Dollhouse premiere Friday the 13th! Who's watching?

[zombiequest]

Originally Posted by Slayerfaith1982

The show didn't seem like a Whedon show 2 me, that's it's biggest crime. I realize they had to create a scenario and introduce characters, but all the dialouge was very generic and flat. Not 1 bit of the intelligence or uniqueness you expect from Whedon dialouge. It came across as just another generic sci fi action show

Agreed, that's why it didn't pull me in... To be quite honest, I'm really not a Huge Fan of Dushku to begin with.. I think she makes an excellent co-star or partner to compliment a Leading Actor in a show or movie, but she doesn't carry the stage enough for me. When she's the best actor in a show, it has to be one HELL of an amazing script and writing.. and it doesn't look like she has that behind her.. most shows have their very BEST episode as their 1st episode. (rightfully so) to generate positive word of mouth. And they usually go down hill a little after that.

Viewership falls by almost 50% for most new shows during episode 2. (unless they are INCREDIBLE shows that get strong word of mouth and build viewership) - Like "True Blood" did. It's still too early to predict anything, but seeing it in the Friday Night spot (almost as bad as a Saturday Night spot) is not going to help it with it's target demographic (teens) who are mostly out at that time. I think the show's gonna be cancelled before a full season.

[DoubleJ]

I definitely prefer Firefly, but I enjoyed this first episode. I hope it gets better.

[winklepr]

Originally Posted by zombiequest

... most shows have their very BEST episode as their 1st episode. (rightfully so) to generate positive word of mouth. And they usually go down hill a little after that.

I could not disagree more! I don't know many shows (especially Whedon's) that the 1st episode has ever been the best. In Buffy, many would say either "Hush" or "Once More With Feeling" which didn't happen until Season 4 and 6 respectively. In Angel, many like "Smile Time" which wasn't even until it's final season. With Firefly, maybe most would choose "Out of Gas" and that wasn't until mid-way through it's run. Of all 3 of those shows, I wouldn't classify their 1st episode as the best, and in the case of Buffy and Angel - I don't even think they'd make my top 10 lists!

More so, I can't think of any show that I've followed that the first episode has been the best of its entire run or run-so-far. Like someone mentioned before, Pilot's are usually necessary for establishing the show - but once established - I think that's when the really good stuff can start to come out.

Originally Posted by zombiequest

Viewership falls by almost 50% for most new shows during episode 2. (unless they are INCREDIBLE shows that get strong word of mouth and build viewership) - Like "True Blood" did. It's still too early to predict anything, but seeing it in the Friday Night spot (almost as bad as a Saturday Night spot) is not going to help it with it's target demographic (teens) who are mostly out at that time. I think the show's gonna be cancelled before a full season.

This is the sad thing, is that I don't think Fox will be as patient as HBO in letting it build viewership. We can hope it's get's at least an Arrested Development-esque treatment where they give it 3 seasons before giving up on it. If they really do cancel it in 2-3 weeks like Josh said, I won't be surprised but I won't be happy either. Of course, Arrested Development didn't suffer a Friday Night Spot either. That's both good and bad for it, since Friday Night Spots aren't expected to perform as well as other nights but they also won't tend to perform well period. I was unaware that the target demographic was teens, I'd say young adult (18-30 or whatever). Ah well, tonight it is LOST and then Dollhouse on Friday - then back to this thread on Saturday .

[Neutral_HD_Fan]

I think I would have enjoyed the pilot more if I hadn't expected it to be like buffy/angel/firefly. Whedon always said he wanted to do something darker but always navigated back to the whit and charm (e.g. Angel and Firefly). One thing that may keep the show dark is his choice of leading lady. It's not that she doesn't have range, but that comedy is not her strength. I just can't see her being the Mal/Angel/Buffy of her show. Each of those characters could go from extremely broody to downright goofy without feeling "out of character". If Echo cracked a joke and started laughing it would be awkward. However, Whedon considers his first 6 episodes of any show to be "pilots", so we won't see the true nature of the show until after then (if it doesn't get canceled first). Perhaps by then the show will have an established premise and fanbase, and he will be at liberty to be more creative. I can't wait for whedon's signature "special guest" appearances of actors from his earlier shows.

[diggumsmax]

Originally Posted by Neutral_HD_Fan

I think I would have enjoyed the pilot more if I hadn't expected it to be like buffy/angel/firefly. Whedon always said he wanted to do something darker but always navigated back to the whit and charm (e.g. Angel and Firefly). One thing that may keep the show dark is his choice of leading lady. It's not that she doesn't have range, but that comedy is not her strength. I just can't see her being the Mal/Angel/Buffy of her show. Each of those characters could go from extremely broody to downright goofy without feeling "out of character". If Echo cracked a joke and started laughing it would be awkward. However, Whedon considers his first 6 episodes of any show to be "pilots", so we won't see the true nature of the show until after then (if it doesn't get canceled first). Perhaps by then the show will have an established premise and fanbase, and he will be at liberty to be more creative. I can't wait for whedon's signature "special guest" appearances of actors from his earlier shows.

I have to agree. I finally got a chance to watch the pilot and it just seemed to lack that sarcastic and witty humor that other Whedon series have had. I also don't think Dushku has the range to pull this off. They are going to need a lot or range from her with the multiple personalities and I'm not sure she can pull it off. Personally I thought the best actor on the show was Helo from BSG. I hope Fox gives this show a chance but with the Friday night slot and lackluster reviews from the pilot one has to wonder how long it will last on Fox. I also hope it doesn't just turn into a 'Personality of the week' show. I would rather have more Firefly but that is never going to happen.

