players not yet ready to offer backups for Blu-ray discs

[DaveS1138]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

I honestly wonder how many people will really care. I mean, you own a copy already on a disc that has a scratch-proof coating. I have yet to own a single Blu-Ray movie that will not play on my BD players because it was damaged. This seems like another case of making a mountain out of a molehill for doom and gloomers like Mike. We heard the exact same rumblings about lack of 2.0 players and movies released with BD Live. And, IMHO, that was definitely much ado about nothing.

And I would be shocked if the PS3 does not support managed copy at some point in time if consumers demand it.

Oh man.....those were funny days
Remember how some people were suggesting that hordes of angry customers would be marching back into Best Buy demanding to know why their profile 1 players wouldn't play profile 2 discs and how it was going to be the downfall of Blu-ray.

[h0mi]

I fail to understand how a current profile 2.0 player can't possibly support managed copy. Why couldn't this be done via a bd-live app that sends authentication to the studio's server and sends a copy of the disc accordingly? Why the need for special blu-ray hardware to essentially trigger to the studio a desire for a backup copy of a blu-ray disc? It sounds so incredibly worthless to me of a process especially if it just means I get an exact replica of the disc I already have instead of something like "the movie in a format for my zune, iphone, xbox, etc."

[mikemorel]

Originally Posted by Kosty

I'm guessing that his point is that existing players are substandard and obsolete because they do not have this feature and that existing software is also obsolete as they do not have this feature.

The latter (mostly). Now it looks like discs will be slipstreamed to market, so no one will have any idea if their disc has Managed Copy until they try it out next year. Sounds to me like they need to move a LOT of obsolete disc inventory. And they don't want to destroy them. So they will sell them to you. And to people just getting into blu-ray.

Which kinda ignores the fact that when implemented it will be a free value added feature of the Blu-ray format

This should have been implemented in discs back in 2005, when the BDA announced that they would support Managed Copy. Of course, they did not. I'lll leave you to draw your own conclusions why it took the BDA 3.5 years to do something they said they would do from day one.

that no other method of home viewing has

Really? I noticed something is on the back of the latest Roku box, just introduced a couple of weeks ago.



Looks like a USB port. Wait, it IS a USB port! Strange that they won't tell us what it's for. It's "disabled".

And I guess we now know what the USB ports were for on HD DVD players.

and that new hardware and software that implements this free or low cost feature is fully compatible with existing movies and hardware. Kinda like how Blu-ray 3D will be implemented.

Yep. But all the discs you bought won't work. And it sure does look like the discs you are GOING to buy may, or may not work. That kind of sucks, no?

Just seems like another pure FUD post to spread doubt on current Blu-ray offerings.

Well, it's a fact that current discs on sale today cannot be copied to HDD. If you think that spreads fear, uncertainty and doubt, then that fear, uncertainty and doubt is on your end. Video Business wrote it. I'm just reporting it.

I can understand that you would want to keep this quiet though. It might freeze sales. No need to worry. No one comes to smackdown looking to buy blu-ray. It will take a year before 99% of the population finds out. Sokeep it quiet. OK?

But the consumer that buys a player and discs today based on your recommendations is going to be really PO'd that they did so next year.

Originally Posted by bluskiessmingatme

Why do you care? This affects your collection of how many Blu-ray discs?

I care because this impacts far more than just discs. This impacts SD cards, hard disc drives and downloads. You see, it doesn't matter how the movie GETS to the hard drive, just that it gets there. This means that studios will finally release HD content via download as well.

Originally Posted by h0mi

I fail to understand how a current profile 2.0 player can't possibly support managed copy. Why couldn't this be done via a bd-live app that sends authentication to the studio's server and sends a copy of the disc accordingly?

Sends it where? Current BD players have no storage. If you mean over your LAN, I'm not sure that would be a very secure thing to allow. I also don't think existing players have the horsepower to do much other than play a disc.

Originally Posted by JAC35

I dont even remember what the point of this was anymore lol...

I agree that the optical disc part of this makes less sense than it did back in 2005, when MC was conceived. Back in 2005 net connections were slower, so copying a disc made much more sense than it does today. And SD cards and thumb drives didn't have the capacity and speed back in 2005.

But for those with slow internet connections, it still makes sense today. For a few years, anyway.

I don't like the fact that they are going to charge you for this!!

Well, if they charge, few will buy into it. Studios need to sell movies. Now, more than ever. If they make it free, then people will buy more discs.

An added value approach would be to offer life time replacement discs. If a disc ever becomes unplayable on two different players send it in and get a free new replacement disc.

Well, then this is not for you. You seem to prefer optical discs. This is about streaming movies over the home network. And watching on portable media players with SD card slots. Bringing media on a trip. Etc. Etc.

I do like the idea if it was able to be copied off the disc on to a Windows Media Center video library, that is interesting....

I was extremenly surprised and pleased to read this.

However, backers say they expect some devices in the next year, with PC drives likely to be the first products to support managed copy.

[Kosty]

Originally Posted by mikemorel

This should have been implemented in discs back in 2005, when the BDA announced that they would support Managed Copy. Of course, they did not. I'lll leave you to draw your own conclusions why it took the BDA 3.5 years to do something they said they would do from day one.

I agree with you here. It would have been better if this was implemented years ago.

Yep. But all the discs you bought won't work. And it sure does look like the discs you are GOING to buy may, or may not work. That kind of sucks, no?

They still work perfectly fine in old current and future players as Blu-ray Discs fro playing all the content and extras in the best quality available to consumers.

Its just that as of the moment we are assuming all current and past releases won't have the managed copy enabled although I'm told now that future firmware updates to 2009 era players and the PS3 could actually enable some or most older discs to retroactively have this feature enabled depending how the AACS encryption was handled. Its a better bet that BD-Live enabled titles could be enabled to do this feature.

