Why not XDE/HD DVD?

[Josh Z]

Originally Posted by junglalien

How does that work if your display is calibrated? Why would you want to change color for instance? I thought I read somewhere only one of the 3 does any good.

Keep in mind that I am not commenting on the validity of these claims. That said, the claim is that the processor will "intelligently" analyze the picture and determine which colors can be boosted and which to leave alone. The belief is that this will simulate HD's greater color depth in an SD source. (Correction: I meant to say HD's greater color gamut, not color depth.)

As I said, I'm approaching this with skepticism. It sounds like a bad idea to me.

[The_Doctor]

Decent reviews. I think Toshiba could do better with a better processor
I think tosh may be holding back something for their next upgrade Xde, or DVD 2. Get people used to the idea slow blu and then introduce a way to do it better.
I don't think I want one with a zorn chip

PC World XDE

Toshiba XD-E500

Beyond 1080p: Toshiba talks up higher definition
Says it's ready to serve up 4K and 8K TVs

Toshiba XD-E500 upscaling DVD player review
Will this save you upgrading to Blu-ray?

[Josh Z]

Originally Posted by Josh Z

Basically, the new controls amount to three things: Sharpness, Color, and Contrast. These are each on/off settings. There are no gradations.

Unless I'm missing something, this is also an either/or decision. You can only turn on one of these enhancements at a time. If you enhance sharpness, color and contrast go back to their defaults. Likewise, turning on color enhancement resets sharpness. It's like the processor isn't powerful enough to do two things at once.

Edit: OK, it appears that I'm partially wrong here. Turning on any one of the enhancements automatically turns on Sharpness. The only way to turn off Sharpness is to turn all enhancements off. However, you cannot use both Color and Contrast simultaneously. The choices are:

- Sharpness alone
- Color plus Sharpness
- Contrast plus Sharpness
- Everything off

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Josh Z

Keep in mind that I am not commenting on the validity of these claims. That said, the claim is that the processor will "intelligently" analyze the picture and determine which colors can be boosted and which to leave alone. The belief is that this will simulate HD's greater color depth in an SD source.

I have read this several times now (i.e. that HD had greater color depth). But to the best of my knowledge, neither BD nor HD-DVD support more than 24-bit color, which is what DVD uses as well.

[Josh Z]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

I have read this several times now (i.e. that HD had greater color depth). But to the best of my knowledge, neither BD nor HD-DVD support more than 24-bit color, which is what DVD uses as well.

Color depth was the wrong choice of words on my part. HD has an extended color gamut (Rec 701 vs. Rec 609). You are correct that they have the same color depth, which is actually only 8-bits.

[Josh Z]

OK, I spent quite a bit of time playing around with this last night. Long story short: For $150, it's a decent upconverter. But it's not magic and the claims that it makes a DVD "near High-Def" are frankly absurd.

For deinterlacing, the player failed most of the jaggies tests on the HQV test disc, but did OK with the "Mixed 3:2 with scrolling titles" test, which is traditionally very difficult for most deinterlacers. I didn't see many problems with jaggies on "real world" content, but probably because the player applies softening to difficult cadences to mask jaggies. The 1080p24 option worked pretty well with all of the film-based DVDs I tried.

As for the picture enhancements, they're a mixed bag. "Color" makes everything look garish and cartoonish. I defaulted to the "Contrast" setting, which looked the best overall.

The player has a mediocre MPEG decoder. With all enhancements turned off, it has a very soft picture. Turning on any of the enhancements automatically applies a moderate amount of NR and the "Sharpness" filter. "Sharpness" amounts to a pretty straightforward edge enhancement application. It adds quite a bit of ringing. Anyone who says they don't see ringing with this player either has a very small screen or must be legally blind.

Overall, the player does make the picture look "crisper" than other DVD players without edge enhancement filters, but it does not generate any "Extreme Detail" and the ringing is bothersome in the background of shots or whenever text appears on screen. I was able to get nearly the exact same results with my Oppo 980H by turning on Edge Enhancement in my video processor, which is not something I often recommend. I saw nothing special in the way this player applies its edge enhancement over other upconverting players with similar settings.

I compared parts of Hellboy on DVD and Blu-ray, then Hot Fuzz on DVD and HD DVD. There was absolutely no mistaking the upconverted picture for anything like real High-Def. It was a night-and-day difference in both cases, with the DVDs looking soft and artifacty. The player does better with animation than live action, but honestly how difficult is it to make a Pixar disc look good?

Also, whenever you pause the image, the player only displays a half-resolution field scaled to fill the screen, not the whole original frame. This makes DVD menus look awful, and makes it impossible to look at a resolution test pattern to see exactly how much ringing the filters add.

The player can be made region-free with a remote control hack and will play PAL discs, but it forcibly converts PAL to NTSC prior to scaling and does a horrible job of it. PAL discs were filled with jaggies and aliasing, and lost a significant amount of detail. The player is useless with PAL.

In other words, XDE is more hype than substance. I'm not much impressed.

