What are used XA2s going for now-a-days?

[chris gerhard]

Well, it'll play the same titles it has played in the past (all HD DVD and DVD), only that the HD DVD titles are getting older. Most HD DVD titles were released as catalog titles anyway, and besides purple owners aren't concerned about playing new releases. So I don't think it will become more useless with time, any more than the HD DVD titles that were purchased will become useless. Blu-ray or DVD titles are just as likely to become useless, if the owner does not want to watch them anymore.

There will be price erosion with this player as with any player that gets more out of date as time goes on. Same goes for the Blu-ray models that were released in 2007 as well, and I'll bet their value has held up even worse. I'm amazed that the XA2 commands such a high price still, but it'll gradually go down over time in my opinion, even though it's the flagship player of the format. By the same token, the average used player will be sold with more 'mileage' and new players will be nearly impossible to find, so in most cases in the future, as now and before, you'll just be getting what you paid for.

It is hard to predict what will happen with any specific media player but the limited quantity and desirability of this player means I think it will hold its price going forward. HD DVD software and HD DVD hardware prices have plummeted and a big part of the reason is that Blu-ray prices have gone down so rapidly. Blu-ray is worth a premium compared to HD DVD and DVD but why HD DVD prices have dropped below DVD prices is puzzling to me. I knew LaserDisc prices were going down the toilet once I saw DVD and I quickly unloaded my collection, taking a hit, but nothing like the hit if I had waited. I knew HD DVD prices were heading south and decided to buy after a big drop. Unlike LaserDisc, HD DVD is still a viable product to use with current audio and video systems. I thought that meant hardware prices would hold up, but at a discount compared to Blu-ray, not a small fraction of Blu-ray like we have seen with notable exceptions being the high end HD DVD players, this model, the clones, and the HD-A35. I sold a mint HD-A35 for $150 about 6 months ago and I think I could do better than that now. HD DVD software prices are totally dependent on quantity available and number of households with players chasing that quantity. Some rarer HD DVD titles are doing well, a few do better than the Blu-ray version.

What happens with old consumer audio video formats is often impossible to predict and defies logic. Why the 70's quadraphonic formats mostly bring good prices today is difficult for me to understand. There wasn't much demand in the 70's and the formats were all quickly history. Quad 8-Track, CD-4, Quad Open Reel and the others have value today. I owned several of them in the 70's and sure wouldn't mess with any of them today, I much prefer the digital surround formats, SACD, DVD-A, Blu-ray, HD DVD and DVD-V. To think a Quad 8-Track tape I could have purchased for a $1 or less at a garage sale in the 80's might be worth $20 or more today, sometimes over $100, and an HD DVD that cost $20 in 2007 is worth less than $5 today makes me wish I had a time machine. When my mother asked me what she was supposed to do with my Quad collection I left in the closet at the house, I wouldn't answer I don't care, the answer would be I will pick it up, it will be worth $10,000 in 2008.

Maybe in 20 years, there will be a reason HD DVD is worth some money. I doubt it but if it happens, it won't be until after I sell my collection and players. The HD-A1, HD-A2 and HD-A3 will never be worth much but I sure wouldn't rule out seeing the HD-XA2 bringing $250 or more in 2012.

Chris

[bruceames]

It is hard to predict what will happen with any specific media player but the limited quantity and desirability of this player means I think it will hold its price going forward. HD DVD software and HD DVD hardware prices have plummeted and a big part of the reason is that Blu-ray prices have gone down so rapidly. Blu-ray is worth a premium compared to HD DVD and DVD but why HD DVD prices have dropped below DVD prices is puzzling to me. I knew LaserDisc prices were going down the toilet once I saw DVD and I quickly unloaded my collection, taking a hit, but nothing like the hit if I had waited. I knew HD DVD prices were heading south and decided to buy after a big drop. Unlike LaserDisc, HD DVD is still a viable product to use with current audio and video systems. I thought that meant hardware prices would hold up, but at a discount compared to Blu-ray, not a small fraction of Blu-ray like we have seen with notable exceptions being the high end HD DVD players, this model, the clones, and the HD-A35. I sold a mint HD-A35 for $150 about 6 months ago and I think I could do better than that now. HD DVD software prices are totally dependent on quantity available and number of households with players chasing that quantity. Some rarer HD DVD titles are doing well, a few do better than the Blu-ray version.

