Apple isn't kidding AppleTV really is a hobby

[ack_bak]

http://blogs.computerworld.com/15009...=rss_weintraub

Apple isn't kidding. AppleTV really is a hobby

Steve Jobs famously touts AppleTV as "just a hobby". This all started at the 2007 AllthingD conference where he said:

“We’re in two businesses today, we’ll very shortly be in three, and a hobby”, Apple’s CEO Steve Jobs told Walt Mossberg in an on-stage interview at yesterday’s D: conference. The first two are computers and digital music (iPod/iTunes), and the third will be the cell phone market which Apple will enter next month with the launch of the iPhone. And the hobby? The company’s recently released set-top-box, the AppleTV.
“The reason I call it a hobby is a lot of people have tried and failed to make it a business. It’s a business that’s hundreds of thousands of units per year but it hasn’t crested to be millions of units per year, but I think if we improve things we can crack that.”

In an October 2008 conference call he was questioned about the AppleTV as a hobby:

Bill Fearnley – FTN Midwest: [...] Steve, how are you thinking about Apple TV now? [...] If you look at the digital living room category and you look at the upcoming year of 2009, how do you look at the digital living room opportunity and how it relates to Apple TV?

Steven P. Jobs: Well again, I think the whole category is still a hobby right now. I don’t think anybody has succeeded at it and actually the experimentation has slowed down. A lot of the early companies that were trying things have faded away, so I’d have to say that given the economic conditions, given the venture capital outlooks and stuff, I continue to believe it will be a hobby in 2009.

Today Apple released the new version of the AppleTV OS version 3. The last major release was two years ago and 2.3, the latest point release, was released almost a year ago. Over the past year Apple has only added the following:

iTunes Extras, Genius Mixes and Internet radio. The interface is also improved.

I have a few hobbies. I like to go mountain biking. I do it on the weekends sometimes if the weather is OK. I also am a pilot and consider flying a hobby. But I haven't done it in over a year...maybe two.

Apple means it when they say AppleTV is a hobby. They've done about a week's work in the past year or two on the AppleTV. All of the improvements they did were just brought over from iTunes.

That is to say, AppleTV isn't actively being worked on. If some of their engineers have some extra/down time for a week or so then they get to do improvements?

My theory is that Apple has had all of their best talent in the past two years working round the clock on the Tablet - so the AppleTV gets neglected.

And that leaves AppleTV pretty anemic. It doesn't play content off of a share, it doesn't play Avi, MKV, etc. files, it doesn't do 1080P. And it certainly won't do Hulu or Netflix for fear of eating into theu iTunes revenues.

Some think it might be the industry that is holding Apple back, and it might be, but why have other competitors done so much better?

I'd rather have a Seagate FreeAgent theater at under $100 that plays all kinds of formats and plays videos off of a NAS at 1080P, something AppleTV can't. Other companies make siilar products.

Or even better yet, get a Mac Mini from a few years back and throw Plex on it. Plex is by far the best media center on the Mac and does a lot of the things AppleTV doesn't.

Although the interface isn't amazing, Boxee is another option for getting a quality media center on your Mac or AppleTV.

In any case, Apple's AppleTV hobby should be approcahed as one. One that may or may not have a future. For the same $229 price, you can get much more interesting alternatives that browse NAS shares, play all formats, and are starting to include services like Hulu and Netflix.

So odd to me that we see all these analyst and blog sites stating that optical media is on it's death bed and the move should be towards downloads and streaming, yet the company that should be most poised to benefit from this move, Apple with it's iTunes platform, doesn't seem to feel the same way. We read stories where Apple has neglected adding Blu-Ray to their lineup, yet they also seem to really be neglecting AppleTV. It certainly feels like an afterthought. I have played around with Boxee on my Mac Mini and it is okay, but I keep waiting for Apple to address some of the issues mentioned in this thread, and many more. I really think Apple could do something special if they would simply add Blu-Ray to their AppleTV, and also address the shortcomings that AppleTV has now. And do it for around $200-299.

[GizmoDVD]

I used a hacked ATV for the longest time to play my movie rips and then sold it for a Mac Mini. That to was sold when my LG BD390 did everything the Mini could do for half the price.

