Displays that support 1080p/24 signal at multiplies of the original frame rate

[HDTV1080P]

4 new Pioneer 2008 1080P Plasma’s have been added to the list

Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-111FD 50” Plasma (72HZ) ($5,000 manufactories suggested list price)
PRO-111FD.pdf

Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-151FD 60” Plasma (72HZ) ($6,500 manufactories suggested list price)
PRO-151FD.pdf

Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD 50” Plasma (72HZ) ($4,000 manufactories suggested list price) PDP-5020.pdf

Pioneer Kuro PDP-6020FD 60” Plasma (72Hz) ($5,500 manufactories suggested list price) PDP-6020.pdf

Some Positive comments about the new Pioneer Plasma displays:

I am glad to hear that the new 9th generation Pioneer Plasmas will have 5X deeper black levels compared to the discontinued 8th generation Pioneer Kuro’s. Of course we will need to wait for a professional review to see how much better quality picture the 9th generation Kuro’s really are. When comparing last years top of the line 60 inch Elite to this year’s 60 inch Elite one will soon discover that not only is this year’s Kuro in theory a better quality picture but also Pioneer was able to do it at $1,000 cheaper. The PDP-150FD list price was $7,500 and the new PDP-151FD is only $6,500. This will make some consumers happy.

Negative comments about the new Pioneer Plasma displays:

It is great consumers can purchase a 5X deeper black Pioneer Plasma at a cheaper price. The $1,000 cheaper price on the Elite 60 inch comes at a price. Pioneer to cut costs eliminated features from its 2008 Kuro line. The first feature that is missing from the new 2008 Kuro displays is the one way cable card technology. On the 2007 models one could use the built in tuner in the Pioneer and subscribe to premium movie channels without the need to rent a external cable box. Most other manufactories have eliminated the cable card from their product also. One problem with the one way cable card technology is that one still needed a cable box for Video on demand and PPV movies. There is a two way cable card technology available now but all display manufactories so far have decided not to include 2 way QAM tuners with cable card technology and only a few companies still offer one way cable card slots. Cable card features over the years has been known to add several hundred dollars to the cost of a display when the technology was first introduced. Hopefully in the future manufactories will move to a cheaper better two way software downloadable version that is integrated in displays.
Another cost-cutting feature removed from the 2008 Kuro line is the fact they now only have 2 tuners instead of 3. Last years Kuro line had 1 ATSC/QAM tuner with 2 NTSC tuners. This years Kuro has 1 ATSC/QAM tuner and 1 NTSC tuner. Of course on Feb 17th 2009 all over the air broadcasts are switching to ATSC and the NTSC tuner for people that do not have cable TV will not be a issue. The NTSC tuner will still be used on some cable systems for a few more years until cable companies switch to 100% QAM. So if you are really into Picture and Picture there is now only two tuners instead of three tuners.
Dropping the cable card and one NTSC tuner are minor issues for me. The picture quality is the most important thing I am concerned about. One low cost feature that is missing that could not have cost more than $30 is the fact that the built in RF antenna/cable A/B switch on the new Pioneer Plasmas is eliminated. Instead of 2 RF inputs this years models only have one RF input. On last year’s 2007 Kuro models there was a built in RF A/B switch that allows one to switch between cable TV and an outdoor/indoor antenna. This small low cost feature really bothers me. Of course most people watch either satellite or cable TV and do not bother with a outdoor antenna. Local HD broadcasts using an indoor/outdoor antenna usually is better quality then what the satellite and cable company provide. Now this years Kuro owners that have both cable TV without the cable box and a indoor/outdoor antenna will need to purchase a remote control RF A/B switch at Radio Shack for around $40. I wish manufactories would not eliminate low cost features that are important to some people.
Another feature that is missing this year is the free interactive on screen TV guide. For those that rent a cable box or subscribe to satellite TV this is not a big issue. That was just a few of the things I noticed that is missing from this years Kuro line. If one connects a cable box or satellite receiver to the display one will not notice most of these features are missing. Since I watch mostly BLU-RAY’s I do not rent or own a satellite receiver or cable box.
Another thing that is missing is last years model had 2 component video inputs but this year there is only 1 component input. All the other inputs like 4 HDMI, 3 composite, and 1 S-Video are exactly the same compared to last years model. Many years ago it use to be that for every composite video input there was also one S-Video jack per composite video jack. For example the Pioneer Kuro has 3 composite video jacks for legacy 480I equipment but it only has 1 S-Video jack. It would be nice to have a shared S-Video jack on each one of those 3 composite video jacks. There are people that still own legacy S-VHS machines and other equipment that would like to see 3 S-Video inputs that are shared with 3 composite inputs. It seems to be the tread on all brands and models of TV’s to either eliminate the legacy 480I S-Video jack or to only include one S-Video jack.
This years Ethernet connection on the Elite Kuro is still only 100Mbps per second. It would have been ideal to have a 1000Mbps Ethernet connection for those that have gigabyte wired home networks.

