One year later: Warner's decision proved correct

[dvdman]

Huh.....they are not a problem...okay and the Earth is flat and not round.
Of course they quality of your software is problem. Who is the world
wants to pat $35 for BD a copy of "Predator" that looks like a dvd version?
You might as well stuck for your $10 dvd version. By the way pricing is an issue right NOW and will be 3 years from now if they don't go down especially iconsidering how great the economy is right now.

Someone was going off about random low interest catalog titles with lower quality like they somehow are a major problem. Sorry, but they're not the major problem some like to pretend they are.

Originally Posted by kowhite

But the path to wider adoption is also not going to be achieved by over blowing issues and pretending they matter on a level that quite frankly...they do not.
Some people go on and on about how pricing right now is too expensive, so people will never ever buy into the format. Which is, well, short sighted, cause today's pricing isn't going to influence somebody buying Blu-ray three years from now.

Bottom line...while critisizing these lower quality releases for being just that is reasonable and in fact should be encouraged, these things need to be put into proper perspective. Much like how in the format war certain people were prone to taking minor issues and blowing them way out of proportion, it is not surprising that certain people (many of the same) are doing it with Blu-ray alone. You may not understand this...I've read a lot of your posts, and you have not in the past demostrated a particularly keen insight about this topic. But, one can hope, and at least point out that a bit of rational expectation is good to have, as opposed to a sky is falling attitude that some of you guys have about everything.

[Merrick97]

Originally Posted by dvdman

Oh you forgot to mention the $35-$40 BD catalog releases thanks
to Warner's decision. .

I didnt mention this because IT IS A FLAT OUT LIE.

I have NEVER seen a Warner title cost more than $30 at any major retailer and theyre usually quite a bit less from amazon.


Thats not to say that I dont think that bluray media could be cheaper, but this $35-40 is getting old and people look cry baby fanboys when they use that as an argument.

[Sbert]

Originally Posted by dvdman

Huh.....they are not a problem...okay and the Earth is flat and not round.
Of course they quality of your software is problem. Who is the world
wants to pat $35 for BD a copy of "Predator" that looks like a dvd version?
You might as well stuck for your $10 dvd version. By the way pricing is an issue right NOW and will be 3 years from now if they don't go down especially iconsidering how great the economy is right now.

Someone was going off about random low interest catalog titles with lower quality like they somehow are a major problem. Sorry, but they're not the major problem some like to pretend they are.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...1544490&sr=8-1

Predator New, no tax, free shipping = 18 dollars.

Predator New, no Tax, + shipping = 16.37 dollars.

So, for 6-8 dollar premium, to OWN the title. Of course, I'd probably just rent this through netflix if I wanted it. But if I had to choose to buy one copy now, I'd buy the hidef version with those price premiums.

[Justinian]

Originally Posted by dvdman

Huh.....they are not a problem...okay and the Earth is flat and not round.
Of course they quality of your software is problem. Who is the world
wants to pat $35 for BD a copy of "Predator" that looks like a dvd version?
You might as well stuck for your $10 dvd version.....

Poor choice of example. Before you attribute the PQ of Predator to studio indifference/carelessness, you really should read writer/producer/film buff Cliff Stephenson's AVS posts on why the Blu-ray looks the way it does (and it's far better than the DVD), including the following:

there were a lot of editorial tricks that were employed to finish that film. Shots were flopped, wide shots were zoomed to create mediums, medium shots were zoomed to create close ups. These tricks contribute to the look of Predator....... you have a bunch of guys all judging quality based not on what something should look like, but rather on what they ASSUME it should look like.

