HD DVR - An Indispensable Component for HD Movie Lovers

[neone]

It's an added convenience, but many movies recorded off satellite are AVC and almost always at 7Mbps.

It's better than not watching it, but if you have a side by side comparison and can single step through it, the artifacts are much easier to find than on BD.

As for collecting the movies, collecting the PVR movies are quite a challenge, and fwiw, pointless, since the whole point of collecting something is that you want to be able to have access to the best version that can be presented using today's technology.

If there was a movie that I am inclined to rent and have no intention of watching again, then it might make sense, but it's rare for me to watch a movie knowing full-well I won't like it and won't want to collect it.

HD PVR for me is a great way to time shift CSI and other TV shows, but it's rare for me to keep the movies. The few times I tried, I didn't keep them long on the pvr's limited storage, and the few at work that I managed to get descrambled footage from pvrs all over the world, I was surprised at how bit starved the encoding of the movies were. (Japan is an exception, they have very high bitrate on their japanese movies --- they're only mpeg2, but they're also 3x the bitrate of many recorded satellite HD-movies).

FWIW, I recorded the Tudors and Dexter on the PVRs, but ended up buying the BD versions when they were release --- because they were worth collecting.

I think HDTV in general and especially HD-PVR on cable are great. A few months on the old SA-8000HD (pre-8300 model) was what made DVDs unwatchable for me --- and this was years before HD on shiny disks were released.

As a device for collecting movies, it's limited by what the broadcasters are sending, not to mention the limited space on the HDD and inability to transfer it to a BD or other cheap recordable media.

[h0mi]

Originally Posted by Kosty

The issue with HD DVRs and especially using additional hard drives to extended storage is the complication factor and pain in the ass factor for normal humans to use it.

Before someone says "just plug it in" ... it's not quite that simple.

Most PVRs that most consumers could use if they bothered to use DVRs in the first place require the use of the WD My DVR E Sata drives. These are not cheap, they are typically $150-200. And the Sci atlanta or Tivo HD DVRs "marry" this hard drive to your internal one, making it so that as far as the DVR is concerned, you have "1 big hard drive". Convenient. NOT SWAPPABLE. You remove the drive, you lose EVERYTHING. You cannot record "just to the internal drive". You cannot plug it into another DVR. You certainly cannot plug it into a computer for extraction. So for these consumers they have to switch to Dish network, or they fill up the HDD and then can't record anything new.

Consumers have not rushed out to embrace this at the expense of DVDs, nevermind blu-ray. Blu-ray remains a growth industry... DVRs are growing but slowly (moreso than DVD renting) and should be overtaken by Blu-ray in a few years.

[motion]

Here is the procedure I used to connect an external drive to my existing Bell TV 9242. (Bell is the largest supplier of HD content in Canada.):

For Bell TV 9241 or 9242 HD PVR Plus receivers:

Expand your recording capacity in 3 easy steps:


1. Buy an external hard drive online or at any Bell store.
2. Plug the drive into the USB port on your HD PVR.
3. Transfer your PVR recordings to the external hard drive.

To connect the hard drive to your HD PVR:

1. Plug in the hard drive power source and connect the USB cable into the USB port on 9241 or 9242 HD PVR Plus
2. If the hard drive has never been connected to a receiver before, the receiver will ask you to format it. Select Yes.
3. You can now use your external hard drive!

...and that's it. No muss, no fuss. So if you know how to plug in a computer and you know how to plug in an external USB device, like say a camera or a printer or a scanner or a mouse, or a....etc, then you know how to plug in an external hard drive to a power source and then to the USB port on the PVR.

[Taffy]

Originally Posted by luclin999

Since I only watch movies on my 100" or 108" screens I would never enjoy watching digital broadcast films blown up to that size. Too much degradation from the original due to over compression and too many problems with ad bugs in the corner and aspect ratio changes. This is why I dropped all of the "premium" channels a few months ago.

Originally Posted by ack_bak

For me, movies off cable/sat have really been hit or miss over the years. Non-OAR, time edited, content edited, station logos, pop-up advertisements, normal advertisements, the occasional signal loss, etc. That is not to say that all movies on cable/sat fall into this category, but many do, and for me, I would rather watch the upconverted DVD in most instances.