I actually wish Pioneer would raise the cost $1,000 on the Plasmas and bring back some neat feature that I like. It appear that this years model is not SimplayHD certified also. Over all most consumers will prefer the lower price with less features compared to last years models.

** All above comparisons were made using the above Pioneer official spec sheets for the 9th generation models. My only hope is that the spec sheets are wrong and when the final product is released that some of the features I like on the 8th generation 2007 models will still be on the 9th generation Pioneer 2008 models. **


UPDATE:
The comments above originally posted on May 16th 2008 regarding features that were removed are correct. Below is a update to the offical spec sheets that was just released by Pioneer.

4 new Pioneer 2008 1080P Plasma’s officially have been released (link to Pioneer PDF spec sheets updated)

Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-111FD 50” Plasma (72HZ) ($5,000 manufactories suggested list price) http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/PRO-111FD.pdf

Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-151FD 60” Plasma (72HZ) ($6,500 manufactories suggested list price) http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/PRO-151FD.pdf

Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD 50” Plasma (72HZ) ($4,000 manufactories suggested list price) http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/PDP-5020FD.pdf

Pioneer Kuro PDP-6020FD 60” Plasma (72Hz) ($5,500 manufactories suggested list price) http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/PDP-6020FD.pdf

[Gennew]

So... with my KDL-40W4100 I should leave Motion Enhancer off to get the picture refreshed at 120hz? Does Motion Enhancer change this?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Gennew

So... with my KDL-40W4100 I should leave Motion Enhancer off to get the picture refreshed at 120hz? Does Motion Enhancer change this?

When watching BLU-RAY movies from a 1080P/24 player if you like the look of film then you should have motion enhancer off for that HDMI input. Now when watching everything else then motion enhancer can sometimes improve the picture quality with 60HZ sources. Check out this link for more information.
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showpost.php?p=961476&postcount=166

The picture is always refreshed at 120HZ. With motion enhancer off each frame is repeated to reach 120HZ. With motion enhancer on it creates new frames from existing frames by interpolation technique.

[Gennew]

Thanks for the info. According to the link, is interpolation the manipulation/alteration of a frame with motion enhancer on and with it off the frame is unchanged and just repeated? So with my xbox 360 HD-DVD drive I should use motion enhancer since the output is 1080p/60?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Gennew

Thanks for the info. According to the link, is interpolation the manipulation/alteration of a frame with motion enhancer on and with it off the frame is unchanged and just repeated? So with my xbox 360 HD-DVD drive I should use motion enhancer since the output is 1080p/60?

Yes with motion enhancer off the 24fps and 60fps is just repeated until it reaches the 120HZ native refresh rate of the display. Interpolation of new frames occurs when motion enhancer is turned on. With 60HZ sources sometimes motion enhancer being turned on it improves the quality. Some people prefer to leave motion enhancer off all the time even on 60HZ sources since it creates artifacts in the picture sometimes. Again to get the film quality look from BLU-RAY motion enhancer should be turned off. Here is a link to a review on the Sony XBR4 that goes into more details on motion enhancer and how it works. http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/907sonyxbr4/

[HDTV1080P]

Sony BRAVIA KDL-52XBR4 May 2008 Home Theater review

Here is another review on the Sony KDL-52XBR4 for those that are interested in this display. This display is already on the list.

Quote
“If you turn the Motion Enhancer off, each source frame is simply repeated as many times as needed to get to 120 Hz, with no interpolation.”

http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/608sonykdl52/

[HDTV1080P]

Panasonic PT-AE2000U LCD Front Projector (June 2008 review link)

Here is another review on the Panasonic PT-AE2000U that came out in June 2008 at the UltimateAVmag.com website. This projector has been on the list for a while since it has a 96HZ refresh rate for 1080P/24 source material.

Quote
“One feature common to both models is how they display 1080p/24 material. When the projector receives such a signal, it repeats each frame four times, resulting in a refresh rate of 96Hz. This is fairly rare and welcome news for Blu-ray movie buffs, because it results in smoother motion than 1080p/24 displayed at 60Hz, which is a much more common scenario.”
http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/508panapro/

[HDTV1080P]

The Planar PD8150 DLP Front Projector has been added to the list.

