Contrast Ratio? Is it the most important thing?

[vahdyx]

I'm looking to buy a DLP 50" TV to replace my WD-52525. I'm still unsure if contrast ratio is the most important thing to look for in a TV. I'm wanting a very pretty picture something to compare with my friends Flat Panel LCD which is a 4000:1 Contrast Ratio. The shocking thing to me is it's only a 720p TV, so there went my theory of 1080p.

I've noticed that a lot of DLP's have around the 2500:1 ratio mark and a lot of them don't even list the ratio.

I have yet to see a LCoS or a LCD RPTV list a contrast ratio on any of their products.

I don't know, my Mitsubishi only has 1500:1 and compared to my buddies LCD my TV looks SD or ED if you want.

[TheGreenDude]

Contrast ratio is important to a degree, yes. But my counterargument to those who think it's the most important aspect of a display is that a SD 480i CRT has an "infinite contrast ratio" (in CRT's you can have full-off pixels) and looks like crap next to even a decent LCD or DLP (contrast ratios 1000:1 or higher).

I would still say to go look around and see what you like. The one that looks the best to me is the Samsung HL-T5087S (~ $1500 on Amazon I think) which gives you a 10000:1 ratio.

[mrkiller]

well they are important but not the most important.

[Arkadin]

I think the extra pixels in 1920x1080 is more important. I just can't see myself getting another 720p set. I want the extra resolution of 1080p. 1080i on 1080p sets is definitely superior to 1080i on the 720p sets.
Don't cheat yourself of those extra pixels.

[AV_Integrated]

Contrast ratio, color accuracy, and then resolution are considered the top three (in order) important characteristics of a display.

Most people (STILL!) don't get that the resolution of your display matters less and less as you step away from it. A 27" 480i display can look 100% as sharp as a 50" 1080p display from (about) 13 feet or so with a quality feed, such as a good DVD.

Contrast ratio is incredibly important, but must be combined with accurate colors.

One of the biggest advantages to digital displays is that they have a lot of inherent benefits which really do make them automatically have great perks over CRT displays. While CRT wins with contrast, the crispness of image inherent to digital is huge. But, CRT tends not to have false contouring issues like digital does. Likewise, digital requires almost zero maintenance to retain a near perfect image, while CRT often deteriorates over time.

Digital is typically much brighter as well!

Brighter, in the daytime, can create an effect of higher contrast even when it isn't actually higher. This gives more punch to the digital displays and may make colors appear more bold and accurate... more lifelike! These all contribute to making digital better overall...

So all you are really left with?

Resolution.

Except, of course, not all digital displays deliver the same ANSI (not full on/off) contrast nor do they have the same color accuracies.

Walk BB/CC and really be critical of all the displays you are looking at, then decide between a few, and play with them for a good bit to see what YOU like.

[Aurora]

1080i on 1080p sets is definitely superior to 1080i on the 720p sets.

Non-CRT "720p/1080i" sets are actually all 720p and will convert any 1080i signal to 720p for displaying. Similarly, a 1080p TV will convert a 1080i signal to 1080p by deinterlacing. Fixed pixel displays (Plasma, LCD, DLP--anything that's not a CRT) can only display one resolution, but they accept others.

So the reason 1080i looks better on 1080p sets is that the 1080p set is actually displaying 1920x1080 pixels, and the 720p is displaying less.

[brandoshido]

contrast ratio is a factor when you watch dark films, games and such. i would say the most important factor is........the deal youget for your tv.

[glocks out]

Contrast ratio is important, but you would be hard pressed to determine what the ratio is apart from measuring it yourself. The scores on the box and shelf tag are lies.

The most important aspect of a picture is the color accuracy. The second is almost as important because it affects the first, and that's black levels (sometimes called grey-scale). The third is white levels (sometimes called contrast).

I'm not talking about resolution here because HD sets will look good regardless of 720p or 1080p when at the proper viewing distance for that particular screen size. In fact, Runco had a 570p projector that looked better than a lot of 1080p sets!

