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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston007 View Post
    CD would pay $599 for the Scorpio and say it's a BARGAIN
    If Microsoft wants to charge $600 for the Scorpio, I would be honored and privileged to divest myself of $1800 to own 3 of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twonunpackmule View Post
    Uncharted peaked with 2 and each one just gets worse.

    I'll say this...I actually finished 3, I couldn't bring myself to finish 4. It was so boring.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CorruptedDragon View Post
    If Microsoft wants to charge $600 for the Scorpio, I would be honored and privileged to divest myself of $1800 to own 3 of them.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdinred View Post
    Come on now.. 1080p gaming is pretty great already.. 12GB at that bandwidth?
    Let's get more info on this then. Is the "memory" reading above system ram or gpu ram? Or a combination of the two?
    Still thinking PC market. With Windows 8/10 people used to think 8GB was enough system ram, then it crept to 12 and now there are games that suggest 16. This number is going to get bigger. In April of 2017 even I would not consider building a system with only 12 GB or ram that I would expect to last the next 5 years or more. Again, the price difference between 12 and 16 has got to be minuscule, especially to MS.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krawk View Post
    Let's get more info on this then. Is the "memory" reading above system ram or gpu ram? Or a combination of the two?
    Still thinking PC market. With Windows 8/10 people used to think 8GB was enough system ram, then it crept to 12 and now there are games that suggest 16. This number is going to get bigger. In April of 2017 even I would not consider building a system with only 12 GB or ram that I would expect to last the next 5 years or more. Again, the price difference between 12 and 16 has got to be minuscule, especially to MS.
    The console doesn't have all the overhead that a PC has though either. 5.5gb has been fine for the ps4/x1 so far. 8 will be even better with Scorpio.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twonunpackmule View Post
    Uncharted peaked with 2 and each one just gets worse.

    I'll say this...I actually finished 3, I couldn't bring myself to finish 4. It was so boring.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM View Post
    It makes perfect sense if we're done with the typical 5-6 year console cycle. If we've now moved to the tablet/phone style regular hardware update cycle, this is perfectly logical.
    I don't know that the paradigm shift has hit, at least not in the consumer psyche. TechBeat had an article on the Scorpio and a good deal of the article hit on this point (as did the usual comments from the industry analysts, pachter etc al). MS may market one thing, but I think consumers (probably rightly) see this as a very late gen entry into the mix of a console. That's okay, but "a very late gen entry of a very expensive console" is not likely to do well.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM View Post
    It makes perfect sense if we're done with the typical 5-6 year console cycle. If we've now moved to the tablet/phone style regular hardware update cycle, this is perfectly logical.
    I think MS marketing would love to think we're there, but I don't think we're there. Consoles still aren't phones, because there's really no need for them to be.

    TechBeat had an interesting article on the Scorpio and how it's good kit, but had a question about its timing, pricing and whether it's needed (it mentioned lack of software that causes a need for Scorpio). Then it had a ton of thoughts from analysts around the industry (including Pachter, although he's largely irrelevant like always) and it seemed like the general idea was that this was coming pretty late in the gen and that Sony could counter by just releasing PS5 in a year or two. Switch released this year, if PS5 comes holiday 2018 -- they get the 1 year jump (or MS tries to match and scorpio is very expensive (if released near $500) and extremely short lived). In any of these scenarios, it seems like Scorpio is either very niche, or if not, very ill-timed, and MS gets leapfrogged.
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  7. #37
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    Because they are not on a yearly upgrade cycle, I don't think that mindset will "hit" at all. I think it will be a slow evolution over time.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger3920 View Post
    I think MS marketing would love to think we're there, but I don't think we're there. Consoles still aren't phones, because there's really no need for them to be.

    TechBeat had an interesting article on the Scorpio and how it's good kit, but had a question about its timing, pricing and whether it's needed (it mentioned lack of software that causes a need for Scorpio). Then it had a ton of thoughts from analysts around the industry (including Pachter, although he's largely irrelevant like always) and it seemed like the general idea was that this was coming pretty late in the gen and that Sony could counter by just releasing PS5 in a year or two. Switch released this year, if PS5 comes holiday 2018 -- they get the 1 year jump (or MS tries to match and scorpio is very expensive (if released near $500) and extremely short lived). In any of these scenarios, it seems like Scorpio is either very niche, or if not, very ill-timed, and MS gets leapfrogged.
    There is no way Sony is going to kill their momentum and release an entire new system in 2018. I'd love to see the backlash from their customers though!
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    Quote Originally Posted by twonunpackmule View Post
    Uncharted peaked with 2 and each one just gets worse.

