Thread: 5 to 1 attach rate
03-22-2007 02:12 AM #1
5 to 1 attach rate
So, can someone clarify this for me...
Is the 5 to 1 attach rate Ken Graffeo is touting for HD DVD because of the 5 free movies with each new Toshiba sold?
Please, just an unbiased truthful answer with no spin (hahaha or the closest thing to the truth would suffice).
This format war sucks. I love HD movies, and as a consumer, I should not be subjected to choosing a side.
03-22-2007 07:07 AM #2
He counts all Playstation 3 as Blu-ray players and rightfully so and the Playstation 3 has a lower attach rate because not everybody uses it as a movie player yet or buy less movies than the early adopter that have bought stand alone units.
He do not count the PS3 or any Blu-ray rom/burner then he tries to brag about how many players HD-DVD got compared to Blu-ray even if the stand alone units sell even. Here he is not so right.
The attach rate does not mean anything because it is the real sales numbers that count and brings in money to the film studios and those numbers are way bigger for Blu-ray. The attach rate is not something built into the HD DVD format specifications but comes with early adopters and the fact that all new formats have higher attach rate in the beginning. They have been bragging about the high annual attach rate of 28 movies per player since fall and have not changed that number even if HD DVD not seams to sell much more even if the user base have increased. Their annual attach rate is not 28 movies any more. Partly because they got some more main stream users from the Xbox360 add-on.
03-22-2007 07:17 AM #3
In San Diego this month the last numbers quoted for people that bought PS3's & actually bought a PS3 was 22%.
That's where the 5:1 number came from.
For every 5 PS3's sold 1 blu-ray movie was sold.
Putting a HD formate into a gaming console is a good smokescreen for the number of Blu-ray players sold. The PS3 happens to be a gaming console that plays Blu-ray movies.
HD DVD has gone the route most home theater people go with standalones so you know when you actually buy the player you will be buying HD movies. It's a more accurate number.
If you're playing the numbers game to impress people or sway them the gaming console would be better because only 22% of them are playing Blu-ray movies but going off of the total number sold makes it sound more convincable.
03-23-2007 05:11 AM #4
My brother and I already bought a PS3 and I'm enjoying it's BD playback on our 60" SRDXBR2 and can say it's awesome.
I also have a PC hooked up to our TV and will eventually buy the 360 add-on when they have a price drop as there are some titles on HD DVD that I want (King Kong was the first HD movie I saw on display and it had the most beautiful picture I have seen so far).
I don't have issues being an early adopter (those who gripe usually can only afford one format or is boycotting Sony) and will eventually buy a stand alone BD player.
Once again, my thanks, for clearing that up.
03-23-2007 07:10 AM #5
Cool. You must be 1 of the 22%. I have a Panasonic Blu-ray player hooked up to a 65" Pioneer Elite T.V. I enjoy it also.
I also have a Toshiba HD DVD player.
It's cool to watch a movie not having to worry about what format it's coming out in.
When you get the 360 add on you'll be a happy camper too.
It's cool to enjoy HD movies regardless of format. You'll really enjoy "King Kong", the "Matrix Trilogy" & "Batman Begins". Universal will be releasing the "American Pie Series" before Christmas also along with some other big titles they are keeping quiet on right now.
I have a feeling the "Harry Potter" series will be HD DVD only for awhile also. The transfers are already done.
Last edited by marine92104; 03-23-2007 at 07:13 AM.
03-23-2007 07:13 AM #6Member
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
This is where the 5:1 originally comes from:
On February 23rd Paul Sweeting said:
If you look at lifetime data of the two formats, total software sales are about even, while BD has nearly a 5-to-1 lead in the installed hardware base if you include PS3 consoles. That suggests the overall attach rate of discs per player is far lower for Blu-ray than for HD DVD.
So, 5:1 is PS3 + Blu-ray standalones Vs. Xbox add-on + HD DVD standalones. Sweeting rightly says the movie attach rate for Blu-ray is lower but he gives no numbers.
Ken (and many HD DVD fans) simply say if it's 5:1 in players shouldn't it be 5:1 in movie sales? It would be nice, but it's a bit more complicated than that.
So, there is no such thing as a 5:1 HD movie attach rate! It's just BD players Vs. HD DVD players.
If, currently, a HD DVD buyer were actually to consistently buy 5 times more discs than a Blu-ray buyer then weekly sales would be about even, yes? According to Nielsen VideoScan the year-to-date sales ratio is in fact 68% Blu-ray and 32% HD DVD - that's more than 2:1 for Blu-ray.
Using lifetime sales figures is wrong (but HD DVD fans use it anyway) because the 5:1 player ratio did not exist until the end of January 07! At the end of December it was approx. 4:1 (first big month for PS3) and at the end of November 06 it would have been approx. 2:1 for Blu-ray (early PS3 sales having an impact).
The only meaningful figures, so far, that show the full the effect of a 5:1 player ratio are those for February 2007.
Consumers bought around 250,000 units of Blu-ray movies during the month, compared to the estimated 125,000 units of HD DVD movies, according to industry sources.
Hope that hasn't confused you again!
03-23-2007 07:24 AM #7
Hasn't confused me at all. Just take the number of players sold by the number of movies sold.
Or buy both formats like me & don't worry about which format a movie is released on.
He also said:
PS3 sales have been slowed by (BD-induced) production delays, of course, which, presumably will be resolved. But I don’t see why that should bring any comfort to BD supporters.
