Do we really want Blu-ray to win?

[rodz_92]

I dont particulary mind sony there products are great and they last for a while, i also quite like microsoft a bit more then sony however and purchased a xbox 360 with the HD DVD drive, now i go into stores to purchase discs and everywhere in england appears to be crazed on bluray only one store offers HD DVD which is HMV, everywhere else is blu ray even tesco (the equivalent of americas Best Buy) are selling bluray, for europe it looks like a blu ray world

[Diesmos]

NOt tech- electronic company

BLu-ray have other companys involve too(samsung, LG, etc) - The biggest is the studio support my man

Well, LG has already made a dual format player, Blu. And while it's somewhat of a crap player that's way overpriced at $1,200 MSRP, it's certainly a start, albeit a tentative one. Similarly, Samsung is *expected* to soon jump into the fray as well (though this could be in the vein of the BB rumor mill).

[rmslives]

G I Jane isn't a good example to demonstrate this point as the DVD version is deviod of extras too.

Recent blu-ray releases have had the extra count upped with Sony leading the way. The specs for Layer Cake, Hellboy etc are all well padded with supplements.

Any high def version should offer more than the SDVD version, IMO.

And Eragon is a recent release, right?

I know it goes by studios. I'm just saying I'm surprised more people are not more offended. I hear a lot more "Ah, it's okay; I don't really want extras" as replies. I guess some people cannot admit ANY faults of their preferred format, but to me a format that is trying to convince people to stop buying DVD needs to deliver MORE than SDVD can deliver, and not just in the PQ and AQ department.

[CPBuff22]

CBUFFet - Wow Dude, you have alot of time in your hands-^ - but still does not make sense(IMHO)

CBUFFet? Where I dont see Jimmy Buffet! ok but on to matters at hand...

I dont particulary mind sony there products are great and they last for a while, i also quite like microsoft a bit more then sony however and purchased a xbox 360 with the HD DVD drive, now i go into stores to purchase discs and everywhere in england appears to be crazed on bluray only one store offers HD DVD which is HMV, everywhere else is blu ray even tesco (the equivalent of americas Best Buy) are selling bluray, for europe it looks like a blu ray world

The Blu-ray surge in Europe can be explained by the HUGE PS3 launch. HD DVD was doing quite well in Europe before that so I would expect to see a prety even amout of each format in the upcoming months. So dont fret.

[polyh3dron]

I hate DRM and despise the companies who try to sell you something with "limited use"

BD+ is one of those things.

On top of that the fact that Sony is trying to force their format on the market. Just shady buisness tactics.

For people that said PS2 is what made DVD popular, thats garbage. DVD was already gaining popularity before PS2 and it would've done just fine without it.

Will BD+ stop you from putting the disc in your BD player and watching the movie? No. So what's the problem, that BD+ will stop you from copying movies? The AACS was supposed to have done that in the first place.

[rmslives]

You're right - those extras on King Kong were amazing weren't they?

As usual, you have the ability to focus on one HD title but ignore what you know is the truth, since a lot of other BD fans have owned up to it: some BD studios are totally neglecting any worthwhile extras.

So yay for you! You can list an HD title with skimpy extras. Why is it so hard to say, "Yeah, some of the studios have stiffed us on extras"? Is it really that hard to admit when your format of choice could do something better? I have been quick to discuss HD's weaknesses - it's kind of disappointing that instead of agreeing I have a good point, you find ONE HD title to make a sarcastic response about.

[AV_Integrated]

OK I am not going to quote every one because I dont have that much time.

It would sure help if you showed you were responding to something instead of just rambling on in a very anti-Sony way...

1. Do I trust Sony. NO WAY! How can you trust a company who put software on their compatct disks that caused malfunction in your PC's Regestry and opend your fire wall to virises and add ware? Plus the why they handled the laser issues in the PS2 was horrible and left alot of loyal PS2 ownere out in the cold.

Sony is a huge company so what their music divsion did, which was wrong, is something you and other Sony haters glom onto as if it is the entire reason the company exists - to break your computer. Tell me, that wasn't a M$ comuter operating system was it? And how are those X360s holding up for consumers? I have heard from more than a few very loyal X360 fans who have busted more than one system with normal use. Seems that every player has their own line of 'horrible' they put out.

2. HD DVD/DVD Combo. This was a good idea by HD DVD, even if its a little too high priced right now. They are taking advantage of the HUGE install base of the DVD. I have six DVD players in my house and one in my car but I only have one HD DVD player. Buying an HD DVD/DVD combo disk means that no matter what room I am in (or car) that I can still watch my movie. This is even more important when it comes to movies like Happy Feet. I dont know how meny parents are going to buy a HD TV and HD Player (HD DVD or Blu-ray) for their childrens bedroom.