What happens with old consumer audio video formats is often impossible to predict and defies logic. Why the 70's quadraphonic formats mostly bring good prices today is difficult for me to understand. There wasn't much demand in the 70's and the formats were all quickly history. Quad 8-Track, CD-4, Quad Open Reel and the others have value today. I owned several of them in the 70's and sure wouldn't mess with any of them today, I much prefer the digital surround formats, SACD, DVD-A, Blu-ray, HD DVD and DVD-V. To think a Quad 8-Track tape I could have purchased for a $1 or less at a garage sale in the 80's might be worth $20 or more today, sometimes over $100, and an HD DVD that cost $20 in 2007 is worth less than $5 today makes me wish I had a time machine. When my mother asked me what she was supposed to do with my Quad collection I left in the closet at the house, I wouldn't answer I don't care, the answer would be I will pick it up, it will be worth $10,000 in 2008.

Maybe in 20 years, there will be a reason HD DVD is worth some money. I doubt it but if it happens, it won't be until after I sell my collection and players. The HD-A1, HD-A2 and HD-A3 will never be worth much but I sure wouldn't rule out seeing the HD-XA2 bringing $250 or more in 2012.

Chris

One would think that prices will hold up better than laserdisc, since HD DVD offers the same viewing experience as the format that defeated it. But the way prices have been dropping on the software, it seems for the most part that people put very little weight on performance and how much enjoyment you can get from it for many years, and just focus on it being 'dead'. It's the stigma of HD DVD being the losing format that drives down prices and it seems like quite a few titles were printed up, so it's comical that a lesser DVD title sells for twice as an HD DVD copy. They must have printed up a lot of copies.

[chris gerhard]

One would think that prices will hold up better than laserdisc, since HD DVD offers the same viewing experience as the format that defeated it. But the way prices have been dropping on the software, it seems for the most part that people put very little weight on performance and how much enjoyment you can get from it for many years, and just focus on it being 'dead'. It's the stigma of HD DVD being the losing format that drives down prices and it seems like quite a few titles were printed up, so it's comical that a lesser DVD title sells for twice as an HD DVD copy. They must have printed up a lot of copies.

Yes, the quantity manufactured for many of the HD DVD releases, even catalog titles must have been far greater than I ever dreamed. We know the average quantity sold for each title before Toshiba pulled the plug wasn't much. What I didn't know was that despite selling about 5,000 or less Bourne Identity was manufactured in a quantity of about 500,000. Of course a large quantity was given away and what was left had to be liquidated at almost giveaway prices.

Chris

[Webphilosopher]

The real value of the XA2 derives from its cross-platform (HD DVD and DVD) popularity. Those with large DVD collections understand that the XA2 is one of the very best DVD players ever made. If only HD DVD users were looking for them, the price would erode rather quickly.

If you want your large collection of DVD's to look their best, you only really have two choices: By consensus, the best DVD player is the Oppo DV-983H, which has been discontinued and has been replaced by the Oppo BD-83, Oppo's Blu-ray player which maintains the excellent DVD playback of the 983.

If you follow Ebay, both the Oppo 983 and the Toshiba XA2 are fetching about the same prices. Some people are selling their 983 in anticipation of getting the BD-83. The BD-83 will retail for roughly $200 more (about $599) than the 983 ($399).

However, HD users realize that most BD players have equivalent BD picture quality, although they vary as DVD players (and less importantly, with respect to load times and features). So combining an inexpensive BD player with either the Oppo 983 or the Toshiba XA2 will satisfy both BD and DVD high PQ expectations, for about the same price as buying a new Oppo BD-83.

As long as the Oppo (both the 983 and the 83) and the XA2 (as well as its Onkyo clone) are viewed as Number One and Two among the all-time best DVD players, these superior DVD players will be in demand, as long as DVD movies constitute the bulk of movie titles out there (over 100,000).

If all HD DVD discs were to disappear tomorrow, the XA2 would still be highly prized and valued for its DVD play.

On the other hand, people who primarily view HD are less demanding about DVD quality; and players that are "almost as good" as the best for DVD's will be good enough.