Originally Posted by Grubert

How many of them in 1.78:1?

Originally Posted by Kosty

The issue with HD DVRs and especially using additional hard drives to extended storage is the complication factor and pain in the ass factor for normal humans to use it.

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

To me it makes more sense to simply buy the DVD if that particular title has not made it to HD DVD or BD yet. Then in many cases the movie is broadcasted in the incorrect AR, has commercials, has station logos, is cut to death, has artifacts especially when any action picks up, and you're dependent on Dish's subscription and an external hard drive (50 hard drives if you're Taffy).

Originally Posted by neone

It's an added convenience, but many movies recorded off satellite are AVC and almost always at 7Mbps.
It's better than not watching it, but if you have a side by side comparison and can single step through it, the artifacts are much easier to find than on BD.
As for collecting the movies, collecting the PVR movies are quite a challenge, and fwiw, pointless, since the whole point of collecting something is that you want to be able to have access to the best version that can be presented using today's technology.

You guys are so far removed from mainstream thinking that you just don't get it and probably never will.

Gentlemen, it's all about the movies...always has been; always will be. ALL kinds of movies; drama, comedy, action, science fiction, romance,... you name it...it's all there for the taking (recording). Kinda reminds of the DVD days....when I was like a kid in a candy shop. Also reminds of the old VHS days when recording was fun. That's all a HD DVR really is...just a modern day high definition version of the old VHS/Betamax machines. They are so damn easy to learn and operate...even a caveman could do it.
Look at some of those popular titles in my signature. See anything these titles have in common (besides being damn fun to watch)??? <drumroll please>

None of them are available in Blu-ray....and some may never be. Yet...they are ALL available for recording in high definition. All you need to store these titles and thousands more just like them and add them to your library is the right equipment easily available to just about anyone. This development represents a high definition movie lovers dream come true.

Check out how high definition TV viewers love their movies:

High-Def TV Viewing Exhibits Steady Increase

By: Brian Lowry
Published: Thu, October 29, 2009, 5:10 PM

Daily high-definition television viewing has risen by nearly two-thirds in just the last two years -- from 26% to 43% -- based on a follow-up study by Knowledge Networks comparing a group polled in 2007 with their habits in 2009.

In that time ownership of HD sets nearly doubled -- climbing to 38% -- but another part of the growth has to do with more programming being available in HD.

Movies and sports, not surprisingly, remain the most-preferred genres for HD viewing, but people in the sample group (more than 500 of them age 13 to 54) also cited more frequent viewing of sitcoms, dramas, news and "how-to" shows in high-definition -- and just over two-thirds said they "always make the effort" to watch in HD when it's available.

There's no huge newsflash here, except that people with HD sets seem to like them and are eager to take advantage of the technology. There's also an interesting schism between males -- who are considerably more likely to seek out HD -- and females. For example, nearly half of males say that check HD channels when first turning on the TV, compared to 19% of women.

According to Knowledge Networks, the real lesson here might be for advertisers -- especially those targeting men, who say they are more likely to notice and pay attention to commercials if they're in the HD format.

In other words, the next time you see an ad that says this Bud's for you, it probably ought to be saying it with HD clarity.

As for genres, here's a breakdown (by percentage) of those watched "Very" or "Fairly" often in HD:

Movies -- 59
Sports (games) -- 47
Sitcoms/comedy -- 42
Action/adventure -- 40
Local news/public affairs -- 38
Drama -- 38
Reality -- 28
National evening news -- 28

http://weblogs.variety.com/bltv/2009...-increase.html

[Rich86]

Originally Posted by Kosty

The issue with HD DVRs and especially using additional hard drives to extended storage is the complication factor and pain in the ass factor for normal humans to use it.

The SA 8300 boxes a lot of cable providers use is a case in point. Its just not user friendly and the cable companies have no incentive to make it so as they want to encourage VOD purchases. To find out what works etc requires research on sites like AVS which most consumers won't do, and the technical requirements SATA drive etc are a bit tough besides the fact that the drive storage is permanently blended with the single box's harddrive.