It's great - if it is a choice. But, they aren't giving anyone a choice on the HD DVD side. They are forcing the extra cost onto all consumers. I personally backup my DVDs to a hard drive for transportability and then store the originals in a changer for safe keeping. My HD movies I want to keep away from damaging situations. Yay, you spent $30 and... dang, now it got a scratch because you moved it all over the place. For those not as excited as you, it's just added cost to their purchase.

3. Toshiba repairs. Well when you make a superior product that doesnt tend to break then you go lax on you repair department... then if a defective system is released you have to scramble to fix it. That is the reason for Toshibas lack of repaired systems. I have a First Gen Toshiba DVD player that cost me $400 dollars when purchased back in 1998. That same player (used daily) is now in my sons bedroom. Nine years later and it still preforms like a champ. I have however went through two Sony CD Players and a Sony DVD Player in the last five years. Toshiba does equal quality.

So you bought a $400 Sony DVD player?
Some people have first generation Sony DVD players and still use them. My Sony DVD player is about 5 years old... my Sony VCR is about 14 years old. My POS Apex DVD player is 4 years old... My RCA TV is 13 years old. You know, sometimes stuff lasts a long time, and sometimes it doesn't. It often depends on the end user and luck, not just the product being purchased.

4. Sony Forcing People. Sony forced the consumer into Blu-ray with the PS3 and we all see how they are currently stacking up to the Xbox 360 and Nintendo Wii (the only NON HI Def system out). The consumer doesn't like to be forced that is why Comp USA and Circuit Citys around the nation are being closed. No one likes to be followed around and told what to buy. Sony is trying this with Blu-ray and like every thing else people are shying away from it. Total sales for HD Movies only account for 10% of movie sales in the United States. This number would be higher if their were not two compeating formats and if Sony were not making the consumer feel like they were being forced into the HD era.

Sony 'forced' nothing. They include it. Wii forces people to use their non standard format. They force people to use cartridges with Gameboy. Sony forces UMD with PSP. It's a very short sighted line. The potential is there to utilize Blu-ray within gaming and really have it as a format for years to come. I agree it is more than PS3 needs, but in a couple of years the cost to add HD to video games may be just a few dollars... and neither Nintendo nor M$ will be able to offer it as a native function that developers can use fully.

5. Changing Technology. For years people have been upset about how when you buy a computer a few months later their is already a better PC avalible. Well now Sony has brought that same problem to Blu-ray. How meny uninformed consumers who purchased a first gen Blu-ray player will feel screwed when they realize that the BD Java will not play on their couple month old player? Upgrades in technology are good but not at the cost of the consumer. Microsoft is also making this mistake with the XBOX Elite (among some others related to HDMI).

Have you read how many people have posted about HD51 discs? Do you think those are going to be compatible with first... or second generation HD DVD players? I don't think it will bug ANYONE who owns a PS3 if BD-J isn't fully featured on their system. Because PS3 is so much more than just HD movies. Every HD DVD owner who has similar issues due to the HD DVD specification not being finalized is out the price of a full player in their need for an upgrade.

6. Sony Fan Boys will say ANYTHING! This has been proven time and time again. I have a friend who is a TOTAL Sony Fanboy. He wont buy Blu-ray or PS3 because he says they are too expensive but he still goes on forums and bashes Microsoft and Toshiba. He tells me that Blu-ray and PS3 will win the war and that Microsoft and HD DVD are living on borrowed time. Yet this same person is still playing his PS2 and Original XBOX. He had no complaints about Nintendo until the Wii out sold the PS3 and then he started with how childish the Wii was and how they stole the idea for the motion sencor from Sony (he got it backwards).

Good to know your friend speaks for the rest of the universe.
I believe it was Amir (M$) who said: "BD50 discs are a myth, they will not be out this year (2006) and when they do come out they will be prohibitively expensive." This is the type of stuff that is stated by HD DVD's official shills, yet some random consumer spouts their opinion and you call it gospel for all?

7. Sales Numbers. They say Blu-Ray is selling 3:1 over HD DVD. Well when you release 10 new releases to 1 HD DVD new release you should technicly be able to sell 10:1. So it shows people are still jumping in on HD DVDs side of things and picking up older titles. This is not a sign of the end of the format war like Sony stated.

When you say "THEY SAY" what you really mean is that "NIELSEN STATES..." and the number right now is closer to 4 to 1. But, look at the number of titles on the street right now and Blu-ray is barely ahead of HD DVD, yet the inception to date numbers are pulling firmly away from HD DVD. No, studios care a lot more about how well things are selling, not how you can manipulate numbers to make things look bad for Blu-ray.

8. Sony are a buch of blohards. This is a fact. They criticized Xbox about having a hard drive built in and then did the same thing with PS3. They critized Xbox about Xbox live and are now trying to do the same thing with the PS3 (and failing miserably). They Criticized Nintendo about motion controllers and then did the same thing. They said Rumble was "last gen technology" but now are going to include it in new controllers. They criticized HD DVD for the PIP features on the HD DVD disks yet now BD Java is coming out. When your Sony every one else is wrong and your right.... and then you steal their ideas.