Positives (projector offers true 48HZ refresh rate for 1080P 24fps material)
Quote
“With the DLP Frame Rate control set to Auto, a 60fps source was displayed at 60Hz, while a 24fps source was reproduced at 48Hz.”
“As a single-chip DLP projector, the Planar uses a 6x color wheel. The wheel rotates at 6x the frame rate—360Hz for a 60fps source and 288Hz for a 24fps source that has been upconverted by the projector to display at 48Hz.”


Negatives of single chip DLP projectors

Quote
“All single-chip DLP projectors are subject to the so-called "rainbow effect"—flashes of color caused by the rotating color wheel and the characteristics of the eye. And the brighter the projector, the more obvious this effect can be. Some people are totally immune to seeing this effect, while others are not. I'm in the latter group. I did occasionally spot rainbows on the Planar, but they were infrequent and merely a minor distraction.”

Quote
“Highs
Excellent black level and brightness—an uncommon combination
Extremely accurate color
First-rate video processing for both HD and SD
Exceptional adjustability
Lows
Will not reproduce above-white or below-black
Occasional color-wheel rainbows might bother some viewers
Less-flexible gamma controls than I'd like”

Quotes taken from the following review
http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/608plan/index2.html

[HDTV1080P]

The Panasonic Plasma flat panel 800U and 850U series have been moved from list 3 to list number 1 (Warning major flicker issue with 800U)

In keeping with the tradition of adding any brand and model of display that refreshes 1080P/24 at correct refresh rates and avoids the 3:2 pull down process I have added the following displays to the current in production and coming soon list (list number 1).

Panasonic TH-50PZ800U (48HZ)

Panasonic TH-46PZ800U (48HZ)

Panasonic TH-42PZ800U (48HZ)

Panasonic TH-65PZ850U (48HZ) (Fall 2008)

Panasonic TH-58PZ850U (48HZ) (Fall 2008)

Panasonic TH-50PZ850U (48HZ) (Fall 2008)

Panasonic TH-46PZ850U (48HZ) (Fall 2008)

Warning about the 800U series (unwatchable flicker)

Even though the Panasonic 800U has 48HZ refresh rates for 1080P/24 it should be noted that according to the CNET review the Panasonic 800U series is unwatchable with an ignoring flicker when a 1080P/24 signal is applied. Maybe Panasonic might fix this issue with a firmware update.

Quote
“We tested the Panasonic's "24p direct in" mode by setting it to 48Hz and switching our PS3 to 1080p/24 mode. After doing so, the first thing we noticed was significant flicker, which was most obvious in brighter areas of the picture, such as the overcast sky or sun-scorched desert hardpan, but was present throughout. The flicker made the image basically unwatchable, and we much preferred the look of standard 60Hz mode. If it weren't for the flicker, however, the 24p mode would be great, because it did make movement appear more natural, removing the hitching in motion associated with 60Hz's necessary 2:3 pull-down process. We feel most viewers will notice and object to the flicker enough to abandon the 48Hz setting, however. “
Quote
“It failed to properly deinterlace film-based 1080i material, according to our HQV test, although as usual that failure was difficult to spot in program material.”

All quotes taken from the following review
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-viera-th-50pz800u/4505-6482_7-32886472.html?tag=nl.e722

[HDTV1080P]

Mitsubishi HC6000 LCD front projector (June 2008 Sound and Vision review)

Here is another review on the Mitsubishi HC6000 LCD front projector that correctly handles 1080P/24 and refreshes the image a 48HZ similar to a movie projector.

Quote
The HC6000 will also accept a 24p input from a Blu-ray Disc player, automatically frame-doubling the signal to a 48p display.
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/tests/2844/mitsubishi-hc6000-lcd-front-projector.html

[HDTV1080P]

Toshiba LCD Flat Panel 52XF550U Sound and Vision July/August 2008 review information

The Toshiba XF550U series offer true 5:5 pulldown according to the following new Sound and Vision review. Perhaps one day Toshiba might release a BLU-RAY player to take full advantage of these new Toshiba displays. On the new Toshiba XV540U and XF550U series of displays when the Film Stabilization option is set to standard mode the Toshiba’s will perform true 5:5 pulldown.

Quote
"Notably, the set supports 1080p/24 input signals from Blu-ray Disc players, with a "5:5 pulldown" option that preserves the original film-frame sequence."