JMHO: If Toshiba produced a DVD-only equivalent of the XA2 and used the same Reon chip (or better), they would see that the market still exists for high quality DVD players. Unfortunately for them, their XDE was a feeble effort compared to the XA2 in this regard.

[chris gerhard]

JMHO: If Toshiba produced a DVD-only equivalent of the XA2 and used the same Reon chip (or better), they would see that the market still exists for high quality DVD players. Unfortunately for them, their XDE was a feeble effort compared to the XA2 in this regard.

I like the HD-XA2 but I will disagree with the opinion that there is much of a market for a high quality DVD player without Blu-ray. Oppo, Denon and Toshiba all believe that the market for high end DVD players without Blu-ray is a thing of the past and none of them are making an expensive straight DVD player now. No major consumer electronics company will offer one without Blu-ray ever again is my guess. The DV-983H holds good value because of all-region DVD-V and SACD/DVD-A playback but the market that would purchase that player for the excellent DVD-V region 1 playback will buy the BDP-83 or other Blu-ray player with excellent DVD-V performance. The market that will pay much for the HD-XA2 for strictly DVD-V is not much either in my opinion. The HD-XA2 and clones hold good value as the best HD DVD player with great DVD-V performance.

Toshiba hoped SRT or XDE DVD players might have a market but at a lower price point and may have discovered the price point necessary to sell it is too low for the product to be viable.

Chris

[Webphilosopher]

I like the HD-XA2 but I will disagree with the opinion that there is much of a market for a high quality DVD player without Blu-ray. Oppo, Denon and Toshiba all believe that the market for high end DVD players without Blu-ray is a thing of the past and none of them are making an expensive straight DVD player now. No major consumer electronics company will offer one without Blu-ray ever again is my guess. The DV-983H holds good value because of all-region DVD-V and SACD/DVD-A playback but the market that would purchase that player for the excellent DVD-V region 1 playback will buy the BDP-83 or other Blu-ray player with excellent DVD-V performance. The market that will pay much for the HD-XA2 for strictly DVD-V is not much either in my opinion. The HD-XA2 and clones hold good value as the best HD DVD player with great DVD-V performance.

Toshiba hoped SRT or XDE DVD players might have a market but at a lower price point and may have discovered the price point necessary to sell it is too low for the product to be viable.

Chris

As far as I know, Denon is still making expensive DVD players. I also believe that Oppo could have sold lots more of their 983 players at the $399 price point. I for one was looking for the 983 when it was discontinued. It remains to be seen whether quality DVD-only players hold their value. I think that until BD replaces all the DVD titles, people will still look for high quality DVD playback, especially those who already have or don't want a BD player.

[chris gerhard]

As far as I know, Denon is still making expensive DVD players. I also believe that Oppo could have sold lots more of their 983 players at the $399 price point. I for one was looking for the 983 when it was discontinued. It remains to be seen whether quality DVD-only players hold their value. I think that until BD replaces all the DVD titles, people will still look for high quality DVD playback, especially those who already have or don't want a BD player.

What high end Denon player do you think is still being manufactured? DVD-5910ci or DVD-3930ci? My understanding is neither is being manufactured now and hasn't been for sometime prior to the Denon Blu-ray players. The Oppo BDP-83 is being sold now for $499 and the majority of the market that would pay $399 for the DV-983 instead already owns it is my best guess. These companies have seen the demand for high priced straight DVD players go to basically nothing as Blu-ray player prices collapsed, the result is nothing but bargain priced modest DVD players are being made. There may be some niche manufacturer offer high priced DVD players, just as there are high priced turntables still made. That market with high profit margins and tiny sales quantities will go mostly unnoticed and I don't expect to even know anybody that buys one.

Chris

[Cochise]

If you pay $350 for an XA2 you are getting ripped off. $250 is the max. While the player is awesome...every day the thing becomes more and more useless and there are some great upscaling BD players with Reon (Samsung 25xx units). The 25xx units seem to be doing pretty well playing the majority of BD discs as well.

Got $301 for my XA2 on eBay last night.

