Cheap HD DVD players not all good

[whoelse]

Cheap HD DVD players may sound like a good thing, and overall they probably are but Toshiba are losing money from every HD DVD player sold due to the real low prices. Therefore, all the other HD DVD player manufacturers must lower their prices to sell any more of their players. So what can they do? The only real option is to drop the format, meaning Toshiba becomes the sole producer of HD DVD players. Of course, there isn't really any big manufacturers producing the players anyway, but the ones who do drop off, are likely to join the blu side, piling the pressure, giving more choice for consumers to choose when looking for a HDM player if they go Blu-ray.

[vinnie97]

I doubt those same manufacturers are looking forward to the firmware development nightmares that await them on side Blu.

[crazzeto]

If walmart is turning in 13% profit (per other threads) per player I doubt Toshiba is losing.... Perhaps smurfs come pre-programmed to think a high quality A/V experience must = really expensive to manufature (and purchase) hardware?

[zombieflanders]

So far no BD manufacturer has claimed that there are "firmware development nightmares". Indeed, most of them are very supportive. To be fair, Toshiba's been very supportive with their ton of firmware updates as well

[stockstar1138]

If walmart is turning in 13% profit (per other threads) per player I doubt Toshiba is losing.... Perhaps smurfs come pre-programmed to think a high quality A/V experience must = really expensive to manufature (and purchase) hardware?

I don't think you understand how wal-mart works. Wal-mart sets the price not Toshiba. Wal-mart told Toshiba you sell us the players for $X.XX or we don't sell them in our stores, Toshiba was so desperate they sold wal-mart the players so cheap. Wal-mart does this on many products, because they have so much retail power, that they have this kind of leverage. This is just another way how they can ALWAYS beat the competition. Plus, a 13% markup is nothing to brag about either, I'm sure it was teh minimum Wal-mart was willing to buy the players for.

[Beta-guy]

Cheap HD DVD players may sound like a good thing, and overall they probably are but Toshiba are losing money from every HD DVD player sold due to the real low prices. Therefore, all the other HD DVD player manufacturers must lower their prices to sell any more of their players. So what can they do? The only real option is to drop the format, meaning Toshiba becomes the sole producer of HD DVD players. Of course, there isn't really any big manufacturers producing the players anyway, but the ones who do drop off, are likely to join the blu side, piling the pressure, giving more choice for consumers to choose when looking for a HDM player if they go Blu-ray.

the other thing is, Toshiba has created the expectation that HD DVD players cost $150 thing is, let's say the latest price cuts win the format war for Toshiba (I don't think there is a real chance of this) Toshiba will have to raise prices to make things profitable , and to attract or CE's to making HD DVD players, Blu-ray has been criticized by HD DVD supporters as being too expensive, I think it's closer to a psychological trick, one that they fell for, Toshiba offers HDM player for $150 BDA offers players in the range of $300 - $400, by comparison BD players are indeed more expensive, but is it 'too expensive' or is the truth closer to 'Toshiba is selling below cost'.

cheaper HD DVD players in the short term are great for HDM, but ultimately it hurts HDM as a whole, as it gets people like the HD DVD supporters effected by the psychological trick I mentioned to think that BD players are over priced when the BD players are being sold for what they are worth and this causes a slow down of purchases as the consumer is waiting for a $150 BD player, I've heard HD DVD supporters say that they will go Blu or purple when a $200 Profile 2.0 players is released, and I believe that this is a symptom is the effect.

[vinnie97]

So far no BD manufacturer has claimed that there are "firmware development nightmares". Indeed, most of them are very supportive. To be fair, Toshiba's been very supportive with their ton of firmware updates as well

It doesn't matter what they claim. It's the results that matter. If some cheap Chinese manufacturer can do it better than the likes of Samsung, I will gladly concede or, as you put it, actually provide a "retraction."

[kulmbacher]

So far no BD manufacturer has claimed that there are "firmware development nightmares".

