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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuco33 View Post
    Hot damn red is shooktzed!!

    1st off I wasn't singling you out over this because similar is true across a couple of you chronez but yes I did use your Ace Combat example as a good one for one of my points. In AC games you have the full cockpit view that VR would work very well with but in racing games like my Kinect head tracking example in Forza you only need to look left and right. Wheel users today cannot view side to side or into a corner because wheels don't have the 2nd analog stick that pad users have. There actually was a need for this, albeit most likely barely used and probably why MS/T10 dropped it altogether. You don't fully turn your head to the right to see the wall on the right in Forza, your input is only a small head turn where your eyes are still focused on the screen. This is a common misconception that many on here think somehow to fully look to the right you have to turn your head fully to the right, but note that this is EXACTLY how the PC sims with head tracking works. So no, you are wrong here.
    The point though is that you are all uber excited over VR with AC because you can have better range of visibility. Let's face it, this is all that VR AC will bring.. and it is the exact same thing with Kinect/Forza was pointed out like I did again and somehow you don't see the connection. I could, but I won't, quote you and mich and badger and many others who continuously thrashed kinect and any argument I made over it, especially over head tracking, and now some of you have mini erections over imagining the possibilities with PSVR. I'm sorry, I keep laughing at this... And I 110% get that the tech is completely different but there are actual similarities, some of which I pointed out already. When Sony does it though... we CAN imagine the possibilities!!

    <more nonsense omitted>
    OK -- so this is a classic, standard, beautiful cuco33 idiotic wall of text. In it, you completely failed to address either of the two points I (and Badger before me, and I before that) put forth. While failing at this, you threw in a bunch of irrelevant mumbo-jumbo that no one cares about.

    It's very simple.

    I praised the idea of playing AC7 with VR. To show hypocrisy both of the following are required by definition:

    - You MUST show also me criticizing Kinect Forza head tracking.

    NOTE: You have not done this yet.

    If you cannot or don't want to do this, you MUST show some other specific person praising the idea of playing AC7 with VR; and also that same specific person shitting on the idea of Kinect Forza head tracking.

    NOTE: You have not done this yet. You have only responded to MY anticipation of AC7 VR, which sounds to me like it could be sweet; and unnamed vague attackers of Forza Kinect head-tracking. You MUST show one human being doing both.

    - You MUST show how Kinect Forza head tracking is equivalent (or at least substantially similar) to a full-on VR with full field of vision in all directions, with head tracking or otherwise.

    NOTE: You have not done this yet. With VR, I look where I want to look, and I see what would be there. With Kinect Forza head tracking, it does NOT work like that -- you even explained it yourself. (What I said was entirely true. If I turn my head 90 degrees with Forza Kinect, I will see my room's left wall. Sure, if I turn my head 5 degrees, the view may turn like 45 degrees in the game... but that just makes my point for me: this is nothing like the 1-to-1 concept of VR tracking.) You also don't get a full field of view immersion sans head tracking. So they are simply too different. You MUST prove this to be false to proceed.

    ---

    For hypocrisy, a specific person must attack something when it is MS, and then defend something very similar to it when it is Sony (or vice versa).

    It CANNOT be 2 different people, just because you consider them both to be parts of the same group. I am not responsible for what other people say, any more than you are responsible for what Darkfalz says.

    It CANNOT be 2 different technologies, just because they are loosely related in your wrong-headed head.

    ---

    I'll make this very easy for you. Fill out this form:

    - _____ is excited about Ace Combat 7 with VR (see link _____); but that same person was pooping on Forza's Kinect head tracking (see link ______).

    - Kinect's head tracking in Forza (with its non-1-to-1 minor application to the game) is equivalent to complete virtual reality with peripheral vision with 1-to-1 application to a flight simulator game like AC 7. My reasoning is as follows: _________.

    If you do this, you will have (possibly for the first time ever on this board) show someone's hypocrisy other than your own.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuco33 View Post
    I could, but I won't, quote you and mich and badger and many others who continuously thrashed kinect and any argument I made over it, especially over head tracking, and now some of you have mini erections over imagining the possibilities with PSVR.
    1. Badger on a daily basis trashes PS VR.

    2. michealo just today posted that he hopes no one releases a VR or AR solution.

    3. I was publicly and repeatedly excited about Natal. Eventually it was released and turned out to be basically a POS for the Oprah crowd, and I pointed this fact out, but I certainly did not "continuously <trash> kinect and any argument <you> made over it."

    Retry.

    Also, "I could, but I won't" carries about the same weight as "I can't and therefore I won't." You are full of shit, dude.