For PS3 to be a decisive factor in the high-def format war, it first has to succeed in the game-console wars, and right now, it is not.Studios released about twice as many movies on Blu-ray during January and February, Graffeo and others noted. HD DVD studios will be releasing more movies in coming months, about equal to the number their Blu-ray counterparts are putting out.
During the first half of the year, Blu-ray studios are planning to release 265 movies on the format, while HD DVD studios have 257 movies planned for release.
“You can’t look at the last two months as a trend or as what the consumer wants to do in this format,” Graffeo said. “It’s really an artificial, short time period.”
Graffeo said Blu-ray numbers also are getting a boost from two-for-one specials offered by retailers and Blu-ray studios and noted that Amazon has halved the price of Blu-ray movies.
Releasing a format on a gaming console is a good smokescreen for actual number of players sold. Sony isn't dumb. It just is a good way not to know how many gaming consoles is used for playing movies.
What's so hard to understand about that. Casino Royale was a good Blockbuster title. HD DVD has had alot of those. I buy what titles I want on both formats. I go for the best audio & PQ per title. If Warner releases Dolby True HD on HD DVD like "Happy Feet" next week I'll be it in HD DVD. I don't want Dolby Digital on Blu-ray. If Paramount releases a title I always buy it on HD DVD. I don't half the sound at 640 kbps on Blu-ray & 1.5M sound on HD DVD. I have a sound system capable of hearing the difference.
I, like Vivian can't understand why you would want to put a gaming console to watch movies in a home theater. That's why I went with standalones. And if you think all PS3's are being used as movie players I would be totally surprised at that.
Most of the titles released the 1st of the year were catalog titles. HD DVD had a years head start on you for that. I watched all 5 movies released on Blu-ray this week. Only 1 had the quality I consistently see on HD DVD & it was AVC encoded. I have 2 roommates. Both of them commented that the grain of the pictures really took away from the picture itself & made it hard to watch.
I'm not a Sony sheep that will jump over the fence when they say the format war is over.........I do my own leg work. I watch each title & make my own decisions. I don't let Sony make them for me or a studio to make them for me.
Last edited by marine92104; 03-23-2007 at 07:30 AM.
03-23-2007 07:48 AM #8Member
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
We weren't talking about sales trends or why BD is selling better. The OP wants to know the origin and meaning of the 5:1 ratio. I explained it pretty clearly I thought. I repeat, 5:1 refers to hardware NOT software sales.
If you can post me some other links that mention the 5:1 ratio (like I did) then we can compare notes. The quotes in your post were OT and so was the rest of your post
I still think you were confused, but no worries, it happens to the best of us.
I'll be waiting for your 5:1 links - don't you forget now!
03-23-2007 07:53 AM #9Member
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
I got a PS3 4 games and 2 movies...
woohoo iam helping kill hddvd
03-23-2007 08:29 AM #10
If you were at the forum we might have seen each other. Of course I don't know what you look like.
I happen to live in San Diego & heard the figures while there. Sorry I don't have anything from it to show you. It was just mentioned in one of the talks.
I did read the article you linked also though.
03-23-2007 08:48 AM #11
5:1 attach rate is a joke. Attach rates are supposed to be annualized based upon currently players on the market. It is a scam you see... If I put out ONE mega hd player - and put out 20 movies, and sold all 20 of those movies to one person, then I have a 20:1 attach rate! I would be kicking the crap out of both formats... right?
Of course not!
The numbers is the only thing that matters and the timeline you put those numbers on. Up through the end of November last year HD DVD was cleaning Blu-ray's clock with sales. Consistently outselling Blu-ray at 3:1 levels. They touted sales, they touted attach rates, they touted everything as proof that Blu-ray was dead - and a fair number of HD DVD owners agreed with those statements, or made them.
In 3 months Blu-ray has changed it from a 3:1 defecit to a 2:1 lead and has evened up inception to date sales - despite Blu-ray being released a few months after HD DVD was released.
Now, the question of PS3 as a player or not is simply retarded. Fanbois want to make a claim of it being 100% a player or 100% not a player. It's clearly somewhere between. Some people will never buy any discs for PS3 - ever. Other people may only buy 1 or 2 discs over the lifetime of the console. Other people may buy 20 or 30 discs this year. But, it would be like including PS2 in the numbers of DVD players out there and including them in the attach rates of DVD. It simply isn't appropriate to do a 100% inclusion.
So what is the accurate attach rate for Blu-ray?
Other than marketing your format, who gives a damn whether or not HD DVD or Blu-ray has 5 to 1 or 20 to 1 attach rates. What matters is actual sales. Right now, Blu-ray is up on the weekly/monthly level at 2:1 and since inception is a bit ahead. But, HD disc sales tend to be increasing across the board which means that the earliest numbers will become less and less significant.
Consider: In Feb. about 250K Blu-ray movies were sold.
In the first week of release - 100K copies of Casino Royale were sold.
It is possible that Casino Royale, by itself, could match the entire February Blu-ray sales.
I'm not sure if European numbers are included in sales as well, or if we are just talking about US/North America sales.
But, 5:1 attach rate is a piece of marketing garbage that anyone with half a brain can see through in just two seconds. Any fanboi using such a figure - ever - when discussing the 'positives' of HD DVD should really be ashamed.
03-23-2007 09:13 AM #12Panasonic PT-AE1000U 1080p LCD Projector
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