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  1. #1
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    Default Nostalgia, as I kind of miss the HD format war

    I was reading CES information when I was thinking about Blu winning just over 5 years ago with WB's shocking everyone before CES 2008. Let me say first I love that every disc I want is available to me now and I don't need two different players, but here is why I miss the HD Wars.

    1. Unlike a forum war for your favorite sports team it wasn't just fans fighting. We had companies, their employees, web sites all fighting for their color. Here and in other forums we had actual insiders with their takes and sometimes real information.
    2. Like a WWE event we had companies changing sides!
    3. It gave me something to do everyday and sometimes multiple hours a day instead of actually working. I still will come to HDD to check reviews of catalog titles, but I'm not here a tenth of when I use to be.
    4. Back in the day I was more excited to see the clarity and sound of a good disc. Today I just expect it. There isn't the marvel I use to have over discs.
    5. The deals! BOGO disks, Cheap players. It was like black friday every month with something.

    I still love my discs. My internet tops out at 3Mb(grrr) so DD isn't a real option, but I do rip my discs to my computer and stream content to my PS3s and use the rips on phones\tablets. With bandwidth caps on cell phones, cable and DSL could we maybe get one more physical war with 4K?

    Since this was a nostalgia thread i didn't alter my signiture from early 2008.
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  2. #2
    fitprod is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyopicRaiderfan View Post
    With bandwidth caps on cell phones, cable and DSL could we maybe get one more physical war with 4K?
    The only manufacturer that would be dumb enough to attempt a non-unified 4K physical format would be Toshiba at this point, and all the studios would probably kick them to the curb, since they don't want another format war.

    fitprod

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitprod View Post
    The only manufacturer that would be dumb enough to attempt a non-unified 4K physical format would be Toshiba at this point, and all the studios would probably kick them to the curb, since they don't want another format war.

    fitprod
    Wow, how smart. When are you leaving the psychiatric hospital?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noibeli View Post
    Wow, how smart. When are you leaving the psychiatric hospital?
    Seriously, you'd would want two competing formats again? When you actually work in the industry and talk to the people involved, get back to me.

    I'm sure there a spot in the psych ward for you, right next to Myopicraiderfan (He's probably been driven over the edge by the last 20 years of the Davis family regime.)

    fitprod

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    Quote Originally Posted by fitprod View Post
    Seriously, you'd would want two competing formats again? When you actually work in the industry and talk to the people involved, get back to me.

    I'm sure there a spot in the psych ward for you, right next to Myopicraiderfan (He's probably been driven over the edge by the last 20 years of the Davis family regime.)

    fitprod
    Man, who said I want a new movie format? Seriously, are you ok?

    I just didn't like your post against Toshiba as I am a HD DVD collector. 1080p was necessary and Toshiba made this possible for consumers, there is no reason to attack the company. Their HD DVD product was very good and consumer friendly (region free + interactive features without issues). By the way, only Sony is able to creat any new movie format in the future as they own the most movie companies lol.

    We definitely don't need a new format as today still more people are buying DVDs than BD. Who would buy 4K stuff? Only people with huge screens who will see the difference of 2160p. This market is definitely too small. I also don't think the thread starter is hoping for a new format (4K against whatever). It was just a special time during 2006 and 2008, for me too and I know what he does mean. Your post are totally pointless.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noibeli View Post
    Man, who said I want a new movie format? Seriously, are you ok?

    I just didn't like your post against Toshiba as I am a HD DVD collector.
    Then you lose. The entire point of his post was to say that wishing for another format war is stupid and unlikely. You then called him mental but admitted it was only because you didn't like that his tone seemed anti-Toshiba and you're an HD-DVD collector. That seemed neither here nor there because, aside from saying that Toshiba was the only one likely to even consider another format war, his entire point was that it isn't going to happen and it's dumb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitprod View Post
    The only manufacturer that would be dumb enough to attempt a non-unified 4K physical format would be Toshiba at this point, and all the studios would probably kick them to the curb, since they don't want another format war.

    fitprod
    4K would not even be in the same category as basic HD like Blu ray. There would not be a format war, but a format upgrade. If we were to say that 4K and blu ray would be in a format war, then common sense and would tell us that DVD and BD are in a format war right now, and Blu ray is about to lose the format war.
    I disagree with the Toshiba statement on your basis, as Toshiba was protecting the DVD royalties it holds and wanted to ensure future royalties with HD DVD, but had they known that Blu ray would be met with such apathy, they probably would have left well enough alone. They could try the 4k push for all I know, but looking at trends, digital seems to be the next entertainment vehicle.

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    fitprod is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverado View Post
    I disagree with the Toshiba statement on your basis, as Toshiba was protecting the DVD royalties it holds and wanted to ensure future royalties with HD DVD, but had they known that Blu ray would be met with such apathy, they probably would have left well enough alone. They could try the 4k push for all I know, but looking at trends, digital seems to be the next entertainment vehicle.
    I understand that, but when every manufacturer and all studios, excluding WB (who had DVD royalties to be concerned with) and Universal, is fully backing Blu-ray, you have to establish a unified standard. Toshiba pulled a Sony (VHS/BETA) and decided their product was good enough that everyone would eventually buckle. Hell, Toshiba originally had Disney in their camp, and once they decided to side with the Blu-ray group before the official launch of HD-DVD and Blu-ray in 2006, Toshiba should have given it up. That would have been the fall of 2005 I believe, when it all went down, prior to everyone prepping for their CES presentations for 2006. - I think that was also when Microsoft started getting vocal and cause a lot of the problems we had to deal with throughout the format war. They got what they wanted, they stunted it's growth which was the main reason they even cared.

