HD DVR - An Indispensable Component for HD Movie Lovers

[SRW1000]

OK, since numerous threads have gone off topic discussing HD DVRs and their use to HD movie fans, I thought it might make an interesting thread of it's own.

The purpose of this thread is not directed to call out a single member, rather a discussion of that specific strategy, and similar alternatives. If you want to post to this thread, please stick to the concepts, and don't direct attacks at fellow members.

To start this out, I'd like to thank Taffy for posting about his collection. I too have recently acquired a Dish Network HD DVR and added a hard drive (1.5GB). In just a few months, I've managed to archive almost HD 100 films. These fall into roughly four categories: HD movies not available on Blu-ray, movies on BD, but not worth buying, movies on BD that were once in my Blockbuster queue buy I'd rather watch for free than rent, HD movies not on BD yet, but for comparison purposes only.

HD Movies not on BD yet: This category includes such movies as THX1138, American Graffiti, Ghost Story, Black Sabbath, most of the Universal monster movies, Rob Roy, They Live, and many others. Someday they're bound to hit BD, but they aren't there yet.

Movies on BD, but Not Worth Buying: This is a highly personal category. For me, it includes The Incredible Hulk, Kung Fu Panda (just for the bass!), The Dark Knight, The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, Jurassic Park, and a few others. If I see these for the right price on BD (less than $10), I may buy them. Until then, having them on an external hard drive is just fine.

Movies That Were In My BB Queue, but I'd Rather Watch for Free: This is a pretty big list. Right now, I've got over 75 discs in that queue, but more and more of them fall to the bottom to make way for new releases. Of those, some are showing up on the cable channels, so recording them from there let's me take them off the queue, and they're available for instant viewing. Samples include: Shoot 'Em Up, Death Race, Burn After Reading, Doomsday, Nim's Island, Changeling, Sunshine (someone ruined the ending for me last year), Speed Racer 10,000 B.C. Most of these titles had gotten mediocre reviews, so seeing them in BD glory wasn't an overriding concern. Would watching Babylon A.D. on BD have made it a better movie? I'm guessing not.

HD Movies Stored Only for Comparison: For me, this is a very short list. The only titles in this category so far are the Star Wars Trilogy. This would be a day one BD purchase for me, but that could be years away. Until then, if I want an idea of how good the movies will look, I can check out segments from the Spike TV airings. Sigh, they're not in OAR, they've got bugs, and are filled with commercials. All of which is too distracting to watch all the way through. But, if I want a quick taste, or want to rewatch a short segment, they're readily available for watching. I sure wish I would have had this set up back when Cinemax showed them all in OAR.

Is this a perfect solution? Not at all. But, as a viewing option, it's worth every penny. The satellite equipment was free, and I'd be subscribing anyway. The hard drive was about $120, and it cost about $40 to enable the feature on my DVR. The movies are part of my normal programming package, and Cinemax is only $.o1 for a year. Sadly, that program is ending, and I'll have to make a decision when it goes back to it's normal price.

Does it equal the quality of BD? No, since most movies average 4-6 GB, but most are pretty good. I just watched The Last Man on Earth this weekend. Of all the adaptations of Richard Matheson's I Am Legend, I liked this version the best. It's an old movie, but it was shown in it's original aspect ratio, and the MGM bug was in the lower black bar. It looked really, really good, with no evidence of macro-blocking, even on my projection screen. There was one commercial break, right in the middle of the movie, which was a minor distraction. We usually take a break in the middle of the movie to rid ourselves of our empty popcorn containers and refill on beverages, so it wasn't a big deal to us.

Other channels vary in quality. Most of Cinimax's movies are not in OAR, which is a minus, but occasionally some are correct. Action movies will occasionally suffer from macro-blocking and pixelation. It isn't hard to tell that these are not perfect, but in many cases, they're much better than the DVD. Given the recent arguments over BDs such as Gladiator, better than the DVD is a good enough benchmark for many BD enthusiasts. I'm not among them, but at a price that approaches free, I'm willing to settle.

Sound will also vary. For the older movies, it's not that much of an issue. On newer films, some may be able to hear a difference. I haven't updated my preamp processor to HDMI yet, so I'm not getting lossless from my PS3 yet anyway. Having heard Kung Fu Panda on both BD and Dish, I can't say there was any difference. The bass was amazing on both. On the other hand, The Dark Knight seemed to sound better on Blu.

One last bonus, HDNet is premiering movies before they even hit the theaters. While the titles may not be to everyone's taste, the quality is usually very good, and hey, it's premiering for free! This month it was Ong Bak 2, and The House of the Devil is being shown this Wednesday.

