Digital doesn't break disc- DVD, BD hold up despite onslaught of negative press

[MrAngles]

Originally Posted by crazzeto

no offence but you lose by virtue of the fact that you're using comcast for HD.... Not really trying to put you down personally, but were you aware of the compression games comcast is playing that every other TV provider isn't? If that's your only choice, I'd recommend switching to satallite if cost effective and practical.

I think that the point is to consider how much the bitrate will need to be lowered for Netflix to be able to provide streaming HD. It could easily be better than Comcast's on-demand HD content but you can't expect X-Box store-quality video to be available for on-demand instant viewing at this point.

[Flex Mentallo]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

There are several problems I see with Netfilx's streaming service. The titles are not new releases. There is no HD. I don't see either of those things happening anytime soon with the Netflix streaming service on the 360. Why? Because MS already offers that at a much higher price.

The Netflix/Xbox service dosen't need to be in HD. I think further down the line they may offer an HD option (besides the for pay Xbox Marketplace) maybe in late 2009.

I have a Netflix account and I still rent DVD's (I have a couple of DVD's from them now). With this new service I can clear my que of all DVD's and just fill it with blu ray's and HD DVD (they said they would slow down HD DVD rentals but I still get them with no problems).

As long as the films are in their correct aspect ratio I'm fine with this service.

Once this service goes on-line the first flick I'm streaming is going to be Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo.

[crazzeto]

Originally Posted by MrAngles

I think that the point is to consider how much the bitrate will need to be lowered for Netflix to be able to provide streaming HD. It could easily be better than Comcast's on-demand HD content but you can't expect X-Box store-quality video to be available for on-demand instant viewing at this point.

Well for openers I was more thinking about x-box video store when I posted rather than netflix, mainly because I haven't even seen a netflix film streamed yet. I can't imagin that netflix will compare to video store downloads, and probalby might even look worse that DVD... But must becase netflix doesn't cut the mustard right down doesn't mean the whole of digital downloads suck, period end of story.... The fact is, netflix is actually one of the lowest quality strreams...

Check out video store or a PSN download if you have the chance, I think you might well be in for a supprise as to exactly how good DD quality actually is. I'm not going to claim bluray quality because it isn't, but you may find your self much prefering digital downloads to DVD's if those are your options.

[Flex Mentallo]

Originally Posted by crazzeto

Check out video store or a PSN download if you have the chance, I think you might well be in for a supprise as to exactly how good DD quality actually is. I'm not going to claim bluray quality because it isn't, but you may find your self much prefering digital downloads to DVD's if those are your options.

I'm very impressed with the Xbox Marketplace downloads. About a month ago I downloaded the freebie "The Middleman" pilot in HD and I was thoroughly impressed with its picture and 5.1 audio quality. With my Fios connection it only took 15 minutes to download the entire 43 minute episode.

I'm stoked for this Xbox/Netflix service. I can't wait to check it out.

[MrAngles]

Originally Posted by crazzeto

Check out video store or a PSN download if you have the chance, I think you might well be in for a supprise as to exactly how good DD quality actually is. I'm not going to claim bluray quality because it isn't, but you may find your self much prefering digital downloads to DVD's if those are your options.

I've seen X-Box HD downloads and I do prefer them to DVDs (visually, not in price), but downloads like that are a different animal than streaming video. Netflix sd instant viewing can look pretty good with a fast connection, substantially better than comcast sd on demand, but internet bandwidth would severely limit hd video streaming.

[crazzeto]

Originally Posted by Flex Mentallo

I'm very impressed with the Xbox Marketplace downloads. About a month ago I downloaded the freebie "The Middleman" pilot in HD and I was thoroughly impressed with its picture and 5.1 audio quality. With my Fios connection it only took 15 minutes to download the entire 43 minute episode.

I'm stoked for this Xbox/Netflix service. I can't wait to check it out.

Wow, how long before it let you actually play the video? I can't imagin much longer than a couple of seconds!! I can't wait until VZW FiOS is in my area (god knows when), TWC cable just doesn't cut it.

[crazzeto]

Originally Posted by MrAngles

I've seen X-Box HD downloads and I do prefer them to DVDs (visually, not in price), but downloads like that are a different animal than streaming video. Netflix sd instant viewing can look pretty good with a fast connection, substantially better than comcast sd on demand, but internet bandwidth would severely limit hd video streaming.

Except that with higher end connections, you can basically stream X-Box downloads in HD with just a couple of seconds of buffering already. It's a bit a of a digital downloads grey area, what for some might be 10/15min before you can even play the video, for others might be a couple of seconds before you can play the video and from there you can basically "stream" the rest as it finishes downloading...

I guess on an absolute technical basis there is technically a difference, the x-box download is in fact saveing the file to disk (permentantly) and you're just playing the video off of the downloaded portion while the download continues... That's not a stream in the purest sense, but then again to some extend basically all "video streaming" techs work basically the same way (except buffers aren't always permenantly stored).

