Why not XDE/HD DVD?

[browny75]

While filling the follow-up HD DVD on line questionaire, I was struck by the question that insinuated that Toshiba (or some other member of the HD Forum)might begin producing Hi Def movies on Standard DVD's - disks that would display in HD if you played them in an HD DVD player.

While that caught my attention as something I'd be interested in - it left me wondering why Toshiba wouldn't be developing HD DVD playback functionality on their new XDE upscaler player? It would seem to be a tempting choice for existing HD DVD owners next player consideration - ie. buy an XDE (for what is now being reported by some sources as superior image enhancing for your DVD's), that would also be able to play HD DVD in Hi Def?

[The Operative]

You pretty much had that with the HD-A3 player.....cheap player with HD playback and SD upscaling.

[browny75]

Theoretical XDE/HD DVD vs. using an A3....

I was wondering if some of the early tester reports, stating better upscaling results from the XDE vs HD DVD or Blu ray, were accurate. That may be of some interest to current HD DVD owners - when they think about their next player purchase?

http://news.digitaltrends.com/talk-b...r-than-blu-ray

[mcblob]

2 reasons, Hd dvd is dead, and it would push the price of the player up

[orac2003]

Why not combine the XDE with HD DVD and the DVD 2.0 stuff they were talking about.

Some of the DVD 2.0 features sounded alot like HD DVD features. Why not "relaunch" HD DVD as DVD 2.0? If you were to take the cheapest HD DVD player, and give it the better upscaler, you could have a DVD 2.0 player with the XDE chip, that could also play HD DVDs...

Then-get those twin format discs working (not combos-the triple layer ones that had SD and HD layers):
issue DVD 2.0 discs as 2 layers devoted to SD, and 1 15GB HD DVD layer.
Encode movies in 720p, so that they fit on the 15GB, and basically use this as your DVD 2.0 format.

If you owned a DVD 2.0 player, you could get the advanced features of HD DVD, and the upscaler would only be upscaling from 720p, not 480. And as a bonus-it would play your old HD DVDs.

If you only owned a regular DVD player the DVD 2.0 discs would work as a normal DVD would.

And if you owned an older HD DVD player, you could buy these discs and at least get 720p hi-def, rather than upscaling from SD...

Maybe you could get some studios to release such discs instead of regular DVDs, and leave blu-rays to the top-end (1080p native) market.

[The_Doctor]

They could.
I remember hearing that some people thought the XA4 (if it had been built) would have some sort of upconversion better than the xa2 offered. So they might have combined the two (back when they were pushing HD DVD)

but I don't think so, they only decided on this (XDE) after they pulled support for HD, I think they saw the potential for this technology to hurt HD adoption and were going to hold it back, adding it only to Televisions as a built in extra.
So now they figure screw it and if it hurts blu-ray great! If it helps the consumer be happy with their HDTV and dvd all the better.

In the future could they combine the two? maybe, i think they might add HD to high end XDe player with cell chip to help justify the cost (whoever is buying this instead of blu is their die hard base and would pay more for HD support). Depends on the price of blue lasers and if they have a surplus laying around. If Toshiba makes a blu player I can see them adding XDE and HD to it.

[browny75]

Hey Orac2003 - your post threw out a bunch of possibilities, and many of them seem to found their way into the second on line questionaire I just filled out. Toshiba must be strategizing the low end of the market around some of these possibilities.

[junglalien]

IMHO:

XDE is an overhyped POS. Do you really think a $150 DVD player is going to make your SD DVDs look like HD?

Here are some REAL REVIEWS.

"It isn't working out too well for me at this point. My Mitsubishi is
65", and I think that may be the problem. The enhancement may be more
effective on smaller displays.
I've tested Vertical Limit (Superbit), Hellboy, xXx (Superbit) and Bee
Movie.
Vertical Limit and Hellboy were noticeably more grainy with the Sharp
and Color enhancements. xXx was having pixel errors that aren't
present on my other two upconverters.
Bee Movie looks good with color enhancement, but the edges are not
crisp. There are actually blurry lines that are showing up around
objects that are similar to my other upconverters."

"You are experiencing what I found while test driving this player last
week. It works good on 42" and smaller set...but once you try and
punch it up on a bigger screen, the flaws and limitations of XDE
become visible, rather quickly. Specifically the softening of the
background image while the processor concentrates on any motion on
foreground objects."