    (It's ironic that Sony worked with others on DVD, learning from the VHS/Beta debacle)

    I still cite that the so-called apathy towards Blu-ray had nothing to do with the format, but the fact there were two competing formats. Consumers do not like to be confused, and the core "sheep" need to be led. Multiple formats confuse them, and they wont spend the money.

    Ultraviolet is also going to have to deal with this... They may have product from most of the studios, but unless you have Disney it's still a problem. Hell, most people still think Ultraviolet is free since it is packed in with discs, which accounts for 99% of 7 million accounts WB was touting at CES. The trick for the studios will be how do I sell something that most people feel has no value...

    Look 4K as a home delivery format is at least 2-3 years away, and it very possible that they will try to delivery it digitally, but there are too many issues in delivering a high end format that way. (See Netflix's recent boasting about 3D and Super HD or what ever the hell they are calling it... Limited to specific ISPs which need to be carried by end users ISP provider.) Originally, I thought Blu-ray would be the last physical medium, but there are still too many bugs in the streaming system, and we might see one more physical format within the next five years. Hell, good old LPs are still being manufactured, obviously in limited quantities, so I can't see how there wouldn't be a physical format for home video.

    fitprod

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    Quote Originally Posted by fitprod View Post
    Hell, most people still think Ultraviolet is free since it is packed in with discs, which accounts for 99% of 7 million accounts WB was touting at CES.
    More likely, most people have never even heard of Ultraviolet.
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    My tone in the original post as far as another format war was sarcasm. I believe we will have 4K physical media using hi capacity blu as well as 4K streaming for those who want it. I don't think anyone will want to fight for a different medium when the financial rewards would seem to be declining. Blu and dvd will continue to be viable for the next 5 years and likely more right next to DD. The only physical war we will see is who owns the delivery(Playstation, Xbox, AppleTV, Telco Cable set top boxes) or if we fracture with every device capable of delivery multiple levels of content.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitprod View Post
    99% of 7 million accounts WB was touting at CES. The trick for the studios will be how do I sell something that most people feel has no value...
    I suspect 99% of those accounts were from people who signed up and haven't touched it since trying it out.

    Mobile streaming just doesn't seem like a market that will work well to me. Given the bandwidth requirements, you'll need to be near WiFi to use it (or drain most of your 4G for the month). But that makes it impossible to watch the content in the situations where you're most likely to want to watch something on your mobile device: when you're on the bus/train, sitting in an airport that has no free WiFi (many major ones), sitting on an airplane (streaming services over WiFi are BLOCKED), etc.

    That leaves streaming at home. But if you bought the disk, why are you streaming it?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jables View Post

    That leaves streaming at home. But if you bought the disk, why are you streaming it?
    Because it's more convenient.

    Remember that most consumers are not like us and for them convenience trumps quality. Besides, streaming 1080p HDX from VUDU doesn't look that bad at all. Not as good as Blu-ray but still much closer to Blu-ray PQ than upscaled DVD. Personally I'll always prefer to get up and put that disc in the tray because it's always worth the extra quality, but the industry cares more about what the majority wants and that majority wants convenience first and quality second. They always have.

    Of course the nice thing about new release Blu-ray purchases is that usually you don't have to choose because the UV code comes packed in with the SKU and it is generally HD. Disney is not on board yet but that's no loss for me and I think it's only a matter of time before they release on UV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fitprod View Post
    The only manufacturer that would be dumb enough to attempt a non-unified 4K physical format would be Toshiba at this point, and all the studios would probably kick them to the curb, since they don't want another format war.

    fitprod
    So one point we're supposed to take away from this post is Sony can learn from its mistakes (at least to some degree) but Toshiba can't?

  14. #14
    fitprod is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
    So one point we're supposed to take away from this post is Sony can learn from its mistakes (at least to some degree) but Toshiba can't?
    The thing is... Toshiba; and Microsoft, for it's own reasons (steaming and the thought of a VC1 standard for it); were the only manufacturing companies that were not on board with Blu-ray at the launch, even though they had the option to unify the formats the previous fall before all hell broke loose.

    Sony has learned over the years about trying to completely go on their own, mainly from the VHS/Beta war. They also saw their multiple attempts to launch new audio formats go up in smoke more than one... Mini-disc and SACD (another failed format war on both sides.)

    Toshiba probably has learned from it's mistakes, especially after having to finish paying off whatever contracts were signed with Paramount and Universal for their exclusivity. But I don't even know if Toshiba gives a crap about the CE market anymore. They only have about 13 TV models (2 3D), 1 BD player and 3 DVD player. (For crying out loud one of the DVD players is a VHS combo unit... I know people have VHS but is there really a market for it?)

    fitprod

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    "Mistake" is a pretty strong word. So just because you lost means it was a mistake to play? The format war could have gone either way. Even Toshiba thought they they would get Warner down to the last minute. Coin flip, HD DVD lost.

    But did Toshiba and Microsoft really lose? DVD still accounts over 70% of revenue and here we are almost completing year seven. And of that 28% share that Blu-ray enjoys, I would guess that at least 2/3 of those sales have a DVD inside. So approximately 90% of all OD sales include a DVD. Toshiba is not hurting.

    And what did Sony sacrifice to win the format war? Just their #1 position in the HD console war. A smaller cut in a $10-12 billion a year (US) software gaming industry to get a $2.5 billion a year Blu-ray format that Toshiba earns a lot of royalties anyway. Do you think MS didn't realize the sacrifice and that they would be the beneficiaries?

    Every video format that has come along has been through a format war. The only difference is that the winner of this one is nothing more than a niche format, a supplement to DVD. Big deal.

    Have you checked out the Walmart racks lately. Some stores are reducing Blu-ray stock and replacing it with DVD. Did somebody say "failure"?

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