RED Reveals Info on a 4K Laser Projector and REDRay Player

[TheDickWard]

RED says that you'll be able to pick up the projector for under $10,000

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/16/r...and-projector/

[BreakAtmo]

Will the fact that it's a 4K projector mean that when you play a Blu-ray with passive 3D, you'll be able to play it at actual 1080p rather than the 1920x540p that 1080p passive displays force? I'm not sure if passive 3D's vertical resolution slash is on the resolution of the display or the content. It would be awesome if it's the latter - you could put in a 3D Blu-ray and, with cheap glasses, play it in 3D upscaled to 3840x1080p.

[HDTV1080P]

REDRAY 4K PROJECTOR for under $10,000 might be released in 2012

It would be excellent if this 4K REDRAY projector were released this year. It would be $15,000 cheaper compared to the $25,000 Sony VPL-VW1000ES 4K consumer projector. Also consumer 3-D 1080P projectors that use passive glasses technology currently cost $50,000-$200,000+. At $10,000 the 4K REDRAY projector would be a bargain by offering true 1080P (or 2K) quality 3-D with passive glasses (2-D material is displayed at 4K quality).

The only negative with the REDRAY projector is that it would add 3:2 pulldown judder for both eyes when 3-D is shown at 120fps. All single light source projectors in the movie theater use 144fps in order to offer a flicker free presentation without 3:2 pulldown judder issues during camera pans.


Click the following link for a diagram on how the ideal consumer 3-D Front Projector or 3-D display should work when unpacking the frame packed 1920 X 2205 Blu-ray image.

http://cepro.com/images/uploads/frame_packed_3d_large.jpg

[Geomancer21]

so, the question is, where do you get 4k content?

[TheDickWard]

Record it with your RED camera of course

[BreakAtmo]

I know there's also a small amount of 4K content on the web, not to mention the ability of PCs to render games at resolutions above 1080p. And, of course, there's upscaling.

[Josh Z]

Will the fact that it's a 4K projector mean that when you play a Blu-ray with passive 3D, you'll be able to play it at actual 1080p rather than the 1920x540p that 1080p passive displays force? I'm not sure if passive 3D's vertical resolution slash is on the resolution of the display or the content. It would be awesome if it's the latter - you could put in a 3D Blu-ray and, with cheap glasses, play it in 3D upscaled to 3840x1080p.

Blu-ray 3D discs are encoded in frame-packed format, with two 1080p images stacked on top of each other. When played back on a passive 3D display, the display itself downconverts each image to 1920x540. The full 1080p resolution for each eye is available in the content.

So, yes, a 4k passive 3D display should be able to display both full 1080p images simultaneously.

That said, passive 3D with a projector requires a silver screen that wrecks 2D imagery. So you'd need two separate screens, one for 2D and one for 3D.

[Josh Z]

The only negative with the REDRAY projector is that it would add 3:2 pulldown judder for both eyes when 3-D is shown at 120fps.

No, it wouldn't. Blu-ray 3D discs are encoded at 24 fps, the same as any other Blu-ray disc. 120 Hz is an even multiple of that. Frame rate conversion to that can be done with 5:5 Pulldown, which does not introduce judder.

You'd only seen judder if you turned on some motion-interpolation mode, assuming this projector even offers that.

[Josh Z]

Another thing to note is that RED is pretty terrible about meeting its own release timetables. Although the press announcement says that this will be available in 2012, I'd expect that it's more realistic to expect it in 2013, juding by the company's previous product launches.

[hatih]

Seems like it's worth waiting for. And consumer version puts pressure to JVC, Sony and other LCoS makers. (Not to mention Runco, Sim2 and the likes.)
http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/16/r...aser-hands-on/

That said, passive 3D with a projector requires a silver screen that wrecks 2D imagery. So you'd need two separate screens, one for 2D and one for 3D.

I wonder how easy it's to change the focus with this thing, it propably is as easy as with an lcd-projector so you can put a good screen on the wall for 2D and pull down the silver screen in front of it if you want to watch 3D content.