Sorry for the length of this thread, but there's a lot to discuss about this topic. As more catalog BDs are released, this may become less attractive, but for now, I consider this an invaluable option for movie viewing.

Scott

[Elee s]

HD Movies not on BD yet: Id rather just pop in the DVD. For example awhile ago when I wanted to watch Braveheart(before it came on blu ray) I just popped in the DVD. I wasnt thinking 'hey I wonder when Ill get the chance to record this from cable.'

Movies on BD, but Not Worth Buying: If its not worth buying its most likely a waste of harddrive space too.

Movies That Were In My BB Queue, but I'd Rather Watch for Free: This is the big one for me. It may be 3-6 months after the DVD release but theres some movies where I wouldnt bother even with a rental. And with movie channels you at least know that a new movie will eventually be on rather than being kept in the dark.
There are some movies I regretted not renting though since the content relied so heavily on sound and action scenes.

[SRW1000]

Originally Posted by Elee s

HD Movies not on BD yet: Id rather just pop in the DVD. For example awhile ago when I wanted to watch Braveheart(before it came on blu ray) I just popped in the DVD. I wasnt thinking 'hey I wonder when Ill get the chance to record this from cable.'

One doesn't preclude the other. Most of the movies in this category I already own on DVD. Given the choice between DVD and HD archive, I'll probably opt for the hard drive version. I haven't watched it all the way through yet, but THX 1138 looks fantastic, for example.

On the other hand, having the DVR option is kind of like reviewing the newly available movies from the online rental websites. Once a week I go through the movie channels (a custom one-page guide screen), and see what's coming up. Two clicks later, the movies in my recording list. as the built-in hard drive fills up, I transfer them to the external hard drive, usually over night. It's really easy to build a collection that way, and it's faster to go through a hard drive's contents than it is to find a disc in my collection.

Not having it on my DVR won't keep me from watching a movie when I want to, though. Notice, I haven't said that I'll sell off my DVDs, although I suppose I could recoup some of the money I've invested in that library by doing so, but that could be another option.

Originally Posted by Elee s

Movies on BD, but Not Worth Buying: If its not worth buying its most likely a waste of harddrive space too.

Not really. It will cost less than $.50 per movie once my hard drive gets close to full. That's a far cry from the current $15-$20 Blu-ray cost you'll find today. As the BD cost comes down, some of these movies may warrant a purchase, but not at today's prices. On the other hand, it's worth $.50 just to be able to watch the bass scenes from Kung Fu Panda whenever I want. It makes very good demo material for my new subwoofer.

Originally Posted by Elee s

Movies That Were In My BB Queue, but I'd Rather Watch for Free: This is the big one for me. It may be 3-6 months after the DVD release but theres some movies where I wouldnt bother even with a rental. And with movie channels you at least know that a new movie will eventually be on rather than being kept in the dark.
There are some movies I regretted not renting though since the content relied so heavily on sound and action scenes.

Yeah, this may be my biggest category. I'm happy not to have wasted a rental on the aforementioned Babylon A.D., but also Shoot 'Em Up, Predator, and a few others.

Some may have been worth watching, once. Others were a complete waste of time. If, by chance, some of these are worth rewatching, then they may make it to my Movies Not Worth Buying yet, but might be once the price falls list.

Some of the movies I wasted a rental on before getting my HD DVR include Mirrors, Dead Silence, Mummy 3, Journey to the Center of the Earth, Jumper, Ghost Town, The Happening, Tropic Thunder, Space Chimps, and Get Smart. All of these have been available for recording since I got my HD DVR, and none of them were worth rewatching, even for free.

Having the extra option is very nice, and close I'm real close to thinking it's an indispensable add-on for any serious movie lover.

Scott

[Elee s]

Originally Posted by SRW1000

One doesn't preclude the other. Most of the movies in this category I already own on DVD. Given the choice between DVD and HD archive, I'll probably opt for the hard drive version. I haven't watched it all the way through yet, but THX 1138 looks fantastic, for example.

On the other hand, having the DVR option is kind of like reviewing the newly available movies from the online rental websites. Once a week I go through the movie channels (a custom one-page guide screen), and see what's coming up. Two clicks later, the movies in my recording list. as the built-in hard drive fills up, I transfer them to the external hard drive, usually over night. It's really easy to build a collection that way, and it's faster to go through a hard drive's contents than it is to find a disc in my collection.

Not having it on my DVR won't keep me from watching a movie when I want to, though. Notice, I haven't said that I'll sell off my DVDs, although I suppose I could recoup some of the money I've invested in that library by doing so, but that could be another option.