If you have un-natural colors, the image is bad to begin with.

Black levels are important because this affects greatly the naturalness of colors. If you have grey blacks, the color is off. You also need the detail between black, darker than black, and just lighter than black, otherwise this all is one solid block of color, and that blows. With true blacks, the colors will pop-up (something like contrast). Basically, if you have true blacks and natural colors, it doesn't matter if you have 20,000:1 contrast or 200:1 because your image will pop and be real.

Contrast, or white level, deals with the upper end. If you don't have good white levels you will have "white crush" which makes close-to-white into white, and you end up with a lot of white. I sometimes watch the CBS show Shark, and they pump up their contrast so the bright spots on faces sometimes are too bright and it doesn't look natural (I adjust my TV down to compensate).

[Arkadin]

[QUOTE]

Non-CRT "720p/1080i" sets are actually all 720p and will convert any 1080i signal to 720p for displaying. Similarly, a 1080p TV will convert a 1080i signal to 1080p by deinterlacing. Fixed pixel displays (Plasma, LCD, DLP--anything that's not a CRT) can only display one resolution, but they accept others.

So the reason 1080i looks better on 1080p sets is that the 1080p set is actually displaying 1920x1080 pixels, and the 720p is displaying less.

I watch my hd on a crt so I guess I think about this more

Also, have no idea why HD-DED would say to try to determine ANYTHING regarding pq for walking the aisles of BB and CC looking at displays.
That's probably the absolute LAST thing you should do to figure out which displays are better IMO
There is ABSOLUTELY no way to know what settings are being used on those in store displays at places like these stores. I'm not saying don't buy at these stores, but don't base your purchase on what you see unless somehow you can sit there and tweak all the settings of each individual set.

[Godstar]

Contrast ratio is important, but you would be hard pressed to determine what the ratio is apart from measuring it yourself. The scores on the box and shelf tag are lies.

The most important aspect of a picture is the color accuracy. The second is almost as important because it affects the first, and that's black levels (sometimes called grey-scale). The third is white levels (sometimes called contrast).

I'm not talking about resolution here because HD sets will look good regardless of 720p or 1080p when at the proper viewing distance for that particular screen size. In fact, Runco had a 570p projector that looked better than a lot of 1080p sets!

If you have un-natural colors, the image is bad to begin with.

Black levels are important because this affects greatly the naturalness of colors. If you have grey blacks, the color is off. You also need the detail between black, darker than black, and just lighter than black, otherwise this all is one solid block of color, and that blows. With true blacks, the colors will pop-up (something like contrast). Basically, if you have true blacks and natural colors, it doesn't matter if you have 20,000:1 contrast or 200:1 because your image will pop and be real.

Contrast, or white level, deals with the upper end. If you don't have good white levels you will have "white crush" which makes close-to-white into white, and you end up with a lot of white. I sometimes watch the CBS show Shark, and they pump up their contrast so the bright spots on faces sometimes are too bright and it doesn't look natural (I adjust my TV down to compensate).

Glocks, just curious, but is color accuracy ever given in the specs of many TVS/Projectors? I've never seen it listed (even as gray scale), so just curious where you would find it other than going to a specialty review magazine. Also, why do companies lie about the contrast ratio, for instance the new Sony Black Pearl VPL-VW60 projector was listed at 35000:1 CTR, yet really was only at around ~3600:1. Brightness (lumens) is reportedly important for projectors, I'm not sure what the corresponding attribute is on televisions.

What's a good range for the following?

1.) Contrast Ratio (Higher the upper bound the better).
2.) Color Accuracy (Gray Scale, not sure how it's rated).
3.) Brightness (Higher the better).

[glocks out]

Glocks, just curious, but is color accuracy ever given in the specs of many TVS/Projectors? I've never seen it listed (even as gray scale), so just curious where you would find it other than going to a specialty review magazine.