Yes, they are. So what? Ever hear some of the stuff that comes from M$? Toshiba, of course, nobody says much about because Toshiba is a blip on the map of CE.

9. Sony Products. Don't get me wrong Sony does put out some decent products. I have a Sony digital camera that I love. And Sony TV's are very nice. It is their lack of business ethics that I dispise about the company. I do not like to be lied to. I understand when an corperate exec. says some thing they may be uninformed and can live with that fact. But to come out and blaitantly lie about your technology or you speriority in a market that is not yet desided is unforgivable.

So point 8 has had such an impact on your life that you decided to repeat it again as point 9. Do you stay up at night looking for Sony press releases and information just so you can scoff at it? I personally just read reviews of their products and see how they stack up against the competition, then I buy the best value for the money - Sony or other.

10. Blu-ray is more than just Sony. Yes it is but Sony owns the copyrights to the technology. Thats the whole reason for this war. They want the extra incentives given by studios to put their movies out on format. Toshiba has made those moneys for the last ten years and Sony wants to get their greedy hands on it. Now I am not saying that Toshiba or Microsoft are not greedy. But I will say that Toshiba is trying to hang on to the income they are already making while Sony is trying to steal it away from them. Its like compairing a Single Dad working two jobs trying to make ends meet to a the owner of the company the man works for who just cut his wages so that he can fatten his already fat pockets.

Toshiba has been making money on HD DVD for the past ten years? Oh pleeeeease... will you give me the link that supports this?

Oh, wait. You mean Toshiba has been doing it with DVD for years and now wants to continue on with HD. So, they changed the rules to push their proprietary format on the DVD Forum and then, with no other CE support, have gone it alone making players well after the BDA was established and the entire CE industry had committed to Blu-ray. Sure, you keep saying it was Sony who was responsible for the war... Sony.... and Panasonic... and Samsung... and Phillips.... and Pioneer... and Sharp. Toshiba is going against CE manufacturers in general, which is their right, but hardly points to Sony being the one who is dissenting.

Interesting comments, but typically slanted towards your format of choice. Also, no real substance. Why would any of this have to do with Blu-ray not winning? It's all about why you hate Sony. Great.

[BIGGY]

While I'm neutral on the formats, I do have some bad feelings towards Sony. If you were to put a gun to my head and say "choose" I would support HD DVD. Not because I think it's superior or can even tell a difference. But because Sony, knowingly and willingly gave us some tasty root kits. It was brought to their attention before they were released and they continued...it was brought up after the problem was on the market and they denied it for a while. And what's the fix? You get to exchange your disc for free...doesn't matter if your computer was damaged, that's just details. The very fact that this was snuck on to people's machines for deliberate purposes with the developers and others knowing full well that it was not only unethical, but could lead to severe problems is what gets me. I know it's a different division of Sony, and I do realize that MS is no sweet angel either...but the Sony thing was just insane.

And that's what doesn't make sense to me from BR fans (examples could be made for HD DVD too, but as an example I'm using BR). Here we are...many of us techies, many of us HD fans, and a number of BR supporters. You support BR blindly without looking at any history, it's a very self centered view point with blinders on to see how you've been manipulated before. How many PS3 owners even realize that Sony's focus was pushing BR with the launch of that console and not the interest in the gamers that once was. How come no one is outraged by it? And the fans of the PS3? They cheer for BR to win of course so that their purchase is justified. Again I'll state that if BR wins, then I'll happily purchase a BR player since there's no other choice...but till then I'm not cheering for either side because in the end it ultimately makes no difference to any of us. At this point we're all reduced to saying "BR is 0.03% ahead in this area or that one." MOST of the fanboys here have very very poor reasons for supporting one side or the other, stemming from the newbie users all the way up to the mods.

[BIGGY]

Sony is a huge company so what their music divsion did, which was wrong, is something you and other Sony haters glom onto as if it is the entire reason the company exists - to break your computer. Tell me, that wasn't a M$ comuter operating system was it? And how are those X360s holding up for consumers? I have heard from more than a few very loyal X360 fans who have busted more than one system with normal use. Seems that every player has their own line of 'horrible' they put out.

There's a wee difference between having to send in your 360 for repairs or exchanging it vs the possibility of your computer being destroyed. Hmm, let's think which one is a bit more serious.