Seems reasonable. But for me the decision between catalog blu rays and upscaled dvd is already a hard decision. Not entirely cause of $$$ but because of the age old question 'Is the DVD good enough?'
And without lossless audio, no extra special features, and with broadcast quality the upgrade is even less enticing.

Of course this doesnt include the cases in which there can be commercials , wrong AR, watermarks, and macroblocking. Or if the video is just the DVD version upscaled. In these cases theres absolutely no point in recording imo.

Not really. It will cost less than $.50 per movie once my hard drive gets close to full. That's a far cry from the current $15-$20 Blu-ray cost you'll find today. As the BD cost comes down, some of these movies may warrant a purchase, but not at today's prices. On the other hand, it's worth $.50 just to be able to watch the bass scenes from Kung Fu Panda whenever I want. It makes very good demo material for my new subwoofer.

I guess it depends on how much you watch a movie. I have a modest collection of dvds compared to some here and I watched each probably 3-4 times average including the initial theater viewing. I wanted these movies enough to spend $20-30 and Ive only viewed them a few times. How many times am I gonna watch a movie that I wasnt even sure was worth renting let alone keeping in a collection. Ill probably be fast forwarding scenes in the first viewing.

[SRW1000]

I would like to thank the mods for allowing this thread to be reopened.

Please remember that the focus of this thread is not concentrated on any individual posters, but rather to the role of an HD DVR to HD movie lovers.

Scott

[SRW1000]

Originally Posted by Elee s

Seems reasonable. But for me the decision between catalog blu rays and upscaled dvd is already a hard decision. Not entirely cause of $$$ but because of the age old question 'Is the DVD good enough?'
And without lossless audio, no extra special features, and with broadcast quality the upgrade is even less enticing.

If not the cost, why wouldn't you want to upgrade? If you could trade in any DVD for a BD version, wouldn't you do so?

Now, there are some legitimate compromises with HD DVR material, but the cost is very minimal. Not exactly free, but for far, far less than a BD copy.

Lossless audio is not that big of an issue, since the DVD had lossy audio anyway. I remain unconvinced that the majority of people can tell the difference with the vast majority of movies, anyway.

Originally Posted by Elee s

Of course this doesnt include the cases in which there can be commercials , wrong AR, watermarks, and macroblocking. Or if the video is just the DVD version upscaled. In these cases theres absolutely no point in recording imo.

Agreed, for the most part. In my viewing, commercial stations are not worth much, with the exception of MGM, which only has a single break in the middle of the movie. Wrong AR can be an issue, but is very dependant on the actual content. Would Death Race have been any more enjoyable at a 2.35:1 aspect ratio? On the other hand, HD Net and MGM both seem to embrace OAR. Station bugs are also annoying, but not always present. Macroblocking isn't that common (pixelation is a bigger issue), but both do show up occasionally. And, we can both agree that upconverted, or worse - stretched, content is worthless.

Originally Posted by Elee s

I guess it depends on how much you watch a movie. I have a modest collection of dvds compared to some here and I watched each probably 3-4 times average including the initial theater viewing. I wanted these movies enough to spend $20-30 and Ive only viewed them a few times. How many times am I gonna watch a movie that I wasnt even sure was worth renting let alone keeping in a collection. Ill probably be fast forwarding scenes in the first viewing.

That's one of the advantages of the HD DVR strategy. For movies that haven't been released on BD yet, you can't beat the price. For movies that were on my Blockbuster queue, I've saved a rental slot for a more deserving movie. If, by chance, I do like the movie, I still have the option of keeping in on my HD. Or, if I really, really like it, I can pick it up on BD, once the price falls to what I'm willing to pay. It's a whole extra tier for collectors.

Scott

[comixguru]

I love the HD content off cable. There's a great selection of movies on MGM HD, HD NET Movies, Epix, and the various premium stations (I get Showtime, Starz, Encore, and The Movie Channel is a cheap bundle). All of it I watch off HD PVR... since I HD PVR off to a HTPC, it's easy to store and keep. This has become exceptional easy now that Cable Card tuners are arriving on their own (and no longer require an entire OEM system).

Still, I do not have a large permanent collection of this content. Maybe 15 movies, stuff I know I won't see soon on BR and I enjoy more than the upconverted DVD on my 105" screen.

I am happy with most catalogs on SD DVD, especially if an upgrade is more than $7-8. They can look surprisingly good on my PJ set-up, and look fantastic on the 42" plasma.

Given the ease of amassing a large collection off HD PVR, and the plunging cost of storage... I plan to begin to collect more movies off HD PVR. Many times these satisfy my need to see a movie. This allows me time to consider if I need to own it as well as save money as the title slides further and further down in price as it ages.