    Retry.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuco33 View Post
    It is an assumption, but one based on what the Sony CEO said just a few months ago that the PSVR will be similarly priced like a new console launch.
    MS made similar comments about Kinect. Kinect was not priced at $399.99 in 2010, was it? The PS4 is not $399.99 now, is it? Right.

    Sony has also stated that they plan on selling it at a loss. The components of a PSVR do not cost more than $400.

    So $400 min is a realistic assumption
    No, it isn't.

    and being Sony and how they handled the Move
    The PS Move controller cost $49.99 at launch, or $99.99 with a game and the PS Eye. Which breaks down to $33.33 per-item, not an unreasonable amount of money. So, how exactly did they "handle the Move" again?

    I could EASILY see this being 'minimum entry costs $400 but if you want the whole experience that we promote then it'll be a lot more expensive'
    The "whole experience" is the PSVR. It works either way, so no.

    How is having a connected box irrelevant?
    Because it's a connected device that goes on your head, cuco. Who gives a shit if there's a box attached to the console at that point? You already have to put on the thing on your head. This is irrelevant because it's a dumb argument to make.

    We've been hearing it for years how shitty it is to have power bricks on x360s/XOs
    And they are, because if your console is already big enough as is? There shouldn't be another box attached to it that you ~need~ for it to turn on. That's an excuse that can be used on a small console, like a PS2 slim, a Wii, a Wii U, or an XB360-E etc. which are small enough where the idea is to keep the footprint of the hardware as small as possible. Neither the OG 360 nor the XBONE are small consoles. They're big, they're heavy and in the XBONE's case: There's factually PLENTY of open space in the hardware for a built-in PSU.

    how crappy it was to have the hddvd addon
    No one complained about the HDDVD add-on because it was "another box", people complained about it because it was a $200 add-on that should've been a part of the console in the first place considering what it was going against. It was expensive, it was fairly big on its own and it was just obnoxious to deal with.

    how poor it is to have a usb external hard drive
    Who has said that having an external drive is a bad thing? Find me those quotes. Having a replaceable drive is better than being forced to have an external drive for the sake of neatness, but no one's complaint was based on "BCUZ SPACE!". It's just nice to swap out drives from your console than be forced to have an external drive constantly attached to your console.

    Does that mean an external drive is bad? No. And I haven't seen anyone claim that external drives are bad, just that swapping drives is a better option than mandatory external drives (but having both is the best idea).

    and whatever else.
    Whatever else indeed.

    Now this is irrelevant?? Ha!!
    Your false equivalence made for a bad argument. It was always irrelevant.

    The idea of add-ons has ALWAYS SUCKED, but the argument you've made that somehow "OMG ANOTHER BOX!" is somehow a big deal is just nonsense. It's VR dude, no one's gonna care about the box... They're buying it with complete understanding that they'll be wearing a freaking screen on their heads, no one's gonna care about the box. So again: Your argument is irrelevant.

    Limited in games it can be used with is an assumption but the worse assumption is that PSVR would work on every game out there.
    It's a screen. Its use as a VR platform isn't limited to VR-only games.

    This falls in line with 3D, some games natively supported it or were patched to support it but the bulk of them did not at all. The same will happen with PSVR.
    Again with the false equivalence. 3D and PSVR are not the same thing. PSVR on its own works as a screen, dedicated support isn't necessary for it to be used as a display device. It's just needed for specific use.

    Using movemotes is an assumption?
    Yes, it's an assumption. We don't know whether or not they'll adopt a new control input, we don't even have a release date for it.

    Then why is Sony promoting PSVR with them?
    For the same reason Oculus spent years demoing the Rift headset with XB360 controllers instead of Oculus Touch controllers: Because that's what they had/have on-hand.

    Look at 3D last gen. Some games that were out already got the 3D patch. Same can easily apply to PS4 titles that are out already. Resources would be spent to patch them.
    Already addressed above. This isn't 3D.

    I recall this being a problem elsewhere but with PSVR it's all good in the hood? Would you rather Sony and devs focus on new games or patch VR in with existing games?
    Sony is big enough to do both if they wanted to and most devs aren't going to go out of their way to patch VR into existing games that haven't already said they'd consider it.

    Completely relevant broski!!
    You wanting something really bad, doesn't make it true. Still irrelevant.

    VR is the new thing. It can be a bust and be considered a flop/fad or it can take off and be the next big thing.
    VR's been around for the better part of 3 decades at this point. VR is not a new thing, modern VR has been around and been in development PUBLICLY for 3+ years at this point. People can already experience it, people can already play games in VR. Kinect was bad from day one, so was Wii/Move. Neither had the support and both were poorly supported, even though Kinect and Wii sold plenty initially. Neither survived because neither made for compelling products that warranted long-term consumer support and died because of that. VR already has an upper-hand on Kinect, Wii and Move. The only issue is pricing and marketing, a completely different matter from what made Kinect, Wii and Move "fads"/"flops".