Quote
"The ClearFrame 120-Hz feature can be switched on in the menu. Motion Vector Frame Interpolation processing is used to derive additional frames from the incoming video signal; with a standard 60-Hz source, this effectively doubles the number of video frames being displayed per second. A Film Stabilization option also provides Standard and Smooth modes for handling film-based programs. When sending a 1080p/24 signal to the TV from a Blu-ray player, the Standard mode engages 5:5 pulldown (each original film frame that's been encoded to video is displayed five times to hit the TV's 120-Hz refresh rate). The Smooth mode, meanwhile, adds processing to eliminate the motion-judder artifacts that are part and parcel of the film-watching experience.”

Clear frame appears to be artifact free when smoothing 60HZ video sources at 120HZ refresh rate.

Quote
"As a movie fan, I proceed cautiously with motion-interpolation modes on 120-Hz LCDs, some of which can impart an unnatural "sped-up" look. But Toshiba's ClearFrame feature proved effective and artifact-free at all settings, including the judder-fighting Smooth mode. As my Blu-ray player supplied a 1080p/24 signal with ClearFrame and Standard Film Stabilization enabled, pictures looked razor-sharp even in complex tracking shots along fences or across signs."

Sound and Vision review where quotes where taken from:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hdt...-lcd-hdtv.html

[crazzeto]

God that regza is one sexy display!! Honestly I have to say that I'm really impressed with toshiba's displays. It'll be a while before I update mine, but I can assure that toshi will be at the top of my list of TVs including panny and pioneer plasmas (one can dream right?) sony and sammy lcd's as well.

[HDTV1080P]

Planar PD8150 DLP Front Projector with true 1080P/24
(July 2008 Home theater review)

For those that are interested in single chip DLP Front Projectors, here is a second review on the Planar PD8150 projector that also mentions the true 1080P/24 feature. This review can be found on pages 62-65 of the July 2008 Home Theater magazine. The list price on this projector is $7,999.

1080P/24 BLU-RAY input highlights

Quote

“Most projectors have a typical refresh rate of 60HZ, but we are seeing more and more add 48-Hz support for 1080P/24 sources.” The PD8150 allows for Auto, which selects the refresh rate based on the incoming video signal, 48-Hz, 50-Hz, and 60-Hz.”

Reverse 3:2 pulldown for watching standard 480I DVD’s and 1080I HD film based programming

For those interested in upconverting 480I or 1080I film based material to 1080P/24 very few displays offer reverse 3:2 pulldown feature. Many of the displays on the list lack 3:2 pulldown detection with 1080P/24 upconvert. The Planar will perform a reverse 3:2 pulldown and display the image at 1080P with a 48HZ refresh rate. Of course native 1080P/24 source material from BLU-RAY will always look better compared to upconverted 480I 60HZ material. Also native 24fps is always better since errors can occur in either the 3:2 pulldown encoding or decoding process. When every possible avoiding 3:2 pulldown is the best solution for film based material.

Quote

“For example, with film-based DVD’s encoded with 3:2 pulldown at 60Hz, the user can choose 48-Hz conversion. The processing strips the signal back to its original 24 frames per second and plays it back at 48Hz, eliminating the judder inherent in the 3:2 sequence.”

Home Theater magazines quotes


“I was continually impressed by the razor-sharp image the PD8150 provided. I’d been living with the JVC DLA-RS2 for quite some time before I received this unit. While the PD8150 did not quite deliver the blacks, I was enamored of the color fielity."

Quote

“The PD8150 is one of the best front projectors I’ve had the chance to use in my theater. It has the best contrast of any DLP I’ve used to date and has image accuracy that you rarely see in the front-projector market. This is also one of the only DLP projectors that let you have both high light output and dark blacks for high contrast. This is a mix we rarely ever see from this segment of the market. Planar has done an amazing job with its first dip into the 1080p market, and once Planar resolves the clipping issue, this is a projector I would be happy to use as a reference display.”

http://hometheatermag.com/frontproje...ar/index1.html

[HDTV1080P]

All Westinghouse displays so far are 60HZ only displays and will not be added to the list.

Quote
“These days, many LCD TVs refresh the image at twice the normal rate—120Hz instead of 60Hz—in order to reduce motion blur. The Westinghouse uses a refresh rate of 60Hz, no doubt to keep the cost down. With 1920x1080 native resolution, it can accept all signals including 1080p/60 and 1080p/24, though it applies 3:2 pulldown to 1080p/24.”

Quote taken from review of the Westinghouse TX-52F480S
http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/608west/

[rex]

Does anyone know if the Samsung 7 series LED DLP RPTVs use 5:5 pulldown, or use 3:2 pulldown and then double to get the 120Hz?