[tonyb]

Phew, i was feeling guilty because i downloaded* a few rentals for my new iphone and was thinking, 'when do i have to hand in my blu ray players and discs'. As the D advocates make out; if you rent a movie digitally you've got to get rid of any physical media

*(i had tried to rent from the 360 store over christmas but was told that xbox360 pros are incompatible with the movie downloads, it was when the service crashed for a few days, so its not my first attempted dalliance with digital)

[crazzeto]

Originally Posted by tonyb

Phew, i was feeling guilty because i downloaded* a few rentals for my new iphone and was thinking, 'when do i have to hand in my blu ray players and discs'. As the D advocates make out; if you rent a movie digitally you've got to get rid of any physical media

*(i had tried to rent from the 360 store over christmas but was told that xbox360 pros are incompatible with the movie downloads, it was when the service crashed for a few days, so its not my first attempted dalliance with digital)

Besides the likes of a handful of posters who are clearly just anti-bluray who said renting out DD's means you have to stop buying bluray's?

[jason_grumpy]

Originally Posted by xboxboi

and oh, digital ill break optical. the clock is ticking! older generation who do not rat about technology and want movies to be one communication are either slowing dieing of old age where the new kids born are more affluent with technology

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh man, that statement delivers.

You obviously don't work in IT do you, taking phone calls from ALL age groups including the so called technologically affluent generation.

In my own dealings with my field, most of the population in the United States are CLUELESS about technology from all age groups. Seriously only some of them are able to turn on a computer. First time they run into problems? Panic, Dismay, Anxiety, followed by a call to IT or their favorite geek. If none are available, they simply stop using it.

I sometimes wonder how these people can even turn on a computer. It's that bad. Want to take a guess how many people call after a power outage in the office complaining their PC turned off and they don't know how to get the monitor turned back on? For a broader example, have you ever listened to some of the questions Leo LaPort gets on his Tech Show (am radio)? Listen once, and tell me just how technically understanding the general populous is again.

The commercials of grandpa watching a streaming video on his laptop from netflix are MYTHICAL advertisements. In reality, my grandma complains constantly that she can't connect to the internet -- when she has DSL that's always connected. I've tried to explain this to her for 4 years, to no avail. She doesn't understand it. The only thing she uses it for is email, and even that was difficult to explain. My Grandpa? The only computer he uses is a gambling machine at casinos that has 4 choices. Lines, Bet, Spin and Cash out. Other than that? He's to busy watching Walker, Texas Ranger on the hallmark channel and has no interest in such technology.

My parents age group? They love the HDTV over SD, and Blu-Ray as well. But internets, downloading, or the like requires constant hand holding. Firmware updates generate more questions than answers. They like movies and high quality sound, but computing? They don't even understand the concept of Folder Tree's, and firmware sounds like a scifi flick out the 70's to them.

Now my younger cousins who fall well within your optimal age group? Technologically DEPENDENT but certainly not savvy. They are dependent on things such as MySpace, FaceBook, or YouTube for social interaction. It's no mystery to me why those places are so popular. It replaced the text based driven social interaction during my time, and that was 12 Line "chat" BBS/NewsGroups/IRC, which was then replaced by ICQ/AIM/Yahoo/Online Player Games and now those are replaced by MySpace/YouTube/MMO's/Forums. Even this forum is an example of social interaction. If you want to come up with the next big thing on the Internet, make something with Social Interaction on a large scale that is better than what the rest offers. Why do you think Sony is pushing Home so much?

Even more so, those with the bandwidth required for Digital Downloads are just as smart enough to spend the same time downloading it -- using whatever methods for free somewhere else. The rest could care less -- just as long as their webpages load fast.

And I'll toss out the big giant monkey on everyones back over DD. If Digital Downloads are to work as a replacement to physical media and turn profit, then the complete eradication of movie piracy on the net MUST be done first. Want to guess how long before that happens? Give you a hint, I'll be dead and pushing up daisies 40 years from now before they even come close.

Now on to the meaty substance. Even talking to that technical generation about bandwidth you still get a blank stare -- as if i were speaking some ancient language. You are operating from the false assumption that the younger generation understands computing in greater numbers along with greater enthusiasm. Including all it's troubleshooting, specifications, etc. more than other generations. They don't.

There's a reason why my department has older IT Technicians (an entry level position) than the younger people. Yes, I interview them, and yes, I've been unimpressed with the so called tech generation. It amazes me that some even applied with the lack of knowledge -- unable to troubleshoot the most basic tasks such as a SATA or IDE cable unplugged from the MB with the BIOS basically telling you it's not plugged in. Older generations giving a rat about technology my rear end.

It's the same type of situation that it was 10 years ago, a very small few actually care and understand the technology while the rest try to pretend they do. When put to pasture doing a simple hardware test, 99.9% of them fail.

Perhaps you should take a gander on all the websites for support for the Xbox and PS3, and see all the topic started about simple stuff like DNS configuration, or IP renewal, and general 'computer' troubleshooting. These aren't just the older generation posting it either, these are all part of your optimal group.