    I'll say this...I actually finished 3, I couldn't bring myself to finish 4. It was so boring.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CorruptedDragon View Post
    There is no way Sony is going to kill their momentum and release an entire new system in 2018. I'd love to see the backlash from their customers though!
    Sure, they're "winning" and have no desire to move off the king of the hill spot -- but sitting still too long means you lose king of the hill anyway after awhile. 2019 is probably the more likely start of "next gen" than 2018 (although starting to leak strong rumors of it near this holiday season when MS is trying to excite folks about scorpio would be a pretty big marketing coup) -- but even then, if "next gen starts" holiday 2019, dropping $500 on a current gen console really feels like a waste. That's why I think they try and price scorpio away from that and get it down toward $300-$350 asap.
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  10. #40
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    [QUOTE="Badger3920;2609862"]Consoles still aren't phones, because there's really no need for them to be./QUOTE]

    I forgot to reply to this part.

    There is a critical need for consoles to be like phones: Forward compatability. If Sony/MS can require devs to support the base model consoles for ten years while they continue to put out upgraded hardware, then it gives players more flexibility on when they upgrade. It also means they don't have to spend billions on a console launch event that could go bad for them. Resetting the ecosystem every 6 years just doesn't seem like a sustainable business model anymore.

    They put out a third X86 Playstation in 2019 that jumps a bit ahead of Scorpio, and they have consoles at $199, $299, and $399. They require that games to run on all three, but devs can dumb down for the base model (PS4) once the third hardware comes out. Then in 2022 when the 4th hardware bump comes out, they no longer require PS4 support, and the Pro becomes the "min spec". In 2025, the same thing happens to the Pro.

    That way the have a rolling 10 year window of hardware support, and they never have to invest in a major console launch.
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  11. #41
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    [QUOTE=RM;2609871]
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger3920 View Post
    Consoles still aren't phones, because there's really no need for them to be./QUOTE]

    I forgot to reply to this part.

    There is a critical need for consoles to be like phones: Forward compatability. If Sony/MS can require devs to support the base model consoles for ten years while they continue to put out upgraded hardware, then it gives players more flexibility on when they upgrade. It also means they don't have to spend billions on a console launch event that could go bad for them. Resetting the ecosystem every 6 years just doesn't seem like a sustainable business model anymore.

    They put out a third X86 Playstation in 2019 that jumps a bit ahead of Scorpio, and they have consoles at $199, $299, and $399. They require that games to run on all three, but devs can dumb down for the base model (PS4) once the third hardware comes out. Then in 2022 when the 4th hardware bump comes out, they no longer require PS4 support, and the Pro becomes the "min spec". In 2025, the same thing happens to the Pro.

    That way the have a rolling 10 year window of hardware support, and they never have to invest in a major console launch.
    That's the whole thing right there. We will see them use the same sort of teach going forward (Sony/MS) so it really is just incremental upgrades...just like a PC!. They will want to keep their existing library intact. Even though they might call it a PS5, it won't be an entirely new technology that isn't built upon the old.

    I'ts going to be ....just like a PC.
    Even Sponsored by Crony Mule admits:
    Quote Originally Posted by twonunpackmule View Post
    Uncharted peaked with 2 and each one just gets worse.

    I'll say this...I actually finished 3, I couldn't bring myself to finish 4. It was so boring.

  12. #42
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    Im hearing $599, are you guys hearing that?

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston007 View Post
    Im hearing $599, are you guys hearing that?
    No chance!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Foundry
    The question boils down to this: is 4K really worth it? And the answer to that is pretty straightforward - it definitely is. The detail increase is profound in its own right and moves into a different level entirely with HDR engaged. Link

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston007 View Post
    Im hearing $599, are you guys hearing that?
    $449 or even $399 is likely

    Wouldn't even doom Scorpio at $599 but would certainly put all bragging on graphics mattering again
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  15. #45
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    4K/60 Ultra settings running on Scorpio.. still some headroom on the GPU.

    Forza Motorsport 6 Apex on PC can be fully invoked on Scorpio. Turn 10 literally ramped up everything to ultra and it just worked, with the game retaining a 4K60 performance level
    ...
    "The crazy story here is that we've gone over our PC ultra settings and for everything that's GPU-related, we've been able to max it - and that's what we're running at, 88 per cent,"
    Link
    also:

    they're keen to point out that despite Turn 10 running one of the most optimal game engines in the business, others are getting similar results. I'm also told that key developers have had access to hardware on site at the Microsoft campus.

    Chris's experience is not atypical of what we've seen from partners we've had in - varying, different degrees of results but all positive. It's been great," says Kevin Gammill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Foundry
    The question boils down to this: is 4K really worth it? And the answer to that is pretty straightforward - it definitely is. The detail increase is profound in its own right and moves into a different level entirely with HDR engaged. Link

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