    On this very site we have a mix of this so it isn't irrelevant either. Kinect, Wii fads, but anything that Sony does isn't as per Indy
    I was onboard VR long before Sony announced a VR project, and I was initially against VR in favor of Oculus... hate to break it to you, cuco, but your fanboy glasses seem to be coloring your perspective.

    I mean VR isn't Kinect 3.0 but there sure are a ton of similarities even if the tech differs greatly!
    "There are a ton of similarities" in the same way VR and games consoles in the 70s had a ton of similarities. They're new platforms, that's the "similarities". Kinect and VR are fundamentally different in how they work and how they're supported.

    It's got the Sony logo on it, of course it's awesome!!
    #amidoinitright?
    In that you keep making fanboy statements? Yes.


    Well, being that the MS similarities that I already mentioned were slammed, for years even
    By whom? Where's the evidence?

    and PSVR brings them to light with similarities
    How? Because outside of "THEY WERE BOTH NEW THINGS!" your argument is pretty much you desperately trying to equate something for the sake of calling people "cronies" without any basis to back up your allusions to hypocrisy.

    it's kind of hard to argue against this point cuz Sony does no wrong brah! :P
    Exactly my point. Baseless accusations just to make fanboy statements.

    I actually think I did a pretty good job there
    Nope, you didn't.
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  4. #34
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    Here is the thread that has most of all the talks about Natal/Kinect.

    Project Natal vs PS3 Motion Impressions

    This is what I said to WellInformed,

    Quote Originally Posted by twonunpackmule View Post
    Via video and beta software.

    Secondly, the previews have been nothing but positive. Yes, there's a bit of lag, but, IT'S NOT OUT YET. Again, not out. This is an issue I'm almost positive is being looked at and being worked on. However, it's doing more than the "Sony" solution. It's taking your whole body and transferring that into input. The Sony solution is using a dildo. Big Whoop.

    I'm not going to create topics and long winded posts debunking the Sony Solution as inferior because it's lagging a bit too. Though, I will write long winded ones to counter your fanboy. The thing isn't even out yet. Neither of them are. You're spending your time trying to debunk a beta/unfinished/unreleased product. Let's hear it for you...

    *Mild applause*

    It's getting ridiculous (on your part) on the amount of "debunking" towards the tech when none of it isn't out yet. It's fine to state, "Hey, I'm not into either", "I like one over the other", "Wait and see", that's just fine. Some people don't like motion control. Power to them. I'm one of them, yet, at the same time not. I find that I'm slowly being won over. However, it has not provided enough reason to prove itself valuable.

    I feel Natal has the most potential, as it is the most forward thinking of the two solutions. BUT! It's still got to prove itself in application. Getting hot and bothered by previews is silly.

    Basically, one of three things will happen...

    1. You'll be wrong.

    This will cause you to not post for awhile...like 2 weeks or so. You'll be at a lost because your fuel has run out. You'll spend that time finding something else to latch onto. It'll take a bit. Probably come back with GT5 starts to slowly turtle it's way out of the anus of PD.

    2. You might be right.

    Then you'll spend the next 2 weeks posting various information on it's suckiness.

    3. It has a rocky launch.

    You'll see this as victory, but the software slowly starts to get better. Gradually dimming your prospects, your agenda falters, and you get sad. Then you stop posting for a 2 week period. You'll come back when the turtle has dropped from the anus of PD.
    This is why I found it funny that I got lumped into the SDF crowd recently. This was also during my more aggressive days. Any chance I got to argue with WellInformed was a blessed day.
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  5. #35
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    That's a fun thread. In the first two pages, I go on record with Michaelo agreeing that both Kinect and PS Move would be a "pass" for me and hoped that neither would catch on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger3920 View Post
    In the interest of brevity, +1

    Neither will be a "buy" for me.
    I have the same stance here.

    Consistency for the win.
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    I too have consistency!

    ... Because there literally isn't a post from me in that thread?
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  7. #37
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    I was actually surprised to see I made a comment about Natal versus PS Move on the first page of that thread.

  8. #38
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    For what it's worth, given Cuco's recent favorite claim that everyone here shit on Forza head tracking; I actually took the two minutes to look it up.

    -Link-

    The worst things said were actually more oriented toward Kinect:
    -Michaelo called it mild usage.
    -I called it mild usage.

    That's not so bad.

    What about the other remarks?:

    -Dave fought me tooth and nail, stating that it transcended mild usage and was a very important (if niche) feature.