[mikemorel]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

http://blogs.computerworld.com/15009...=rss_weintraub



So odd to me that we see all these analyst and blog sites stating that optical media is on it's death bed and the move should be towards downloads and streaming, yet the company that should be most poised to benefit from this move, Apple with it's iTunes platform, doesn't seem to feel the same way. We read stories where Apple has neglected adding Blu-Ray to their lineup, yet they also seem to really be neglecting AppleTV. It certainly feels like an afterthought. I have played around with Boxee on my Mac Mini and it is okay, but I keep waiting for Apple to address some of the issues mentioned in this thread, and many more. I really think Apple could do something special if they would simply add Blu-Ray to their AppleTV, and also address the shortcomings that AppleTV has now. And do it for around $200-299.

Did you see any Apple TV sales numbers? No? Why is Apple keeping so tight lipped?

Estimates for Apple TV sales in 2008 were at 2.1 million. In February Piper Jaffray said Apple might sell 6.6 million Apple TVs in 2009.

In other words, Apple TV console sales might very well equal or exceed all SAL blu-ray player sales COMBINED.

That would be some hobby.

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by mikemorel

Did you see any Apple TV sales numbers? No? Why is Apple keeping so tight lipped?

Estimates for Apple TV sales in 2008 were at 2.1 million. In February Piper Jaffray said Apple might sell 6.6 million Apple TVs in 2009.

In other words, Apple TV console sales might very well equal or exceed all blu-ray player sales COMBINED.

That would be some hobby.

Sorry, but in the current economy estimates don't mean anything.

The proof is in the pudding. The CEO of Apple calls AppleTV a "hobby" and then backs it up by not doing anything with the product.

I have been waiting for Apple to do something significant with AppleTV for 2 years now. Looks like I will keep waiting, and my next purchase from Apple will most likely be a tablet.

[h0mi]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

http://blogs.computerworld.com/15009...=rss_weintraub

So odd to me that we see all these analyst and blog sites stating that optical media is on it's death bed and the move should be towards downloads and streaming, yet the company that should be most poised to benefit from this move, Apple with it's iTunes platform, doesn't seem to feel the same way. We read stories where Apple has neglected adding Blu-Ray to their lineup, yet they also seem to really be neglecting AppleTV. It certainly feels like an afterthought. I have played around with Boxee on my Mac Mini and it is okay, but I keep waiting for Apple to address some of the issues mentioned in this thread, and many more. I really think Apple could do something special if they would simply add Blu-Ray to their AppleTV, and also address the shortcomings that AppleTV has now. And do it for around $200-299.

What's crazy is that MS could've blown them out of the water back in 2007/2008. If they'd incorporated the Zune with Xbox live video marketplace back then, everything that's been promised and is sort of there with Apple tv would be there now with the xbox and zune. The recent efforts by MS are a few years late and I'm not sure it's as robust as we're seeing with the itunes/ipod/apple tv.

I've had my eye on the apple tv and if they updated the hardware I'd probably buy one to hack. I want a mini but $600 is more than I'd pay for such a device (which is why I'm looking at an atom netbook that can deal with 1080p content instead).

The other thing is, I've never seen any data from Apple in terms of how many videos they're selling on itunes. Someone was complaining about Kosty's charts tracking only blu-ray/dvd sales and not all forms of HD... that's largely because the only numbers being offered are blu-ray sales and not HD ratings, HD subscribers, or HD buyers.

[mikemorel]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

Sorry, but in the current economy estimates don't mean anything.

The proof is in the pudding. The CEO of Apple calls AppleTV a "hobby" and then backs it up by not doing anything with the product.

I have been waiting for Apple to do something significant with AppleTV for 2 years now. Looks like I will keep waiting, and my next purchase from Apple will most likely be a tablet.

Blu-ray managed copy is not ready yet. So slapping a blu-ray drive in Apple TV for playback makes no sense - the hard drive is right there but you can't copy the movie.

And blu-ray 3D is not ready yet. So slapping a blu-ray drive in there for 2D only playback is a one way ticket to obsolescence.

Maybe next year. Or maybe not.

It is kind of humorous though, that Apple sits on the BDA board of directors.

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by mikemorel

Blu-ray managed copy is not ready yet. So slapping a blu-ray drive in Apple TV for playback makes no sense - the hard drive is right there but you can't copy the movie.