[HDTV1080P]

No, it wouldn't. Blu-ray 3D discs are encoded at 24 fps, the same as any other Blu-ray disc. 120 Hz is an even multiple of that. Frame rate conversion to that can be done with 5:5 Pulldown, which does not introduce judder.

You'd only seen judder if you turned on some motion-interpolation mode, assuming this projector even offers that.

This 3-D issue has been well documented since 2010. All 120Hz displays add 3:2 pulldown for each eye in 3-D mode. The following is a quote from a Home Theater magazine review on a Sharp XV-Z17000 3D DLP Projector that uses 120Hz refresh rate. Once the display unpacks the frame packed 2205 Blu-ray image the source material for 3-D becomes 48Hz.

“The projector refreshes 2D images at a rate of 60 hertz and 3D images at 120 Hz (60 Hz for each eye in 3D). The Sharp first converts 24-fps 2D sources to 60 Hz, and 24-fps 3D sources to 120 Hz, by adding 3:2 pulldown. This isn’t the best approach, but since the Sharp lacks a refresh rate that’s even multiple of 24 Hz, it’s the only workable alternative.”

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/home-theater-gear/25688-displays-support-1080p-24-signal-multiplies-original-frame-rate-38.html#post2238743

[HDTV1080P]

Click the following link for a diagram on how the ideal consumer 3-D Front Projector or 3-D display should work when unpacking the frame packed 1920 X 2205 Blu-ray image.

http://cepro.com/images/uploads/fram...d_3d_large.jpg

[HDTV1080P]

We well know more when and if the product is released. My understanding from the specs is it will show 3-D at 120fps instead of 144fps which would mean 3:2 pulldown issues for each eye (120fps and higher normally is flicker free). It was designed for the REDRAY 4K AES encrypted movie player for movie developers but in theory it should work for frame packed Blu-ray discs too. Well have to wait for more details to be released. Maybe they will surprise us and offer a 144fps triple flash mode.

[unfiltered]

It should be noted that the REDRay player, while being sold separately in both a professional and consumer models, does in fact come built-in to the projector unit for the $10k.

Yes, RED has had issues in the past with meeting deadlines. But this time last year at NAB, Jim stated they wold no longer give estimated release dates if it weren't possible. So, I'm going to go with that. Honestly, considering how much the tech world was effected by Mother Nature, I was thinking the projectors and REDRay player would already be available. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Peter Jackson hasn't been using a beta version on The Hobbit.

On the content front, the REDRay format comes in at around 15-20/mbps for 4K material. At that rate, online delivery is totally doable, which is their intent, as is standard DCP server connection.

[Josh Z]

This 3-D issue has been well documented since 2010. All 120Hz displays add 3:2 pulldown for each eye in 3-D mode. The following is a quote from a Home Theater magazine review on a Sharp XV-Z17000 3D DLP Projector that uses 120Hz refresh rate. [B]Once the display unpacks the frame packed 2205 Blu-ray image the source material for 3-D becomes 48Hz.

“The projector refreshes 2D images at a rate of 60 hertz and 3D images at 120 Hz (60 Hz for each eye in 3D). The Sharp first converts 24-fps 2D sources to 60 Hz, and 24-fps 3D sources to 120 Hz, by adding 3:2 pulldown. This isn’t the best approach, but since the Sharp lacks a refresh rate that’s even multiple of 24 Hz, it’s the only workable alternative.”

Displays that support 1080p/24 signal at multiplies of the original frame rate

Fair enough. I was forgetting that it needs to be an even multiple of 48 for 3D.

However, I think it very likely that the press release and the Engadget article may just be misleadingly worded. They say "3D up to 120 fps." They don't say 3D only at 120 fps. It's possible that the projector could be used much like JVC projectors, which display 2D at 120 Hz and 3D at 96 Hz, with no 3:2 Pulldown. With luck, displaying 3D at 120 Hz is an optional mode, not mandatory.

I really wish you'd stop using crazy fonts. They're hard to read. Everyone hates them. Just stop. It's obnoxious.