The DISH VIP series HD DVRs make it as simple as it probably can be , but its still a bit of a PITA and most humans won't bother. I love it, but even when I show how relatively easy it is to others, I still get glazed over eyeballs.

I agree that you have to do a little bit of homework to set up an external hard drive with the 8300 - but it is very easy:
Insert the hard drive into the case, connect the extrernal hard drive device to the DVR with the e-Sata cable and connect to power, unplug the dvr, wait a bit, plug it back in, say "yes" to permitting the dvr to format - and off you go.
Once it is set up - you do not even know it is there except for the very low percentage of used up space you see as a result. It is completely seamless with the DVR it is attached to, and using it requires no special handling or knowledge. And it is fairly inexpensive - there is no need to buy the kind of pre-packaged external hard drive unit mentioned earlier in this thread.
No, you cannot unplug it and watch whatever is stored on it somewhere else - but like most things, you can't have everything (simple/seamless use as well as total control and flexibility).

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by Taffy

You guys are so far removed from mainstream thinking that you just don't get it and probably never will.

Gentlemen, it's all about the movies...always has been; always will be. ALL kinds of movies; drama, comedy, action, science fiction, romance,... you name it...it's all there for the taking (recording). Kinda reminds of the DVD days....when I was like a kid in a candy shop. Also reminds of the old VHS days when recording was fun. That's all a HD DVR really is...just a modern day high definition version of the old VHS/Betamax machines. They are so damn easy to learn and operate...even a caveman could do it.
Look at some of those popular titles in my signature. See anything these titles have in common (besides being damn fun to watch)??? <drumroll please>

None of them are available in Blu-ray....and some may never be. Yet...they are ALL available for recording in high definition. All you need to store these titles and thousands more just like them and add them to your library is the right equipment easily available to just about anyone. This development represents a high definition movie lovers dream come true.

Check out how high definition TV viewers love their movies:

http://weblogs.variety.com/bltv/2009...-increase.html

From your own article you linked to:
-38% of people own an HDTV
-of those 38%, 49% watch HD channels on a regular basis (ie daily viewing)
-of those 49%, 59%, or a little over half, like to watch movies

To summarize, less than half the American population owns an HDTV, and of those that do, less than half watch HD channels on a regular basis. And of those that do, just a little over half watch movies in HD. Where does that put us? At about 11-12% of all American households? And what percent of American households own an Blu-Ray player again? Isn't it like 11%?

Yet you keep preaching how Blu-Ray is underperforming and how great and amazing DVD is? Sounds like a double standard to me Taffy if you then say that mainstream America is watching HD movies.

And of those 59%, what percent of those people do you think almost exclusively record movies onto their HD DVR and separate hard drives like you do vs renting or buying an optical disc? I would venture to say a small number. Probably 2%.

[vinnie97]

Originally Posted by Taffy

You guys are so far removed from mainstream thinking that you just don't get it and probably never will.

Now that's rich (no offense, Rich ).

[Taffy]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

Yet you keep preaching how Blu-Ray is underperforming...

It is...isn't it??? Even you should be able to admit that.

... and how great and amazing DVD is?

It is...isn't it?? Even you should be able to admit that.

... Sounds like a double standard to me Taffy if you then say that mainstream America is watching HD movies.

Now...where did I say that??? I will say that HD owners enjoy watching HD movies more than sports.
Ack....
Lets cut to the chase here...
For your average Joe Blow movie lover with a HD set and a DBS feed to a HD DVR with a 1.5GB external HDD......it just doesn't get much better than that. Even you should be able to admit that.

[Taffy]

Originally Posted by Rich86

I agree that you have to do a little bit of homework to set up an external hard drive with the 8300 - but it is very easy:
Insert the hard drive into the case, connect the extrernal hard drive device to the DVR with the e-Sata cable and connect to power, unplug the dvr, wait a bit, plug it back in, say "yes" to permitting the dvr to format - and off you go.
Once it is set up - you do not even know it is there except for the very low percentage of used up space you see as a result. It is completely seamless with the DVR it is attached to, and using it requires no special handling or knowledge.
No, you cannot unplug it and watch whatever is stored on it somewhere else - but like most things, you can't have everything (simple/seamless use as well as total control and flexibility).

