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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Seattle, WA
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    Default 1080p/24hz vs 1080p/60hz ?


    Hi, I am new here and I was not sure where to post this, feel free to move it to the correct forum.

    Anyhow, I recently bought a new receiver, an Onkyo TX-NR3008 and it is upscaling my 1080p/24hz blu-rays to 1080p/60hz. What is this upscaling all about? In other words I don't really know what the 24hz is all about to start with. thanks
  2. #2
    1080p 24 is the industry standard resolution for theatrical films so you should either not upscale the signal from your blu ray player at all or set your output from your receiver to 1080p 24 output to match the blu ray .
    You have a high end receiver with a very good upscaler in it.
    Blu rays don't typically benefit much from upscaling because of the quality of the signal but who knows.
    You can test and see if it looks better or not.
    For your regular dvds set the receiver to upscale to 1080p 24 as well as this will make them look better. Upscaling is provided in receivers primarily for dvds and other formats with lower resolutions than blu rays.
  3. #3
    1080p24 -> 1080p60 is NOT upscaling. It is 2:3 pulldown. No frames are resized (scaling), and no new frames are reassembled (deinterlacing). All that's happening is that the 24 are being repeated in a manner to get to 60. It works like this:
    Original: A, B, C, D (x6)
    New sequence: A,A,B,B,B,C,C,D,D,D (x6)

    That's all it is.

    If you TV can display at a multiple of 24 Hz--it is a plasma (with 72 or 96 Hz mode), or a 120/240 Hz LCD--then you don't want this to happen. 2:3 pulldown introduces some judder, most noticeable when the camera pans over a still background. If your TV cannot display 24 Hz at a multiple, then it doesn't matter where 2:3 pulldown is done when you start with a progressive source. It's absolutely impossible to mess up. No cadence detection is necessary, etc.

    For your regular dvds set the receiver to upscale to 1080p 24 as well as this will make them look better.
    Unlikely it will take interlaced sources and covert them to 24 Hz. 480p24 is not supported on HDMI, so your player would have to put out 480p60 (or 480i60, if it will support that over HDMI--otherwise you must use component).

    A few Blu-ray players will output DVD at 24 Hz, but it's pretty shaky. It's very error prone and often makes things look worse. Oppo recently dropped this from the BDP-93 due to questionable performance. The Panasonics used to offer this as well, but I'm not sure if they still do.
  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Seattle, WA
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    6
    I have a Pioneer Elite PRO-151FD that has been professionally calibrated.....so should I just set the Onkyo to through or what? I need to read the manual. thanks guys.
  5. #5
    I looked at the manual. It's pretty terrible and not clear at all what it does. It makes it sound like if you put it at 1080p24, it will convert everything to 1080p24--this will result in dropped frames and incredibly jerky playback when you watch everything except BDs. I'm not sure that's what it does, or if 1080p24 just means it allows for 1080p24 signals.

    Try setting it to Auto.

    You did set the BD player to output at 24 Hz, right? There's usually two settings: one for 1080p and one for 1080p24.
  6. #6
    I have a midlevel denon receiver and it lets me assign a name and output characteristics to every input on the receiver so hopefully your onkyo will do the same.
    That way you can set the blu ray input for pass through and the other inputs for upscaling.
  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Seattle, WA
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    6
    I actually had it set to Auto to begin with and when the input was 1080p/24 the output would be 1080p/60 ....I had thought that was an unconverted pictures.

    I went ahead and set it to Through and the output is now 1080p/24. While on Auto and watching cable(hdtv 1080i) the input was 24bit color, output was 30bit.....was this an upgraded picture? I am pretty certain that the Resolution settings are global though so I guess it does not matter. And I have no clue as to why the output was 1080p/60 on the Auto setting.

    from the manual.....


    Resolution .....
    You can specify the output resolution for the HDMI output and COMPONENT VIDEO MONITOR OUT and have the AV receiver upconvert the picture resolution as neces- sary to match the resolution supported by your TV.

    1.Through*1: Select this to pass video through the AV receiver at the same resolution and with no conversion.
    2.Auto*2: Select this to have the AV receiver automatically convert video at resolutions not supported by your TV.
    3.480p (480p/576p): Select this for 480p or 576p output and video con- version as necessary.
    4.720p: Select this for 720p output and video conversion as necessary.
    5.1080i: Select this for 1080i output and video conversion as necessary.
    6.1080p*2: Select this for 1080p output and video conversion as necessary.
    7.1080p/24*2: Select this for 1080p output at 24 frames per second and video conversion as necessary.
    8.Source: Output will be according to the resolution level which was set in the “Picture Adjust” setting (➔ 60).

    Tip
    • The “Resolution” setting is set respectively of main, sub, and analog.

    Note
    • If the “Monitor Out” setting is set to “Both”, this setting is fixed at “Auto”.

    • Depending on the incoming video signal, video playback may not be smooth or the vertical resolution may be lowered. In this case select other than “1080p/24”.