[zombiequest]

Originally Posted by diggumsmax

I have to agree. I finally got a chance to watch the pilot and it just seemed to lack that sarcastic and witty humor that other Whedon series have had. I also don't think Dushku has the range to pull this off. They are going to need a lot or range from her with the multiple personalities and I'm not sure she can pull it off. Personally I thought the best actor on the show was Helo from BSG. I hope Fox gives this show a chance but with the Friday night slot and lackluster reviews from the pilot one has to wonder how long it will last on Fox. I also hope it doesn't just turn into a 'Personality of the week' show. I would rather have more Firefly but that is never going to happen.

Agreed... I'd be in heaven if Firefly came back... but obviously "River" Summer Glau is in the Terminator Series, "Jayne" Adam Baldwin is in Chuck, "Kaylee" Jewel Staite is in Stargate Atlantis and "Mal" Nathan Fillion has a new show called "Castle" premiering soon.

Only one's not busy are Zoe, Walsh and Dr.Simon... and they killed off Walsh in Serenity. Bringing back Firefly EVER for a second series would take a Virtual Miracle of unearthly proportions.

[Josh Z]

Originally Posted by zombiequest

Agreed... I'd be in heaven if Firefly came back... but obviously "River" Summer Glau is in the Terminator Series, "Jayne" Adam Baldwin is in Chuck, "Kaylee" Jewel Staite is in Stargate Atlantis and "Mal" Nathan Fillion has a new show called "Castle" premiering soon.

Terminator's ratings are in the toilet. I don't think that one's going to be on the Fox schedule much longer. Early word on Castle isn't very encouraging, but who knows how that one will play out.

[Godstar]

Originally Posted by Josh Z

I'm a big Whedon fan. The pilot episode didn't do much for me. It wasn't terrible by any means, but many of the performances were shaky and even the dialogue lacked Whedon's trademark wit. I'm not sure that Dushku is a strong enough actress to pull off what the role will require of her from week to week.

Whedon was also off his game as a director here. The pacing just wan't right. There wasn't much energy in any scene. And what was up with the motorcycle race where it was patently obvious that the bikes were going about 10 miles per hour?

That said, Whedon's strength is long-form storytelling, and his shows tend to get better as they build up some steam. I'll keep watching until Fox cancels it, which will probably be 2 or 3 weeks from now.

Yeah, I didn't like the show much either. There was something very vapid about it, and seemed like just another young T-N-A festival for Dushku. I've seen her do better roles, but this one isn't for her. I'm not really sure who it's for but there was more to the show that I didn't like than just her character. Such as her being pimped out as some guys date for a night. They're basically whoring a girl out who can't remember, and I'm supposed to like the organization, and watch it on a weekly basis? The thing with the negotiator was a little more tolerable, but the introduction you get kind of through the rest of the show off. Then they start tossing in characters, and then add in the accidental discovery by the character of what really happens to her, which to no surprise was met with little to no surprise. That part I found to be just stupid, as human nature would be to freak out and get the hell away from that place. I don't see this show making it even 1 season, but I could be wrong.

[Josh Z]

Originally Posted by Godstar

They're basically whoring a girl out who can't remember, and I'm supposed to like the organization, and watch it on a weekly basis?

I don't think you're supposed to like the organization. Clearly, there's something dark going on behind the scenes. They're a lot like SD-6 at this point.

[Godstar]

Originally Posted by Josh Z

I don't think you're supposed to like the organization. Clearly, there's something dark going on behind the scenes. They're a lot like SD-6 at this point.

You're right, maybe we're not. But I think it would have been a better idea to make me grow to hate them, rather than hate them right off the bat. If the show revolves around this particular organization, I'm probably not going to like it very much. There's just nothing to like.

[diggumsmax]

Originally Posted by Josh Z

I don't think you're supposed to like the organization. Clearly, there's something dark going on behind the scenes. They're a lot like SD-6 at this point.

Seems to me like the organization is not to be liked (they are into human trafficking after all) but some of the characters inside the organization seemed likable (like Echo's handler and the guy that programs them). The lady in charge seems like a cold hearted bitch though. I think we will see some internal conflict inside the organization because of this for the whole 6 episodes we will probably get to see before it gets cancelled.

[Slayerfaith1982]

hey at least there will be the other 7 unaired episodes available on the dvd box set after it's cancelled! lol

Anyone remember Wonderfalls? Aired 2 episodes or 3 episodes, then was cancelled n the dvd set with like 13 episodes was released.

[winklepr]

Originally Posted by Josh Z

Terminator's ratings are in the toilet. I don't think that one's going to be on the Fox schedule much longer. Early word on Castle isn't very encouraging, but who knows how that one will play out.

That's true, rumor has it that by episode 10 of Dollhouse (assuming the doom-and-gloomers are wrong about it being cancelled before that) that it will follow Prison Break as Terminator will be off the air by then. I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing, or a better thing, but would be curious to hear as I've stopped following the show (after watching the first couple seasons on DVD).

[winklepr]

Originally Posted by Josh Z

I don't think you're supposed to like the organization. Clearly, there's something dark going on behind the scenes. They're a lot like SD-6 at this point.

Bonus points for the Alias reference! I agree, and it worked. Although knowing Whedon, I'll end up hating it now, loving it later, then he'll kill it . At least it would be a new best for him, killing an entire organization (unless you count W&H)!

[Josh Z]

I liked the second episode better than the first. The show still hasn't found its footing yet, but this one was more entertaining. Casting the Middleman didn't hurt.