    -RRS admitted it was mild usage but fought the idea that it wasn't of great utility to wheel users. He, like dave, fought me for a couple pages arguing that I minimized it too much as compared to just using the d-pad on a wheel.

    -I noted that the feature was neat and added value.


    So yeah, this massacre of Kinect head tracking never happened as far as I can see. At a minimum, most people agreed that it was neat or useful, and some agreed that even so, it was mild usage. Others argued heavily in favor of it being an application that makes a significant difference. So much for the pitchforks recited in the Cuco history books.
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  9. #39
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    This suddenly got so much more interesting
    why hate? participate!
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  10. #40
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    Seems to me the chronies are shook one last time before the year ends! They are reinventing history and doing their own searches and summarizing their own posts lmao
    And somehow I call these things out like clockwork, spin to infinity and beyond, downplay what was said, or justify why it doesnt count

    Looking foward to more of the madness in 2016

    But honestly this all really shows you how sonyaintgotnogames and thisgensucks, and how slow news has been
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  11. #41
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    Out of curiosity and checked to see the results for "tracking" on the FvGT thread. 8 pages of posts, which range from:

    Badger and Red arguing with Dave about its inclusion in GT5.

    Dave arguing that head tracking, if done right in FM4 would've been a good feature.

    And post-FM4? The only "negative" remarks about Forza head tracking were exclusively from Dave (1) and mich. (1) (2) (3) The former of which cuco consistently tried to dismiss because he never played the game and the latter who was always cautiously critical of Kinect to begin with.

    Hell, cuco tries to argue with me about head tracking on one occasion to boot and I don't even address it because it was a non-argument about something I never talked about.

    8 pages, pre-Kinect and post-Kinect and the most criticism a "head tracking" feature got was its limited use in GT5, not Forza.

    Mich calls it "mild use", which he did of most Kinect things and still does; I had zero opinion on it and thought it was a non-argument; Dave initially said it was an awesome idea and then switched his tune based on an Eurogamer hands-on article... Of course, we can't take Dave's remarks of ANY FM4 feature as relevant since according cuco himself Dave's opinion of a Forza game only matters if he's played it.

    So there you go, cuco. Neither Red nor Badger had an opinion regarding Kinect head tracking. Your entire argument about how people were so critical of Kinect head tracking hinges solely on the remarks of the one guy you consistently tried to dismiss as irrelevant because he didn't actually play the game. You're off on the right foot, huh?
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuco33 View Post
    Seems to me the chronies are shook one last time before the year ends! They are reinventing history and doing their own searches and summarizing their own posts lmao
    And somehow I call these things out like clockwork, spin to infinity and beyond, downplay what was said, or justify why it doesnt count

    Looking foward to more of the madness in 2016

    But honestly this all really shows you how sonyaintgotnogames and thisgensucks, and how slow news has been
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuco33 View Post
    Seems to me the chronies are shook one last time before the year ends!
    You had no argument, when asked to present evidence you did no such thing. People thought they'd refresh your memory.

    They are reinventing history and doing their own searches and summarizing their own posts lmao
    Do you have any evidence to the contrary? BTW, I did my own search in your favorite thread, I even posted it above... Would you like to refute it?

    And somehow I call these things out like clockwork, spin to infinity and beyond, downplay what was said, or justify why it doesnt count
    Let's see:

    Red: Posted evidence
    Badger: Posted evidence
    Me: Posted evidence
    Cuco: Did not post evidence and tries to claim people who did are "revising history".

    Huh... that's odd... the guy who didn't post ANY evidence to back his claims is the one arguing "spin"... Almost as if he lacks any self-awareness...

    Looking foward to more of the madness in 2016
    Looking forward to some evidence from cuco in 2016.

    But honestly this all really shows you how sonyaintgotnogames and thisgensucks, and how slow news has been
    ... No evidence, cuco? Just diversions? Oh okay, got it.
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    Indy, you do know that kinect and head tracking was discussed in many threads over the years right? And the chrony agenda is to downplay anything kinect. We got that message loud and clear, refering to it even as a gimick and all. I guess it was hard to argue it when I pointed out that PC has been doing it for awhile, that you dont have to fully turn your head away, and that wheel users dont have the right analog stick to view.. so even though I wasnt a fan of it that it does what it was designed to do.
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  15. #45
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    Apparently that's not the thread I was thinking of. I never posted in that one. Which thread was it where WI went all crazy saying Move was going to make him better at SOCOM, because it would be like using a mouse? I remember mich and I got into a good 10 page argument with him over it. Was that the "delusions of grandeur" thread? That was rich.
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