I help my cousins more often than not because really they have no clue. They know Buzz Words, and use their computers for social networking or games. How many Kids do you know could answer what's the difference between Class A / B / C / D IP's? And that's basic networking 101. How about running their own Cat5e line to their TV area or setting up a wireless bridge? How about building their own computer? I seem to be the only one in the neighborhood that can do so and theres more than enough teenagers on my block. The rest buy it from Dell or get hand-me downs, or I get asked by that 'technology' generation to build one for them.

Seriously man, get a reality check. We can't even get VIDEO Phones while talking to each other over the telephone -- technology that could have been implemented 10 years ago being using FAR less bandwidth to the general populous, even though it was part of the "Space Age" movies of the 1960's and Cartoon's such as the Jetsons.

That said being technological generation is only 'savvy' when it comes to social interaction. Places like Forums, MySpace, YouTube, etc replaced meeting people in real life interaction areas such as parks, bowling, skating, bars, arcades, work, etc. It's all safely confined to the home, where you behind your screen can pretend to be anything. I can have a network of friends, all online, and if ones pretty enough, I can go meet them in real life! yay!

To drive a big nail into this whole argument -- Already employers have been complaining because the new workforce entering from 'that' generation, lacks basic skills and more so advanced technological skills -- coupled with the fact that their social skills suck I don't see a reason for such optimism. They can't even count the change back from a $20 if their register goes down.

Those that are technically savvy now, already know the limitations of said technology, and I also know which way the wind is blowing in regards to unlimited Internet bandwidth -- that's going the way of the Dodo. When metered access really starts showing up in the majority of ISP's, kiss any bandwidth hogging technology goodbye including the beloved Digital Downloads.

In short, fast paced technology and baring with ALL it's shortcomings requires a LOVE for technology, a VERY large wallet, and a desire to use said product out of that love. Tech geeks love their technology, but this is a VERY small segment of ALL age groups. The majority of the population including your optimal generation considers such technology toys, and unnecessary in life. Even I who love technology find somethings wasteful, or redundant, or useless. Digital Downloads for movies are certainly one of them with all the restrictions and time consumed downloading said movie. Again, if you want the next big thing -- it's all about the social networking with new fresh ideas. Movies 2 hours long that are unchanging do not cut it.

[MrAngles]

Originally Posted by crazzeto

Except that with higher end connections, you can basically stream X-Box downloads in HD with just a couple of seconds of buffering already. It's a bit a of a digital downloads grey area, what for some might be 10/15min before you can even play the video, for others might be a couple of seconds before you can play the video and from there you can basically "stream" the rest as it finishes downloading...

I guess on an absolute technical basis there is technically a difference, the x-box download is in fact saveing the file to disk (permentantly) and you're just playing the video off of the downloaded portion while the download continues... That's not a stream in the purest sense, but then again to some extend basically all "video streaming" techs work basically the same way (except buffers aren't always permenantly stored).

I did not realize that. Either the PSN or my 6 mbps comcast service must be too slow for that though because I can't even download movie trailers fast enough to watch them while downloading.

[neone]

Originally Posted by MrAngles

I did not realize that. Either the PSN or my 6 mbps comcast service must be too slow for that though because I can't even download movie trailers fast enough to watch them while downloading.

There's a lot of misconception about actual internet throughput into the home compared to theoretical marketing numbers. Most quoted numbers by the ISP are not achievable in real life.

If you're curious about your actual throughput for internet traffic. This is the site that provides a quick test.

http://www.speedtest.net/

Note that they have a large database of statistics of observed results, but you may want to measure it at different times to get a good feel of how fast you can connect to a major site throughout the day.

You can't really stream HD video real time with just 15 minute buffering unless the whole video is only 20 minutes long.

[crazzeto]

Originally Posted by neone

There's a lot of misconception about actual internet throughput into the home compared to theoretical marketing numbers. Most quoted numbers by the ISP are not achievable in real life.

If you're curious about your actual throughput for internet traffic. This is the site that provides a quick test.

http://www.speedtest.net/

Note that they have a large database of statistics of observed results, but you may want to measure it at different times to get a good feel of how fast you can connect to a major site throughout the day.

You can't really stream HD video real time with just 15 minute buffering unless the whole video is only 20 minutes long.

And at the same time, if you have a higher end FiOS connection (for instance) you're going to be in a pretty good place as far as digital downloads are concerned.

[MrAngles]

I'm getting Fios at my new place next month, I'm pretty stoked, particularly about the upload spead increase, but also for the reliability. Comcast has proven to be very uneven for me, particularly in the past few years, very problematic for me as a Vonage customer.

[neone]

Originally Posted by crazzeto

And at the same time, if you have a higher end FiOS connection (for instance) you're going to be in a pretty good place as far as digital downloads are concerned.

If you do have FiOS, then you should run the speedtest measurement at a few times of the day, for example, after dinner, early in the morning, midnight, weekends to get a feel for how fast your actual throughput is.

Some of the bottleneck limitations are at the backbone, not just the last mile into the home, with the last mile to the home, you could conceivably mirror the video content thousands of times to service each neighborhood of 100-250 providers and you can avoid the backbone problems, but you cannot centralize the video and hope to build a business out of that --- unless you're talking extremely low resolution and low bitrate video.