Red's Scarlet: Is Blu-ray in trouble?

[Sarang]

This is a camera coming from Red that can do 3K and will be selling to the Prosumer market at $3000. I got the info from HighDef magazine. What is VERY worrisome is the fact they can manage to get the image shot from this onto a DVD. Hopefully it's only good for backup but if it's a good length, like playback of even a short length feature film, we're in trouble. Yes I know it's only 3K with no Lossless but I doubt most consumers would care as long as the video was there and they could play it off a cheaply upgraded DVD player.
Your thoughts?

Oh and btw, so far Soderbergh and Jackson have shot some product on RED cams. "Jumper" for example was shot on one. For audio it's 4 channels uncompressed but "Jumper" has 5.1 so I suppose that's not an issue as they had a separate setup. Video looks to ALMOST match film except that it's 4:2:2. I suspect if they manage to get it up to 4:4:4 soon enough the RED One's(4K res. at 30 fps) and RED Epic's(5K) will replace the standard 35 mm. cameras in Hollywood.

[Thulium]

Originally Posted by Sarang

This is a camera coming from Red that can do 3K and will be selling to the Prosumer market at $3000. I got the info from HighDef magazine. What is VERY worrisome is the fact they can manage to get the image shot from this onto a DVD. Hopefully it's only good for backup but if it's a good length, like playback of even a short length feature film, we're in trouble. Yes I know it's only 3K with no Lossless but I doubt most consumers would care as long as the video was there and they could play it off a cheaply upgraded DVD player.
Your thoughts?

Oh and btw, so far Soderbergh and Jackson have shot some product on RED cams. "Jumper" for example was shot on one. For audio it's 4 channels uncompressed but "Jumper" has 5.1 so I suppose that's not an issue as they had a separate setup. Video looks to ALMOST match film except that it's 4:2:2. I suspect if they manage to get it up to 4:4:4 soon enough the RED One's(4K res. at 30 fps) and RED Epic's(5K) will replace the standard 35 mm. cameras in Hollywood.

How do you figure that the introduction of a high def camera is bad news for Blu-ray? Just because the name of the company is "Red"??

If its shooting 3k, its either only getting 10-20 minutes per DVD or its compressing it down so much it might as well be SD.

Regardless of what certain deluded fanboys around here would have you believe, DVD's are still 4.7gb/layer and you don't fit very much raw HD video on 4.7gbs. Even compressed, you're losing significant quality and its not exactly easy (or a good idea) to compress video as you are shooting it.

The Red One is positioned to replace 35mm cameras, but many producers and DP's refuse to use it because they LIKE film. But shooting in high def is a HELP to Blu-ray, not a hindrance.

[Imperius]

Agreed, shooting with HD cameras benefits Blu-Ray. Look at the IMAX footage from the Dark Knight, that movie was made for Blu-Ray.

With the amounts of Blu-Ray movies starting to pick up, my collection is getting huge. I haven't bought a DVD in over a year now and have no plans to do so.

[Sarang]

Thulium my concern was just the playback issue, not the shooting.

Frankly the price of the RED One is fucking amazing. I mean when they list color as RGB, we're talking 4:4:4 right? I mean if so the price of the Scarlet and RED One are revolutionary PERIOD as long as the quality is there. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if most TV productions go overnight to the RED One. Where's the loss? The cam is $17,800 and 4K. Doing this they can start shooting further TV seasons in it and milk the consumer later when we get to film res. discs.

[kowhite]

Originally Posted by Imperius

Agreed, shooting with HD cameras benefits Blu-Ray. Look at the IMAX footage from the Dark Knight, that movie was made for Blu-Ray.

Um, while I agree Dark Knight will look amazing on Blu-ray...I'm not sure that really has a place in a conversation about digital HD cameras. IMAX cameras are still film.

[Coren]

Originally Posted by kowhite

Um, while I agree Dark Knight will look amazing on Blu-ray...I'm not sure that really has a place in a conversation about digital HD cameras. IMAX cameras are still film.

I think the point was simply that filming in higher resolutions doesn't mean trouble for Blu-ray, when Blu-ray can visibly benefit from filming in higher resolutions.

[StarrySkies]

Originally Posted by Sarang

...I mean when they list color as RGB, we're talking 4:4:4 right?

This camera, like most, uses a bayer pattern sensor. As such, it only captures one color channel per pixel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter

In other words, only 33% of the actual image data is captured and the remaining 66% is interpolated. Granted, advanced interpolation techniques can reconstruct a very convincing looking image, but technically, not one single pixel in the final image is completely accurate.

Just putting this out as info for people who didn't know. I have nothing against digital cameras.

[HiDefFanboy]

Originally Posted by StarrySkies

This camera, like most, uses a bayer pattern sensor. As such, it only captures one color channel per pixel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter

In other words, only 33% of the actual image data is captured and the remaining 66% is interpolated. Granted, advanced interpolation techniques can reconstruct a very convincing looking image, but technically, not one single pixel in the final image is completely accurate.