[vinnie97]

Gimmicky, that's how it's appeared since the announcement. Thanks for adding your observations to the pile. I hope it busts.

[The_Doctor]

I think color mode is not supposed to be used with everything, only certain things benefits form it.

I think this release is a gimmick, the idea is sound but not having a cell possessor to truly retards it.

PAl play back is almost always screwed up, those that would do it right like the XA2 need a tv that can do 50fps. Most people will not care if it perfect they just like being ably to play anything from anywhere

Is there a list of TV sold in the us that can do the universal signals too? (576p, 1080 50fps) Used to be some philips that did 576p and 1080p 50fps but the newer models don't

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by chris gerhard

Wow, you aren't given to exaggeration are you? I will make you a deal, I will trade two XD-500 players new in the box for one Denon DVD-5910 new in the box. I would say any review that indicates this is the best DVD player on the planet isn't a real review.

Chris

We are all given to exaggeration on occasion, but my remark is based on the PQ significantly better than the XA2 in my opinion. I have not seen the other upscalers, but from what I have heard, the difference between the top upscalers in the market is not significant. Anyway, I meant PQ when I said 'best', not which one has the highest resale value.

[Josh Z]

Originally Posted by bruceames

We are all given to exaggeration on occasion, but my remark is based on the PQ significantly better than the XA2 in my opinion.

Bruce, in the XA2, turn Mosquito Noise Reduction on and Edge Enhancement to the maximum setting of 2. That will give you the same results as the XDE.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Josh Z

Bruce, in the XA2, turn Mosquito Noise Reduction on and Edge Enhancement to the maximum setting of 2. That will give you the same results as the XDE.

Yeah, that's where I have it, and the results are close. I was confused before because I compared two non-equal copies of Ghostbusters (transfers were different but the menus were the same) and of course the better tranfer made the XDE look much better by comparison.

[Josh Z]

The XA2 does better with the EE set at 1. The 2 setting is too strong and adds too much ringing.

Unfortunately, the intensity is not adjustable on the XD-E500.

[junglalien]

What is ringing? I don't care for the picture adjustments on my DV805. I think DVDs look better with everything off. Like I think you said it makes text looks weird especially.

[CaptainCanuck]

Originally Posted by Josh Z

OK, I spent quite a bit of time playing around with this last night. Long story short: For $150, it's a decent upconverter. But it's not magic and the claims that it makes a DVD "near High-Def" are frankly absurd.

For deinterlacing, the player failed most of the jaggies tests on the HQV test disc, but did OK with the "Mixed 3:2 with scrolling titles" test, which is traditionally very difficult for most deinterlacers. I didn't see many problems with jaggies on "real world" content, but probably because the player applies softening to difficult cadences to mask jaggies. The 1080p24 option worked pretty well with all of the film-based DVDs I tried.

As for the picture enhancements, they're a mixed bag. "Color" makes everything look garish and cartoonish. I defaulted to the "Contrast" setting, which looked the best overall.

The player has a mediocre MPEG decoder. With all enhancements turned off, it has a very soft picture. Turning on any of the enhancements automatically applies a moderate amount of NR and the "Sharpness" filter. "Sharpness" amounts to a pretty straightforward edge enhancement application. It adds quite a bit of ringing. Anyone who says they don't see ringing with this player either has a very small screen or must be legally blind.

Overall, the player does make the picture look "crisper" than other DVD players without edge enhancement filters, but it does not generate any "Extreme Detail" and the ringing is bothersome in the background of shots or whenever text appears on screen. I was able to get nearly the exact same results with my Oppo 980H by turning on Edge Enhancement in my video processor, which is not something I often recommend. I saw nothing special in the way this player applies its edge enhancement over other upconverting players with similar settings.

I compared parts of Hellboy on DVD and Blu-ray, then Hot Fuzz on DVD and HD DVD. There was absolutely no mistaking the upconverted picture for anything like real High-Def. It was a night-and-day difference in both cases, with the DVDs looking soft and artifacty. The player does better with animation than live action, but honestly how difficult is it to make a Pixar disc look good?

Also, whenever you pause the image, the player only displays a half-resolution field scaled to fill the screen, not the whole original frame. This makes DVD menus look awful, and makes it impossible to look at a resolution test pattern to see exactly how much ringing the filters add.

The player can be made region-free with a remote control hack and will play PAL discs, but it forcibly converts PAL to NTSC prior to scaling and does a horrible job of it. PAL discs were filled with jaggies and aliasing, and lost a significant amount of detail. The player is useless with PAL.

In other words, XDE is more hype than substance. I'm not much impressed.

That's what i figured it would be. Toshiba hasn't been developing upconverting chips as a specialty for very long so to come out of the blue with a 'wonderchip' just after they failed at hd dvd was too much of a miracle to be true.
I've pretty much lost all respect for them as a company and will not be buying anything else from them.

[Josh Z]

Originally Posted by junglalien

What is ringing?

http://www.videophile.info/Guide_EE/Page_01.htm