Right now, HD Cable/Sat content is just too plentiful to ignore. It seems to me that more and more great catalog titles are popping up on there without word of an optical disc release.

I don't expect this to be more than a tiny niche choice out there. But, it's very valid... and very inexpensive.

[Taffy]

I too would like to add my thanks for reopening this thread.

I would also like to thank SRW1000 for a remarkable, well organized, balanced essay on what I believe to be a common sense approach that could grow in popularity as a viable addition or even an alternative to BD for many HD movie lovers.

[AV_Integrated]

Originally Posted by Taffy

I too would like to add my thanks for reopening this thread.

I would also like to thank SRW1000 for a remarkable, well organized, balanced essay on what I believe to be a common sense approach that could grow in popularity as a viable addition or even an alternative to BD for many HD movie lovers.

That's why it was reopened.

Frankly, I like my HD DVR, but the limited hard drive, and idiots at the cable company who can't provide crap for external hard drive expansion information completely blow chunks.

I certainly wouldn't replace my BB Online account with the premium channels for their extreme lag in coming to air. Plus, the lack of OAR for most movies really does bug me a fair amount.

Yet, when a show or movie does come on, it is nice to be able to record it.

[SRW1000]

Originally Posted by comixguru

Still, I do not have a large permanent collection of this content. Maybe 15 movies, stuff I know I won't see soon on BR and I enjoy more than the upconverted DVD on my 105" screen.

Right now, HD Cable/Sat content is just too plentiful to ignore. It seems to me that more and more great catalog titles are popping up on there without word of an optical disc release.

You've got that right. Just this weekend MGM had a bunch of the old Hammer Horror movies on. I sampled some of them, and they looked quite good. Granted, they have an MGM bug in the lower right corner, which is too bad. But, will these movies ever make it to BD? And, if they do, will they be worth $15 - $20?

Originally Posted by comixguru

Given the ease of amassing a large collection off HD PVR, and the plunging cost of storage... I plan to begin to collect more movies off HD PVR. Many times these satisfy my need to see a movie. This allows me time to consider if I need to own it as well as save money as the title slides further and further down in price as it ages.

Quite right. I've got over 110 movies now (it was a good weekend!). There's also something to be said for the ease and convenience of digital storage. No discs sitting on shelve. No looking through stacks of movies. Almost instant access.

Originally Posted by comixguru

I don't expect this to be more than a tiny niche choice out there. But, it's very valid... and very inexpensive.

Yes, certainly niche at this point. But, I think it's also a stepping stone to the future. Eventually, more and more movies will be stored on servers (local and/or remote). This kind of application can get people thinking about all the advantages of that change.

It also makes me yearn for XstreamHD, but that's a topic for another thread.

Scott

[Kosty]

I think my VIP series 722 HD DVRs from DISH are a great complement to my Blu-ray collection.

[SRW1000]

Originally Posted by AV_Integrated

Frankly, I like my HD DVR, but the limited hard drive, and idiots at the cable company who can't provide crap for external hard drive expansion information completely blow chunks.

With those limitations, this is not a great option for you. A standard HD DVR can fill up pretty quickly just with normal TV programming. Trying to use it for archived programming wouldn't be very practical.

Originally Posted by AV_Integrated

I certainly wouldn't replace my BB Online account with the premium channels for their extreme lag in coming to air. Plus, the lack of OAR for most movies really does bug me a fair amount.

Yet, when a show or movie does come on, it is nice to be able to record it.

Agreed. In fact, I just upgraded my Blockbuster plan to two-at-a-time, due to the upcoming flood of BD summer movies hitting at the end of this year. At the same time, there are a lot of middle to low tier movies that are popping up on the satellite stations now.

Scott

[Sporadic]

Only problem is that alot of HD channels crop their movies. Jaws at 1:78 is so fucking horrible.

[SRW1000]

Originally Posted by Sporadic

Only problem is that alot of HD channels crop their movies. Jaws at 1:78 is so fucking horrible.

It's hit and miss. HDNet Movies and MGM are good about keeping the original aspect ratio. Cinemax usually crops, but there are some exceptions. The Hustler was just on in OAR last week, as was Mother of Tears. I haven't had any experience with the other premium stations.

For some films, it matters to me. Others, not so much. If I do care, I'll just rent the BD or DVD. Plus, quite a few movies were filmed at 1.78:1 or 1.85:1, so this isn't an issue for them.

Scott

[Taffy]

I just glanced at the SyFy HD channel broadcast of "V" on my 108" HT screen and it looks fantastic in high definition. Naturally the aspect ratio is 4:3 as these episodes aired on network television in 1983 and 1984. Tomorrow begins the broadcast of some episodes of the series. I set my DVR to simply record everything.