Just putting this out as info for people who didn't know. I have nothing against digital cameras.

While you are correct - people should realize this is a 4K camera - even though no single 4k pixel is correct, when you bring the resolution down to HiDef 1080P the interpolation works really really well, and a lot more pixels on the 1080P image are actually 'correct'

[BobDiaz]

Maybe the correct title for this thread should be, "RED's Cameras, Is 35mm Film In Trouble?"

The correct answer would be, "Not Exactly", but the Red Cameras do open doors for many low cost productions. Scarlet will be a 2/3", 3K image sensor with 8x zoom lens for around $3,000. This is NOT the camera to shoot your home videos on, but for the beginning filmmaker, this is like a dream come true.

The EPIC, a 5k camera is expected to come out in 2009. The Red Cameras are single chip cameras that use a Bayer filter, so 1/2 the pixels are green, 1/4 are blue, and 1/4 are red. Still, the results from the Red One Camera (4k) have shown the camera produces beautiful images.

On Location Shooting, "Andrew Andrews" using the Red One:




Information About Red's Progress:
http://web.mac.com/bobdiaz/Site/Podc..._Progress.html

Digital lacks the "Organic Look" of film and the dynamic range of digital 8.5 stops) is less than film (11 stops). However, in terms of speed of production and cost, digital wins over film.


In other areas, Panasonic is about to introduce a low end professional HD camera, the HMC-150 for $3,995 (the street price should be $3,495). This will bring the cost of shooting in HD down to a level that even the VERY small videographers can afford it.

Information about the Panasonic HVX-150:
http://web.mac.com/bobdiaz/Site/HMC150.html


All of these changes in production open the doors to allowing low cost productions to be made. As a result, Blu-ray will see more specialty HD videos in the future. So, RED and the other stuff help Blu-ray, not hurt it.


Bob Diaz

[ack_bak]

No. Blu-Ray is not in trouble... Is this thread even necessary?

[Favelle]

Is it CMOS or CCD or something completely different?

[StarrySkies]

Originally Posted by Favelle

Is it CMOS or CCD or something completely different?

It's a CMOS.

[theflux]

I really don't even get what the point of this thread is.

How could a high resolution camera possibly make Blu-ray be in trouble?

[Reverend Blu]

Originally Posted by Sarang

This is a camera coming from Red that can do 3K and will be selling to the Prosumer market at $3000. I got the info from HighDef magazine. What is VERY worrisome is the fact they can manage to get the image shot from this onto a DVD. Hopefully it's only good for backup but if it's a good length, like playback of even a short length feature film, we're in trouble. Yes I know it's only 3K with no Lossless but I doubt most consumers would care as long as the video was there and they could play it off a cheaply upgraded DVD player.
Your thoughts?

Oh and btw, so far Soderbergh and Jackson have shot some product on RED cams. "Jumper" for example was shot on one. For audio it's 4 channels uncompressed but "Jumper" has 5.1 so I suppose that's not an issue as they had a separate setup. Video looks to ALMOST match film except that it's 4:2:2. I suspect if they manage to get it up to 4:4:4 soon enough the RED One's(4K res. at 30 fps) and RED Epic's(5K) will replace the standard 35 mm. cameras in Hollywood.

No.

An affordable HD camera means more independent movies being made and that means more money to buy recordable bluray blank media as independent filmakers follow the film festival circuit as for example the producer of the movie the signal got a distribuition deal from Magnolia for four million dollars for the film The Signal...........a deal most independent film makers are willing to give up a vital organ for.

It also means more independent pilot ideas for tv shows get done and more bluray blank media get purchased as independent producers follow the distribution festivals.

it also means airports needing details in security videos are looking to buy both this camera and stacks, stacks and more stacks of blank bluray discs to save the recorded data.

it means retailers selling more bluray blank media discs make more sales prompting more bluray blank discs being made to re-re-re stock those empty retail shelves with even more bluray blank disc media.

it means dads and moms this upcoming black friday deep, deep discounts! marking this camera as a must have, will turn anyone to roadkill that gets in the way of this purchase leading to.........

did you say more bluray blank discs being sold?

yes dads and moms are going to want some bluray discs to record on.

recap:
lower priced high quality HD cameras lead to more sales of those cameras and more HD recordings lead to sales, sales, sales, SALES! of blank bluray discs to record on

leading to more folks wanting more regular Hollywood movies on bluray discs to enjoy on their HDTV systems as more bluray movies become available for HD content purchase.

note: once you transfer the HD movie data from the camera onto the laptop or workstation then its editing time and then its burning time for bluray discs.

[StarrySkies]

Originally Posted by theflux

I really don't even get what the point of this thread is.

That places you in good company.