Interesting that Dish and DirecTV have different approaches to this remarkable feature. Dish promotes it and DirecTv doesn't. The new Dish ViP 9200 has a 1 TB internal HD and still has the USB port for an external HDD hook up.

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by Taffy

Ack....
Lets cut to the chase here...
For your average Joe Blow movie lover with a HD set and a DBS feed to a HD DVR with a 1.5GB external HDD......it just doesn't get much better than that. Even you should be able to admit that.

No it does get much better than that. It is called a Blu-Ray player and a Netflix plan.

Your own survey shows it. Only a minority of HDTV owners are frequently watching movies. And of those, only a small fraction are going to buy an external drive and store movies on it in lieu of simply buying the optical disc of the movie.

Go look at the Videobusiness pie-chart numbers that you posted again. It lumps VOD from cable/sat together with downloads/streaming, but clearly you can see that that market makes up less than 10% of all home video revenue. Optical disc makes up the other 90%.

[h0mi]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

No it does get much better than that. It is called a Blu-Ray player and a Netflix plan.

Your own survey shows it. Only a minority of HDTV owners are frequently watching movies. And of those, only a small fraction are going to buy an external drive and store movies on it in lieu of simply buying the optical disc of the movie.

Go look at the Videobusiness pie-chart numbers that you posted again. It lumps VOD from cable/sat together with downloads/streaming, but clearly you can see that that market makes up less than 10% of all home video revenue. Optical disc makes up the other 90%.

And then theres " For example, nearly half of males say that check HD channels when first turning on the TV, compared to 19% of women."

Any wagers how much of this is the dreaded "ps3 demographic"?

[h0mi]

There's no huge newsflash here, except that people with HD sets seem to like them and are eager to take advantage of the technology. There's also an interesting schism between males -- who are considerably more likely to seek out HD -- and females.

So they'll take advantage of it, except to completely shun Blu-ray because DVD or HD-TNT/etc. is "good enough".

None of them are available in Blu-ray....and some may never be. Yet...they are ALL available for recording in high definition.

-1 for hyperbolie. HDNet airs no more than 100 different movies a month and I'm confident the other channels follow an identical pattern for movie showing. There is simply no way that all 100,000+ titles available on DVD have ever been aired on these channels in HD.

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by h0mi

So they'll take advantage of it, except to completely shun Blu-ray because DVD or HD-TNT/etc. is "good enough".

Possibly. I am sure there will be a segment of the marketplace that will feel that way.

And OBTW - I don't know of any HD channel package offered by any HD content provider that ONLY offers TNT-HD.

All of us would agree that SD content shot and presented with SD technology is not as good (PQ) as HD content shot and presented with HD technology. The good enough crowd may not want an additional expense to get the best PQ which BD represents. Not everyone wants the best because the best costs extra.

Only real question left to answer is how big of a segment is it? Only time will tell.

[Taffy]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

No it does get much better than that. It is called a Blu-Ray player and a Netflix plan.

OKay. I see you want to max out Joe Blow's credit card. You can't have just a BD player with out a few other odds and ends... right. So...after you buy the BD player, lets add a Receiver for the lossless audio. Need 5 to 7 speakers plus a sub-woofer too and a Netflix account. Yeeegads...this is getting expensive. All Joe Blow wanted to do was watch GLADIATOR off TNT on his new 30" HDTV. Now his wife is divorcing him, the neighbors are complaining about the noise and he just found out he's lost his job. WTG Ack!!!

[Elee s]

Originally Posted by Taffy

None of them are available in Blu-ray....and some may never be. Yet...they are ALL available for recording in high definition. All you need to store these titles and thousands more just like them and add them to your library is the right equipment easily available to just about anyone. This development represents a high definition movie lovers dream come true.

You never answered my question in the other thread. If I signed up for your service tomorrow, the exact same one. Youre telling me I have access to all those movies at that very moment?

I also recorded broadcast movies on VHS. I wouldnt say that was exactly a perquisite of a movie lover, to be honest I was just cheap.

Check out how high definition TV viewers love their movies:

They may love their movies but by your standards you arent impressed with those numbers remember? Satellite HD customers make up the same or less marketshare as blu ray.