Color accuracy isn't a specification you can give someone. All TVs are supposed to meet a certain requirement (SMPTE, I believe) yet many manufacturers move certain color frequencies to make up for weaknesses in their panel or just to make it look different and perhaps more appealing than a competitor's product. These temperatures aren't listed in a spec by most manufacturers. You should read reviews from magazines like The Perfect Vision and Sound and Vision who do tests on sets to account for color accuracy.

Also, why do companies lie about the contrast ratio, for instance the new Sony Black Pearl VPL-VW60 projector was listed at 35000:1 CTR, yet really was only at around ~3600:1.

They don't technically lie, they're just testing their equipment under conditions you won't find in real life. They'll pump up the brightness of their sets to test the white scale and then drop the brightness all the way in a perfectly dark room and test the black scale and then give you the contrast between the two.

The reason they do this is because in the late '90s there was a time when computer monitors were competing with each other on "contrast" ability. It became a buzzword, and people inflated their numbers to make them look better on the side of the box than their competitor.

What's a good range for the following?

1.) Contrast Ratio (Higher the upper bound the better).

Higher is always better, but you can't trust what a company claims so it's pointless to look at this as a judgment on the quality of the display. Sony is claiming their OLED displays have 1,000,000:1 ratio. How do you quantify this? Does it really matter? Is the picture going to be that much different? Certainly the OLED sets look impressive, but does it look 100x more impressive than a 10,000:1 set?

2.) Color Accuracy (Gray Scale, not sure how it's rated).

This is a pass/fail category. The set matches or it doesn't. Most sets don't match, but some are closer than others. Some sets are more blue and some are more red, so you'll have to call which bias you prefer unless you want to get your set ISF calibrated to match as close as possible to accurate color reproduction.

3.) Brightness (Higher the better).

Brightness isn't always better. Sam Runco has incredible bright lamps in his projectors but he recommends running them at half brightness or less. You get longer run time, and you get darker blacks. Of course this is all adjusted depending on screen type, size, throw distance, room brightness, etc.

The end result is a TV that's properly calibrated will look better than another TV that might have better specs but is using standard settings. This is why TV reviews are important, because they can tell you if the TV has processing problems, color problems, etc.

[Aurora]

There is ABSOLUTELY no way to know what settings are being used on those in store displays at places like these stores. I'm not saying don't buy at these stores, but don't base your purchase on what you see unless somehow you can sit there and tweak all the settings of each individual set.

I have heard that the display TVs are often set to be brighter than is appropriate because the brightness is more eye-catching and looks better at first glance. I'm sure the demo material they're using has been carefully selected to take advantage of the settings too.

It's kinda like how they probably find a great-looking BD/HD disc that has just an average or mediocre DVD release (and use a low-cost DVD player too) for those comparison displays.

[AV_Integrated]

...have no idea why HD-DED would say to try to determine ANYTHING regarding pq for walking the aisles of BB and CC looking at displays.
That's probably the absolute LAST thing you should do to figure out which displays are better IMO

Let me explain: The choice is to NOT go into stores and actually see the display, but to buy a display blind - without ever seeing it. If someone is dropping $2K or so on a display, then they owe it to themselves to go into a store (any store) and actually play with it. Bring a DVD or two, and tweak settings. See what you like and what you don't like.

Don't just go "Oh, that one looks good" and buy it.

Do your homework, read reviews, then if you have that Panasonic vs. Pioneer question (several $$$$ difference in price!) then someone may go into a store, see the Pioneer and decide that it is worth the extra cash after tweaking both sets for a bit.

Or better yet, they will avoid the Vizio LCDs because they try them out and see just how lousy they actually are compared to much of the competition.

One of the most popular displays - Westinghouse LCDs... I have never seen one in-store or at a home that has looked good.

So, while the stores may be 'tweaked' for in-store performance, it is fairly easy to see which ones really are lousy and not worth wasting money on.

[glocks out]

The average human eye can only distinguish about 500 shades of gray with perfect lighting conditions. What this basically means is a 500:1 ratio is about the best we can perceive.