So about 6 hours ago, I was able to see a 35mm presentation of Predator at one of the American Cinematheque theaters here in Los Angeles (and a print which looked to be quite new). After enduring complaint after complaint on this and other forums about the look of the Blu-ray, I was particularly focused on the look of the film and came home to run the BD up against what I had just seen. The bottom line (and final word as far as I'm concerned) is that not only is the Blu-ray a completely accurate presentation of the film, in many ways it's actually superior to any theatrical presentation. Much of the FX work has been cleaned up versus the theatrical prints (such as the original arrival of the Predator on Earth -the first shot of the film- which is polluted with dirt from the FX compositing. The BD has been cleaned to show no dirt at all in this shot.) The colors of the BD are a bit more vibrant, the image noticeably crisper (no doubt due in some part to the reduction in screen size) and the black level and shadow detail is much cleaner/clearer than the 35mm print. They were definitely able to dial things in and improve the image on Blu-ray without harming the look of the film.

But again, the Blu-ray is a completely accurate presentation of Predator and should not be subjected to any criticism. If you don't like the way the Predator Blu-ray looks, than unfortunately...
You just don't like the way PREDATOR looks.

etc.

[kowhite]

Originally Posted by dvdman

Huh.....they are not a problem...okay and the Earth is flat and not round.
Of course they quality of your software is problem. Who is the world
wants to pat $35 for BD a copy of "Predator" that looks like a dvd version?

It isn't a major problem. It isn't going to cause Blu-ray to crumble and not reach a wider audience over time. It is something we as consumers should consider when we buy a movie. It is nothing we should be congratulating studios for, or not complaining about. But when you look at the big picture...you're not going to be able to make a good argument that Blu-ray as a whole is suffering severely because this or that film isn't up to the standards of the best. Like I said...it's not the major problem some people try to make it out to be.

As for the pricing...well, if you think today's pricing is going to be an issue for someone three years from now, then you're a bit of a nitwit. Hey, this thing cost $25 three years ago...it's only $14.99 now, but $25 is too much, and that's how much it cost 3 years ago so I'm not buying! And you think that's NOT idiotic? Pricing is a threshold issue...but for it to be a PROBLEM, it must be prohibitively keeping down revenues and profits from a level that the studios are gunning for. In other words, you need to make n argument that pricing is stalling the format, or causing the studios to make less profit than they would otherwise. You have not. Nor can you really make such an argument better than the studios can...since they actually know their financials. So is it a problem for Blu-ray? Or is it just a problem for you, and you think too highly of your personal price thresholds? Yeah, it's the latter. If the prices needed to be so much cheaper...they will be. But they don't need to take a dump so quickly, because there's more to pricing then "as cheap as possible so as many buy as can be!" If that's what you think the end all be all is of pricing, then you don't know what they fuck you're talking about. Don't get me wrong...I understand why people want movies cheaper...but that doesn't mean saying cheaper is what BD must do as soon as possible is always correct from an industry and long term planning point of view.

People like you blow these issues up to be bigger than they need to be. I have no doubt about that.

[Rich86]

Originally Posted by kowhite

But the path to wider adoption is also not going to be achieved by over blowing issues and pretending they matter on a level that quite frankly...they do not. Someone was going off about random low interest catalog titles with lower quality like they somehow are a major problem. Sorry, but they're not the major problem some like to pretend they are.

Some people go on and on about how pricing right now is too expensive, so people will never ever buy into the format. Which is, well, short sighted, cause today's pricing isn't going to influence somebody buying Blu-ray three years from now.

Bottom line...while critisizing these lower quality releases for being just that is reasonable and in fact should be encouraged, these things need to be put into proper perspective. Much like how in the format war certain people were prone to taking minor issues and blowing them way out of proportion, it is not surprising that certain people (many of the same) are doing it with Blu-ray alone. You may not understand this...I've read a lot of your posts, and you have not in the past demostrated a particularly keen insight about this topic. But, one can hope, and at least point out that a bit of rational expectation is good to have, as opposed to a sky is falling attitude that some of you guys have about everything.

So - you obviously agree with what I said - continuing to point at supposed HD-DVD issues from a year or 2 ago is not at all relevant to blu-ray issues today - right?
Be a man - Just give it up and say YES!!

[93xfan]

the decision made by Warner was the best move they could've made for a couple of reasons:

1) HD DVDs were more fragile than even DVD, and would have playback problems when rented from Netflix for example.