CONSUMERS BEWARE! TBS = Astroturfing, undercover marketing and deception at its worst.

[bruceames]

junglalien, don't hate on the player because of TBS. They don't have anything to do with it. The XDE player is just a DVD player, and by the vast majority of REAL reviews, it is the best DVD player on the planet. It doesn't make SD look like HD DVD or BLu-ray HD, but it looks good enough to make the $150 price point seem like a bargain. I have the player, and if the XA2 or Oppo PQ is a 6 out of 10 (with HD DVD/BD being a 10) then the XDE would be between a 6.5 or a 7.0, depending on what you were watching. This is not a POS and you will hear a lot more about this player as people realize that this is a killer machine for the price.

[junglalien]

I trust your opinion Bruce but where are these other reviews? It hasn't been out long enough has it? I don't put any faith in fabricated ones at amazon.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by junglalien

I trust your opinion Bruce but where are these other reviews? It hasn't been out long enough has it? I don't put any faith in fabricated ones at amazon.

I don't know which ones are fabricated on Amazon, but I think most if not all are legit (although a few may be exaggerated due to owner's exuberance). I've been reading the AVS thread (DVD player section) and the HighDefForum thread. Here's a member review from that thread. Also, another review by Rob Enderle (although not a professional review, he does say he'll be using it instead of his Oppo). I haven't read a lot of thorough reviews, but about 10-20 or so positive feedback from owners. It's surprising though that no really professional reviews have surfaced. It could be because the player looks too good for just having a Zoran chip in it and the expert reviewers are scratching their heads to figure out why.

[WickyWoo]

Also, another review by Rob Enderle (although not a professional review, he does say he'll be using it instead of his Oppo).

Hmm, Rob Enderle liking Toshiba products again....wonder why?

Rob (Enderle) sits on the advisory councils for Lenovo, Toshiba, AMD, HP, Dell, Philips, Trusted Computing Group, and the Lifeboat Foundation.

http://www.enderlegroup.com/profile_rob.htm

[junglalien]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Hmm, Rob Enderle liking Toshiba products again....wonder why?



http://www.enderlegroup.com/profile_rob.htm

I'm pretty sure he uses the pseudonym Bill Cortner on his astroturfing projects and viral marketing campaigns on web forums. http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0052671/

Rob's hobbies include Sporting Clays, PC Modding, Science Fiction, Home Automation, and Computer Gaming.

[chris gerhard]

Originally Posted by browny75

While filling the follow-up HD DVD on line questionaire, I was struck by the question that insinuated that Toshiba (or some other member of the HD Forum)might begin producing Hi Def movies on Standard DVD's - disks that would display in HD if you played them in an HD DVD player.

While that caught my attention as something I'd be interested in - it left me wondering why Toshiba wouldn't be developing HD DVD playback functionality on their new XDE upscaler player? It would seem to be a tempting choice for existing HD DVD owners next player consideration - ie. buy an XDE (for what is now being reported by some sources as superior image enhancing for your DVD's), that would also be able to play HD DVD in Hi Def?

Adding the cost of HD DVD to this player would be incredibly stupid. HD DVD owners are used to buying HD DVD players at very low prices and Toshiba is marketing XDE at a profit, not a loss, like was done with HD DVD. The smartest thing Toshiba can do is offer great DVD playback at a great price, cost plus profit, and see how the market reacts. There is no shortage of HD DVD players for the small group that wants players therefore no market for HD DVD at cost plus profit, Toshiba won't be adding HD DVD to XDE or SRT players.

I do think this player is good at $150 but don't believe there is any big market for it. The improvement over other methods of DVD playback including Silicon Optix and Anchor Bay Technologies based players is not great if at all. People that want true HD will buy Blu-ray and those that want DVD will settle for good DVD playback at a lower price or continue using their current DVD players for the most part. This is a good product to help Toshiba a litte with their goals for DVD. What impact it will have isn't clear.

Chris

[The_Doctor]

I already thought the xa2 did a great job. If this XDE does only slightly better and can be region free then I'll be happy, if just to save wear and tear on my XA2.
But I'm going to hold off until the prices come down or they come out with a Cell chip player.