    *1 PC IN (Analog RGB) input signal is output at 480p (480p/ 576p), 720p, 1080i resolution when the “Monitor Out” set- ting is set to “Analog” (➔ 47) and the “Resolution” setting is set to “Through”.

    *2 These settings are not available when the “Monitor Out” set- ting is set to “Analog” (➔ 47).
  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    1
    I would encourage parents to buy this for their children, especially children younger than 1 year through Dvdshop888 new and not through the company.However, when my son was about 2 years, it became very tired of these DVDs, and now prefer Brainy Baby.
  9. #9
    I have a related question if anyone knows.

    So I just got a new Samsung 40inch LED 3D TV 120Hz. This is the first HDTV where it has shown the Hz on the input, and got me somewhat confused. Both my Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 say "1920x1080 at 60Hz" when they start up. I specifically remember the person at Best Buy I was talking to about the TV saying "make sure you turn on the game mode when playing video games, it should help the performance". I do not see any options for a game mode and I am also unclear why the default setting for both of these is at 60Hz when the TV is capable of 120. Is there some option to up the Hz to 120 or is it supposed to be at 60? I guess I am unclear why everything I read on the internet said to get a 120Hz+ TV when the only settings I have seen so far are at 60Hz or less.

    There is also something in the PS3 display options about a Blu Ray 24Hz option .... do I want to select that option, or leave it on auto, was somewhat confused by the 24Hz discussion above.

    Thanks for any help you guys can offer. I love my new TV so far, but the whole Hz thing is boggling my mind right now.
  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    296
    Game mode on you samsung just turns off all the extra filter/processing the TV does. Unlike moves or cable/TV games require the image to be consistant with the rendering so you won't have input lag. Which it really means is that if there is lag, what you see has already happen a second ago and that can mean winning and losing in games.

    I myself always turn off all those features off no matter the TV brand. I like to watch every source as it was intended.

    For the PS3 if you set it to auto it will change it to 24hz if your TV and movie supports it. All blu-rays support 24hz minus a few like documentry and such.

    Sorry for the bad gramer, using my phone and I really don't want to go and retype anything.
    PS3 160GB, Xbox 360 S 4G w/250 GB, Sony KDL-46EX500, Sony HT-SS360 5.1, 250+ blurays
  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    397
    Don't worry, Dillman. Google search HDD's HD Advisor column, which has covered this a couple times, for more details, but all HDTVs always run at their native Hz rate. In your case, that's 120Hz. Anything you play on your TV, from cable to DVD to games to BDs, will run at 120Hz...because that's all your TV can do.

    What you're seeing when you start up your various systems is THEIR native refresh rate; your TV is then converting that in 120Hz.

    Faster refresh rates were introduced into LCDs (both edge lit, like yours, and back lit) to deal with strobing (and other) effects during certain viewing situations. Also, 120hz and 240hz, etc TVs are better for 1080/24p content (like Blu-ray movies) playback because 24 neatly divides into 120, rather than needing a pulldown along the lines of what Jables described above.

    Cheers and good luck!
  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Hoston
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    In my opinion, the 1080p/60hz must have higher quality than the 1080p/24hz. However, everything has two aspects, the higher definition your video is, the bigger size your video may be.
  13. #13
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    Nov 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karmar View Post
    In my opinion, the 1080p/60hz must have higher quality than the 1080p/24hz. However, everything has two aspects, the higher definition your video is, the bigger size your video may be.
    WTF? Is this spam?
    Quote Originally Posted by twonunpackmule View Post
    You don't keep friends who use low resolutions.
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    Sometimes I don't speak right. But still I know what I'm talking about...
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Favelle View Post
    WTF? Is this spam?
    I hope so, because I couldn't understand it.
    Winner of the 2014 "coworkers are looking at me for apparently laughing at nothing" award.
    Quote Originally Posted by thejnc View Post
    Seriously, change your sig. My coworkers are looking at me for apparently laughing at nothing.
  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Palmer View Post
    Don't worry, Dillman. Google search HDD's HD Advisor column, which has covered this a couple times, for more details, but all HDTVs always run at their native Hz rate. In your case, that's 120Hz. Anything you play on your TV, from cable to DVD to games to BDs, will run at 120Hz...because that's all your TV can do.

    What you're seeing when you start up your various systems is THEIR native refresh rate; your TV is then converting that in 120Hz.

    Faster refresh rates were introduced into LCDs (both edge lit, like yours, and back lit) to deal with strobing (and other) effects during certain viewing situations. Also, 120hz and 240hz, etc TVs are better for 1080/24p content (like Blu-ray movies) playback because 24 neatly divides into 120, rather than needing a pulldown along the lines of what Jables described above.

    Cheers and good luck!
    Thanks for making that clear...My Samsung LED shows the 60hz when I switch from one source to another. My Tv can do 120hz as well, I always wondered why it said 60hz! I thought maybe there was a setting to change that...good to know it is running at 120hz

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