And blu-ray 3D is not ready yet. So slapping a blu-ray drive in there for 2D only playback is a one way ticket to obsolescence.

Maybe next year. Or maybe not.

It is kind of humorous though, that Apple sits on the BDA board of directors.

It might make sense for Apple to wait to support Blu-Ray or it could simply be Apple not wanting users to buy movies on optical discs (the fact that the AppleTV does not support Hulu, Netflix, Vudu, etc is very telling).

Regardless, if I was an AppleTV owner I would be pretty frustrated with the lack of updates and innovation. As Gizmo pointed out, he gets more bang for the buck from his LG390 which can play Blu-Ray, upscale DVD, stream Netflix, Vudu, etc and playback just about any file format.

And with the price cut and access to Netflix and PSN streaming, Blu-Ray playback, DVD upscaling, etc, the PS3 at $299 will give the AppleTV a run for it's money (and it plays games).

Even the $99 Insignia 2.0 Blu-Ray player at Best Buy right now will play BD's, upscale DVD, and stream Netflix.

[luclin999]

Apple is on the BDA board and Jobs is the majority shareholder of Disney giving him influence over two separate members of the BDA.

Jobs also knows that the infrastructure isn't ready (yet) to try to push digital HD streaming into the market as a replacement for current options to the majority of consumers.

[GizmoDVD]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

Even the $99 Insignia 2.0 Blu-Ray player at Best Buy right now will play BD's, upscale DVD, and stream Netflix.

...AND plays movie files via USB. Its a LG BD370 clone.

[mmmmDoNut]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

Regardless, if I was an AppleTV owner I would be pretty frustrated with the lack of updates and innovation.

As an atv owner for last two years, I've got no frustrations. But then again I planned ahead and standardized my entire library knowing what codecs and containers I wanted my files in and atv fit the bill perfectly.

[AV_Integrated]

I have a love/hate relationship with my ATV.

1. No direct connected playback means I run my other PC 24/7 with iTunes to get my movies.

2. Ripping 300+ movies is, quite literally, a year long task.

3. Movies ripped with surround sound for ATV won't play on my iPod, which means I need to rip it TWICE!

4. No automatic lookup of cover art or anything.

5. No support for any but a very few codecs.

What else supports the 100+ movies I have in MP4 format with surround sound? I'm ready to sell the ATV and move on to a PCH or WDTV2 if it will do more for me. Especially considering I have about 100 direct from DVD rips sitting on my PC.

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by AV_Integrated

I have a love/hate relationship with my ATV.

1. No direct connected playback means I run my other PC 24/7 with iTunes to get my movies.

2. Ripping 300+ movies is, quite literally, a year long task.

3. Movies ripped with surround sound for ATV won't play on my iPod, which means I need to rip it TWICE!

4. No automatic lookup of cover art or anything.

5. No support for any but a very few codecs.

What else supports the 100+ movies I have in MP4 format with surround sound? I'm ready to sell the ATV and move on to a PCH or WDTV2 if it will do more for me. Especially considering I have about 100 direct from DVD rips sitting on my PC.

My buddy swears by the PopcornHour box. I believe the newest model even lets you install a Blu-Ray drive as well (it has a blank drive bay slot).

[tonyb2]

Mines more of a love/love relationship

it has its faults but the pros far outweigh them

the thing that does worry me is having a person like morel on its (my) side

It complements my blu-ray player perfectly

[GizmoDVD]

Originally Posted by AV_Integrated

I have a love/hate relationship with my ATV.

1. No direct connected playback means I run my other PC 24/7 with iTunes to get my movies.

2. Ripping 300+ movies is, quite literally, a year long task.

3. Movies ripped with surround sound for ATV won't play on my iPod, which means I need to rip it TWICE!

4. No automatic lookup of cover art or anything.

5. No support for any but a very few codecs.

What else supports the 100+ movies I have in MP4 format with surround sound? I'm ready to sell the ATV and move on to a PCH or WDTV2 if it will do more for me. Especially considering I have about 100 direct from DVD rips sitting on my PC.

You do know the ATV can be 'hacked' to play just about any codec under the sun, right (among other things)?

[Elee s]

Yeah but the interface is slow and cluttered. I use Boxee.

"I wanna get _____ so I can hack it" aint the greatest reason to buy something either. Might aswell spend a bill or 2 more and get a superior Nettop PC.