They don't but the users do. Regarding the Samsung BD-P1200 from a CNET review. Maybe Samsung just sucks. I suppose price isn't proportional to suckiness:

I've owned this bluray player for 3 weeks and it's been a living nightmare.

This player will need constant firmware updates in order to play certain bluray movies.

It has been acknowledged by Samsung that this movie will not play Pirates of the Caribbean At Worlds End, Live Free or Die Hard, & Pixar Shorts. Not only do they know but they have failed to release a firmware update to fix this problem.

For a top of line bluray player with a top of the line price, it amazes me that Samsung has dropped the ball on this player.

Don't believe me? Go to this link http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=6505 and you will see that many other owner are having the same problems.

If you're thinking about buying the 1400 model, DON'T! It also lacks product support by Samsung.

[crazzeto]

I don't think you understand how wal-mart works. Wal-mart sets the price not Toshiba. Wal-mart told Toshiba you sell us the players for $X.XX or we don't sell them in our stores, Toshiba was so desperate they sold wal-mart the players so cheap. Wal-mart does this on many products, because they have so much retail power, that they have this kind of leverage. This is just another way how they can ALWAYS beat the competition. Plus, a 13% markup is nothing to brag about either, I'm sure it was teh minimum Wal-mart was willing to buy the players for.

Is that why walmart is setting the exact same price for the unit as everyone else? Even if they demand to pay Toshi a little less just so they can make more per unit (at the same price to the customer) than everyone else. I find it highly unlikely that Toshiba is losing *ANY* money on HD DVD players.

[SRFan]

Toshiba is losing money on each HD DVD player sold. That is a fact confirmed by both toshiba execs and their financial statements.

[bt12483]

I doubt those same manufacturers are looking forward to the firmware development nightmares that await them on side Blu.

at least they can make a profit.

what is the alternative? make a product that has to meet the artificially low prices of Toshiba?

That leaves two options imo: meet the ~$100 pricepoint established by Toshiba - most likely resulting in shitty, low quality players, or abandon HD DVD since it is not financially prudent to make such a low priced item so early in the life cycle of the format.

I think we have seen what the CE manufacturers have chosen, as Toshiba is all alone making HD DVD players.

All alone. With 2 out of the 6 major studios falling down with them.

[whoelse]

Toshiba is losing money on each HD DVD player sold. That is a fact confirmed by both toshiba execs and their financial statements.

Exactly. mmmm cheese


(I hate this minimum character thing)

[bt12483]

Is that why walmart is setting the exact same price for the unit as everyone else? Even if they demand to pay Toshi a little less just so they can make more per unit (at the same price to the customer) than everyone else. I find it highly unlikely that Toshiba is losing *ANY* money on HD DVD players.

this link is old, but shows that Toshiba has in the past lost money on the players (to be fair, just as the PS3 did at launch)

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/06...layer_subsidy/

It is entirely reasonable to assume that cutting player MSRP by a whopping 50% can't help the bottom line, and losses are most certainly being incurred.

they set the original MSRP at a level to make a certain profit.

cutting that by 50% is drastic, and surely effects the original plans for profit.

to suggest that Toshiba is not losing *ANY* money is ridiculous.

[ShadowDragyn]

Gee, this sounds exactly like another product that HD DVD supporters have been ridiculing for months. What was that again...oh, yeah! UMD!!!

Seriously, if HD DVD survives at all, it appears the only manufacturer will be Toshiba. And, unlike Sony, they don't produce movies. So what is anyone's incentive to continue to produce content for it without a vested interest like Sony has with the PSP?

[Mike171979]

One thing is for sure.

Imagine if Toshiba did release a Blu Ray Player.

A fully featured 2.0 profile for only $149.

Imagine how many they would sell, lol.

The components are the same, same blue laser, etc.

Toshiba is a good electronics company, I'm sure they are working harder than anyone to cut the cost on this kind of equipment.