When and if a professional review comes out for this display I will be watching to make sure it does not refresh at 48HZ and bypass the 3:2 pulldown. Every display on the market that has a 1080P/24 input will either refresh the image at the improper 60HZ using 3:2 pulldown or they will use the correct method of multiplies of the original frame (48HZ, 72HZ, 96HZ, 120HZ, etc). No display refreshes at 24fps because the image would be unwatchable with a visible flicker.

[pat00139]

Ah, okay. The guy at the Sony store didn't know what he was talking about, then. I asked hime how it could handle 24p, given the tv refreshes at 60hz. He said it went down to 24hz.

It's also curious because all of the other Sony TVs working at 60Hz don't have the '24p' capability, according to the Sony website. Interesting. I guess we'll have to wait for reviews.

[Monty HD]

Just FYI. Fry's has got there A3000 for $600 off. You can get a 60" for $1599. Great deal!!! I got one and the PQ is amazing. It is as if you are on the field playing the game or in the Movie. Bourne was just freaky! POTC DMC was incredible.

[HDTV1080P]

Update on the Sony VPL-VW200 refresh rate when a 1080P/24 signal is applied (192HZ refresh rate)

According to the excellent review of the Sony VPL-VW200 at UltimateAVmag.com the Sony VPL-VW200 panel does a 4:4 pulldown for 1080P/24 material and then is refreshed at 192HZ on the screen. So when both the “motion enhancer option” is turned off and the “film projection option” is turned off the VPL-VW200 panel will perform frame multiplication at 96HZ when a 1080P/24 signal is applied. 60HZ material will be converted to 120HZ by the panel. Then once the panel is finished converting the frame rate the actual image is refreshed on the screen at 192HZ for 1080P/24 material and 240HZ for 60HZ material. When motion enhancer is turned on the projector has a smoothing effect that makes film look like 60HZ video using interpolation of new frames. The Black frame insertion is a unique feature of this projector which is part of the “Film projection option” that can be turned off and on. Film projection option uses dark or black frame insertion (see review link for more details about black frame insertion)
This Sony VPL-VW200 is an excellent quality projector for $15,000. The Xenon bulb this projector uses has a beautiful color spectrum. With the bulb estimating half life at 2500 hours this $999 bulb is expensive to replace. Hopefully one day someone will figure out how to make a Xenon bulb that costs $300-$500 and lasts at least 3000 hours. Replacing bulbs every year or two for $999 can get expensive.

Information source

Following quotes come from this review link http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/1207sonyvw200/index.html

Quote
“The VPL-VW200 can operate at frame rates of up to 120Hz. When it receives a source 1080p/24 frames per second (Hz) or 1080p/60 fps (Hz), it upconverts it to either 96Hz or 120Hz.”

“If you turn off both the Film Projection and Motion Enhancer features, the extra frames needed to upconvert the source frame rate to 96Hz or 120Hz are produced simply by repeating frames. For more detail on the Motionflow feature, see "Poetry in Motion?" at the end of this review.”
“Sony also states that an SXRD display actually refresh at twice the frame rate. That means that when the panel receives a source that has been converted to 120Hz, the image is refreshed 240Hz. For 96Hz, it's 192Hz.”
See the following Poetry in Motion link for above quote in blue
http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/1207sonyvw200/index3.html

[mondayshift]

can a TV that didn't support 1080p/24 be able to support it via FW? talking specifically about Sharps new Aqous LC-XXD64U LCDs.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by mondayshift

can a TV that didn't support 1080p/24 be able to support it via FW? talking specifically about Sharps new Aqous LC-XXD64U LCDs.

In theory if the hardware is capable of 24HZ input then a firmware update would be possible. So far only select Front projectors have had a firmware update to offer 1080P/24 input.

[mondayshift]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

In theory if the hardware is capable of 24HZ input then a firmware update would be possible. So far only select Front projectors have had a firmware update to offer 1080P/24 input.

i see. thanks.