And yeah, the Samsung BDP2500 is almost as good for upscaling, a reason why I decided to let XA2 go. Another reason (and I know I'll get spanked for this) is that the XA2 can be so $#@! temperamental with HDMI/HDCP. On my old TV with HDCP compliant DVI the XA2 often wouldn't recognize the connection on startup and I'd have to shut down & restart a couple times. It was fine once it recognized the connection, just had problems on startup. My new Panasonic projector has 720p native resolution, but can accept 1080p/24 input, which the Samsung 2500 does just fine. But even set to 1080p24 in the setup menu, the XA2 insisted on outputting 1080i. The A30 now used as my main HD DVD player correctly outputs 1080p/24.

[dfms23]

Sounds like the A20 or A30 will be a good HD player for me. Trying to find one for a bargain

[GizmoDVD]

Got $301 for my XA2 on eBay last night.

Not bad! After fees and everything you get about $275.

[HD 335]

Is $250 considered a low price for a XA2 in very good condition with manual and remote?

[chris gerhard]

Is $250 considered a low price for a XA2 in very good condition with manual and remote?

Not low really but based on what I am seeing, I would say it is a fair price. I have seen a number sell for about that recently.

Chris

[HD 335]

Not low really but based on what I am seeing, I would say it is a fair price. I have seen a number sell for about that recently.

Chris

Thanks Chris, I was hoping to get it for $225 but a few late bidders pushed up the price and I ended up getting it for $245. The seller is local so I saved on shipping, plus I really don't want it being transported by FedEx or UPS

Time to look up some picture settings for the Reon upscaling chip. The 5K only has basic settings.

[Cochise]

Thanks Chris, I was hoping to get it for $225 but a few late bidders pushed up the price and I ended up getting it for $245. The seller is local so I saved on shipping, plus I really don't want it being transported by FedEx or UPS

Time to look up some picture settings for the Reon upscaling chip. The 5K only has basic settings.

Congrats on winning an XA2, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

I copied this post from AVSForum long ago, keeping it in a text file. I found it very useful in tweaking the Picture button settings:

This may give you a bit of a starting point.

Using the "Picture" button on the remote (top left, 3rd button down) a box comes up on the screen during playback. You have 3 settings that can be customized.

I used various setup discs to calibrate and found that turning contrast down to -4 outputted a contrast level that provides the greates detail without being overlybright and washing out detail. If you leave it at "0" then turning contrast down on the monitor will not restore the lost detail. You can turn it up at the monitor a couple of notches to restore brightness without losing detail.

Set brightness to 0 or no more than +1.

Edge Enhancement if turned on affects BOTH HD and SD playback.
The +2 setting makes an amazing difference on SD playback bringing out more sharpness and detail but on certain discs seems to add some graininess. Movies that have an extra clean transfer can look remarkable at the +2 setting, otherwise +1 is a good compromise, providing more detail but without adding grain.
On HD playback it also gives the picture more detail but also adds some grain. I've begun using the +1 setting as a default where some extra sharpness and detail are added but without adding graininess.

Noise Reduction (If turned on ONLY works on SD playback):
1) Mosquito NR - Use it. It removes the pinpoint fuzziness in SD picture giving a real smoothness to the picture.
2) Block NR - Smooths out the blocky looking artifacts from compression BUT can create an odd looking shifting artifact (hard to describe) on smaller objects in the picture. Once noticed, I found it to be quite annoying so I leave this one off.
3) Random NR) Clears up random noise they say. I leave it on and don't notice a difference one way or another.

Since there are 3 settings you can customize you can set them differently for different circumstances and easily cycle through them to pick the best one for the current situation. This player is really amazing.

The above suggestions are based on the necessity of having your monitor setup correctly; contrast, color, brightness, sharpness, etc. If your monitor is not setup right then adjustments on your player are pretty much meaningless.

Hope this helps. Enjoy!

[bettzysdaddy]

Thanks Chris, I was hoping to get it for $225 but a few late bidders pushed up the price and I ended up getting it for $245. The seller is local so I saved on shipping, plus I really don't want it being transported by FedEx or UPS

Time to look up some picture settings for the Reon upscaling chip. The 5K only has basic settings.

So you're the guy who outbid me at the last 4 seconds!!!

Nice job though. I asked the seller about the box and he will include it in the buy. I was hoping to get this as a back up but I'll wait to find another deal.