2) 1/4 of HD DVDs (maybe even less) had lossless audio. it may not have affected Transformers, but the difference between lossy audio and lossless audio was noticeable in most tracks.

3) many movies are taking advantage of the extra space/higher bitrate that Blu-ray offers- such as HD special features and the previously mentioned lossless audio.

4) Blu-ray has certainly helped Sony's PS3, which keeps things competitive between Playstation and Xbox.

anyway, in about a years time, Blu-ray has pretty much matched HD DVD's price in stand alone players. also, consumer confusion/apprehension about the format war is out of the way now. with the economy the way it is, people don't need another thing to worry about. sure, a few people are upset about HD DVD, but it was for the best.

the only thing they need to do now is drop the price of software and force all major studios (Warner Bros.) to release every title with lossless audio (and on a BD50 disc).

[kowhite]

Originally Posted by Rich86

So - you obviously agree with what I said - continuing to point at supposed HD-DVD issues from a year or 2 ago is not at all relevant to blu-ray issues today - right?
Be a man - Just give it up and say YES!!

Give what up? Yeah, HD DVD isn't relevant to a discussion of Blu-ray's future. That's why I didn't talk about it in my post. Now, got any comments on anything I actually wrote about?

[Rich86]

Originally Posted by kowhite

Give what up? Yeah, HD DVD isn't relevant to a discussion of Blu-ray's future. That's why I didn't talk about it in my post. Now, got any comments on anything I actually wrote about?

Yeah, HD DVD isn't relevant to a discussion of Blu-ray's future.
Yeah - we agree!

got any comments on anything I actually wrote about?
No - because it had nothing to do with what I had posted originally that you responded to . . .

[GizmoDVD]

Originally Posted by Merrick97

I didnt mention this because IT IS A FLAT OUT LIE.

I have NEVER seen a Warner title cost more than $30 at any major retailer and theyre usually quite a bit less from amazon.

Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice!!!! You can thank that awesome bonus CD sampler for the price hike. Luckily, Target decided they wanted to actually move this title so they lowered the price to $29.99. Also, I don't need to mention Casablanca...

[Sbert]

Originally Posted by GizmoDVD

Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice!!!! You can thank that awesome bonus CD sampler for the price hike. Luckily, Target decided they wanted to actually move this title so they lowered the price to $29.99. Also, I don't need to mention Casablanca...

While I agree you will find titles at 30 dollars at major retailers time to time, I also have to point out that all of these titles can be obtained for a lot less with a little bit of research.

[GizmoDVD]

Originally Posted by Sbert

While I agree you will find titles at 30 dollars at major retailers time to time, I also have to point out that all of these titles can be obtained for a lot less with a little bit of research.

Of course they can, but if that was so, stores wouldn't carry these titles if everyone was researching for the best possible price (i.e. Amazon).

[Pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by GizmoDVD

Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice!!!! You can thank that awesome bonus CD sampler for the price hike. Luckily, Target decided they wanted to actually move this title so they lowered the price to $29.99. Also, I don't need to mention Casablanca...

Of course you do n not need to mention Casablanca. If you are going to then come commenting on the current price for the DVD release of La Femme Publique, which was released just recently.

Pro-B

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by Merrick97
I didnt mention this because IT IS A FLAT OUT LIE.

I have NEVER seen a Warner title cost more than $30 at any major retailer and theyre usually quite a bit less from amazon.

From Best Buy Online:

Blade Runner $34.99

Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix - $34.99

Batman Begins $44.99

Michael Clayton $34.99

10,000 B.C. $34.99

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....A%3E1900-01-01

[GizmoDVD]

Originally Posted by Pro-bassoonist

Of course you do n not need to mention Casablanca. If you are going to then come commenting on the current price for the DVD release of La Femme Publique, which was released just recently.

Pro-B

Huh?

So somehow we went from talking about an American title that was previously an HD DVD exclusive now only available in a lavish BD boxset to a DVD boxset of a French film that most people could not care less of with a Director probably only you could pronounce? Really?