But a good assumption at the moment would still be that only future releases would support this feature.

[bfellow]

I've already dealt with scratched/damaged discs. I wouldn't mind seeing managed copy. Otherwise, time to do backups myself. Oh yeah no one has 100" screens on their laptops either. I don't mind 720p versions.

[tonyb2]

Originally Posted by mikemorel

Well, I care.

No you don't

[mikemorel]

Originally Posted by Elee s

As many as there are who want managed copy on DVD.

Why people are excited at the thought of studios taking more and more of your disc owning rights away is beyond me.

Speaking of red laser AACS...

These were posted a few weeks ago on the AACS LA site (dated October 16th).

AACS Red Laser Recording

[mikemorel]

Originally Posted by Kosty

Its just that as of the moment we are assuming all current and past releases won't have the managed copy enabled although I'm told now that future firmware updates to 2009 era players and the PS3 could actually enable some or most older discs to retroactively have this feature enabled depending how the AACS encryption was handled. Its a better bet that BD-Live enabled titles could be enabled to do this feature.

But a good assumption at the moment would still be that only future releases would support this feature.

That is the part I don't understand. Blu-ray copy protection is broken. Why not grandfather those 2000 titles in? Is it worth antagonizing early adopters (your best customers) and worse, the average consumer, by denying the copying discs they already own? The pirate is not going to go near Managed Copy players (like kryptonite).

[DaveS1138]

Originally Posted by mikemorel

That is the part I don't understand. Blu-ray copy protection is broken. Why not grandfather those 2000 titles in? Is it worth antagonizing early adopters (your best customers) and worse, the average consumer, by denying the copying discs they already own? The pirate is not going to go near Managed Copy players (like kryptonite).

???????

Again......Like all the profile 1.0 owners were going to be antagonized and bring down the format....

Dude........you seem to be one of the only people in the world that even cares.

[Sbert]

Originally Posted by DaveS1138

???????

Again......Like all the profile 1.0 owners were going to be antagonized and bring down the format....

Dude........you seem to be one of the only people in the world that even cares.

LOL, if anyone is going to take the shit, it will be the early adopter. Because most adopters knew what they were going into and the risk involved inherently with it. They tend to be more savvy about firmware and hardware as well. More smoke blowing by mike.

[Rob71]

Originally Posted by mikemorel

That is the part I don't understand. Blu-ray copy protection is broken. Why not grandfather those 2000 titles in? Is it worth antagonizing early adopters (your best customers) and worse, the average consumer, by denying the copying discs they already own? The pirate is not going to go near Managed Copy players (like kryptonite).

Most here are early adopters and it's not an issue for the vast majority. And as far as the average customer they'll just buy or rent disks like they always have. So again, no issue.

[h0mi]

Originally Posted by mikemorel

Sends it where? Current BD players have no storage. If you mean over your LAN, I'm not sure that would be a very secure thing to allow. I also don't think existing players have the horsepower to do much other than play a disc.

From your original post in June:

Managed copies are possible on to various media: burned to writeable BDs or DVDs, downloaded on a Windows Media DRM-compatible portable player, hard drive or memory card, or as a bound copy, such as a digital copy file on the disc. Surprisingly, the AACS-LA has not received a submission from Apple to make Blu-ray copies to Apple devices, and thus downloads to iPods, iPhones and other Apple devices are not approved at this time.

When managed copy is operational, the disc menu on the BD will include an option to make a managed copy, or the consumer will access copy through the player controls. Then, the player will connect online to an authorization center (run by a studio, supplier or the AACS-LA), which will give the go-ahead to make a copy. Discs are serialized, so that the authorization centers can tell whether a copy has already been made off a given disc.

I misunderstood what was to take place.

I think I prefer the current model where "digital copies" exist on a separate DVD disc. My preference is that copies should support multiple devices. I don't really see any benefit in having the blu-ray player itself do this authorization and dispensing of the digital copy; I think having it done via a computer makes a lot more sense and eliminates the need for new, "managed copy" compatible hardware that still looks like it won't fully function

[Malanthius]

This really isn't an issue for me. I have always taken care of my discs. DVD/HD-DVD and BR. I don't ever see myself having the need for this.

[mikemorel]

Originally Posted by tonyb2

No you don't [care]

I do, and have been posting positively about managed copy since 2005.

Originally Posted by ack_bak

Nope. Never felt the need to rip my Blu-Ray discs. Waste of hard drive space. I don't watch them on my iPod/iPhone/computer (been there, done that). Judging by the popularity of movie downloads via iTunes not many people are doing this either.

Originally Posted by DaveS1138

???????
Dude........you seem to be one of the only people in the world that even cares.

Originally Posted by Rob71

And as far as the average customer they'll just buy or rent disks like they always have. So again, no issue.

Well, judging by all of your responses, I see Managed Copy being a gargantaun flop.

So why would the BDA, in their infinite wisdom, spend the huge sums of money to develop a technology which can introduce such confusion in the marketplace, if no one wants to buy it? Certainly it appears existing blu-ray owners on this board don't want it.

Trouble is, if Managed Copy IS a flop, then that leaves the movie industry in the EXACT same boat as the record industry, except 5 years later.

[h0mi]

I see managed copy being a flop because they're not really offering consumers what they really want. Let me explain.

The ipod was successful because you could create a "managed copy" of your CD very easily... and for the most part even half a decade later, a lot of music on ipods are exactly this... "rips" from CDs. People wanted video support in their ipods and they got it, but you can't rip your DVD to your ipod. Methinks this is what consumers want and I think the "hub" of this needs to be a PC, not a blu-ray player. Doing this on a PC seems far more flexible than on a blu-ray player and for most of the uses of managed copy, that's where it'd have the most benefit.