And there's nothing wrong with making a mistake as a company. It's how you handle it that determines how consumers feel. A friend of mine rides a Kawasaki ZX-10 motorcycle. Well the first year models had a problem with the frames cracking and a few owners reported this problem. Kawasaki responded with a proactive recall on the frames in exchange for a totally new one before it became a more serious problem. Around the same time there was an incident with Yamaha motorcycles on their R1 models which thousands of owners claimed the engine would sometimes randomly cut out while they were riding...normally ok, but this caused a number of accidents when some of the riders were taking a corner. I called Yamaha (was in the market at that time for a new bike), and they denied that any such problem existed even though I'd been hearing about it for at least 6 months. To this day they have not acknowledged that any problems exists regardless of the thousands of cases.

And that's your difference in companies. Like I said...mistakes happen, it's simply how you handle them. I know it's all about profits and calculations...but at some point it's gotta be about the consumer, which at this point is the last person that Sony seems to care about. Unless you're going to tell me that with their other proprietary formats like memory cards they are somehow thinking of us and doing us a favor? Get real.

[zombieflanders]

Microsoft willingly gave us a gazillion security flaws, requires you to "activate" your computer when you change hardware, and buy a new OS when you replace your motherboard. They're a huge part of HD DVD, yet they get a pass where Sony doesn't?

[Wretched]

its not just a matter of blu ray winning-its a matter of someone winning, regardless of who it is. As long as two formats exist, it will be seen as an unsafe investment by many to jump into the high def era. Competition is always good, but in this case, its also very dangerous...especially considering the fact that, to the ignorant consumer, both HD-DVD and Blu ray look nearly identical. One must win, and it would seem to me that Blu ray is in a better position to do so, as of now. Both formats fighting for years on end brings risk of the industry skipping right over both and going straight for digital distribution. Both will lose.

[Kid Banana]

Any high def version should offer more than the SDVD version, IMO.

And Eragon is a recent release, right?

I know it goes by studios. I'm just saying I'm surprised more people are not more offended. I hear a lot more "Ah, it's okay; I don't really want extras" as replies. I guess some people cannot admit ANY faults of their preferred format, but to me a format that is trying to convince people to stop buying DVD needs to deliver MORE than SDVD can deliver, and not just in the PQ and AQ department.

Hey, I agree with you that we should get supplements.

What I disagree with is that feature-packed releases are somehow mandatory for HD DVD. As you say, it's a studio policy. If Fox released on HD DVD you would get the same slim pickings extras-wise.

It's important to separate the studio from the format in this instance. I have yet to buy a Fox blu-ray title, they are overpriced and under-nourished with supplements. And they also enforce region coding, which, as a European, I oppose.

[rmslives]

Hey, I agree with you that we shpuld get supplements.

What I disagree with is that feature-packed releases are somehow mandatory for HD DVD. As you say, it's a studio policy. If Fox released on HD DVD you would get the same slim pickings extras-wise.

You're right - 100%. If HD studios were being lame in this regard, I would be pissed. I'm a bit pissed that I cannot get more TrueHD tracks on HD. And again, that's a studio decision.

If you're going to boast more space for things like more extras, though: deliver the goods. More BD studios need to do that than HD ones right now, IMO.

[BIGGY]

Microsoft willingly gave us a gazillion security flaws, requires you to "activate" your computer when you change hardware, and buy a new OS when you replace your motherboard. They're a huge part of HD DVD, yet they get a pass where Sony doesn't?

I'm not sure how intentional those security flaws are...some folks work pretty hard to find those holes. And MS doesn't get a pass either way. Tell me that there's an alternative OS out there that can battle their monopoly and you can bet that they'll become better. But what can I do...setup OSX in my dads office? Pfft, yea right. But your points are still somewhat valid which is part of the reason I'm not in a hurry to cheer HD DVD on either. The ideal would be that both formats remain and that players simply support both. Why does the format war have to be between us? Let the companies fight, and keep fighting in hope of us getting some benefit out of it.

[VT JJR]

Any high def version should offer more than the SDVD version, IMO.

And Eragon is a recent release, right?

I know it goes by studios. I'm just saying I'm surprised more people are not more offended. I hear a lot more "Ah, it's okay; I don't really want extras" as replies. I guess some people cannot admit ANY faults of their preferred format, but to me a format that is trying to convince people to stop buying DVD needs to deliver MORE than SDVD can deliver, and not just in the PQ and AQ department.

I'm sure you're right that the people that DO want extras are pissed off. But, IMO, the extras are not the driving force for the new format, it's the quality titles, PQ, multiple audio tracks (LPCM, Dolby TruHD, DD, DTS, etc) and then maybe, and that's a big maybe, the extras.

This may not be true for a lot of you, but I barely have enough time to watch a movie in it's entirety. I can't name one DVD or Blu-ray that I have watched any extra content on. Although, after playing with the new sort feature in the reviews section, I see that Crank is ranked highest for HD Exclusives. Hopefully, if I can find some time I'll check that out and it may change my whole opinion on the extras. Until then, just give me my movie with a reference quality transfer and lossless audio and I will be happy.