Forza vs GT

[Coren]

My thoughts kinda agree with a lot here...some kind of silly issues with the game, some so easy to prevent it's unfortunate they exist at all, and others not so easy to fix...

...but holy shit is the game incredible, and I have zero doubt whatsoever that it will be remembered as the definitive racing sim for some time to come.

[michealo]

My thoughts kinda agree with a lot here...some kind of silly issues with the game, some so easy to prevent it's unfortunate they exist at all, and others not so easy to fix...

...but holy shit is the game incredible, and I have zero doubt whatsoever that it will be remembered as the definitive racing sim for some time to come.

based on what criteria? keep in mind review scores are the most important quantifier at this present time and may or may not change to sales down the road (no pun intended).

[CorruptedDragon]

based on what criteria? keep in mind review scores are the most important quantifier at this present time and may or may not change to sales down the road (no pun intended).

That is a real reversal on your position.

[Badger3920]

What is; a facetious statement about the behavior of others?

I think you misinterpreted his comment.

[coN]

CD - Dude, your going all kinds of crazy... Relax guy...

In other news... FUCK YOU MONTOYA!!! FUCK YOU, FUCKING FAG!!!*** EACH TIME IM ABOUT TO SCORE GOLD IN A NASCAR TEST, YOU FUCKING PIT ME A FRACTION OF A SECOND IM ABOUT TO GO PAST THE FINISH LINE!!!

THEN I HAVE MR. GORDON TAUNTING ME AFTER I START SPINNING OUT, ASKING, "Are you alright?" IN A "Are you fucking retarded?" SORT OF TONE, THEN TURNING OFF THE MIC AND PROCEEDS TO BURST OUT LAUGHING UNTIL HE CRIES BECAUSE HE KNEW IT WASNT MY FAULT BUT, IT WAS FUN TO MAKE IT SEEM LIKE IT WAS.

ALSO, BECAUSE OF YOU, IM NO LONGER GOING TO SHOP AT TARGET!!! FUCK YOU TOO TARGET!!!

***fag was used in the South Park context

[james]

I think that the "problem" with GT5 is that the greatest additions and improvements of the game are not accessed from the first playthroughs. Its not like Forza where you can scale the difficulty from the casual to the hardcore. It demands you to advance in order to get them. So it scales according to how well you play and progress. So at the initial levels it might feel like GT4 which is what the reviewers have done. They reviewed only the initial portion of the game and totally missed what makes it the most advanced and multi-featured racing available. Its not casual friendly at all in the sense that it will never open up to you if you are not a dedicated racer.

So it appears that it is one of those cases where the reviews are totally off, missing the idea and features of the game. Since the reviewers either are casuals or arent hardcore racers or didnt have time to give it the correct treatment they will not give a correct impression and evaluation of the game. You cant review correctly damage, you cant review AI, you cant review the physics if it can not be accessed yet

I doubt any of the reviews did the game's justice. The good reviews probably gave good scores because they liked the small portion they experienced or because its GT and the bad reviews gave bad scores because they missed the advanced features or because well....its GT.

And, there in lies one of the problems, the games inaccessibility. That is a design flaw, intended or not. There are also the wonky, non-intuitive menus, the absence of key features (i.e. brake upgrades, not enough premium cars, better replay options), and a general lack of polish/presentation, etc. I agree the game is good, but it is a flawed masterpiece. I think the reviews are fair. This game could have been better.

[coldfoot]

And, there in lies one of the problems, the games inaccessibility. That is a design flaw, intended or not. There are also the wonky, non-intuitive menus, the absence of key features (i.e. brake upgrades, not enough premium cars, better replay options), and a general lack of polish/presentation, etc. I agree the game is good, but it is a flawed masterpiece. I think the reviews are fair. This game could have been better.

Brake upgrades are a key feature now? I mean yeah they'd be nice, but not a key feature by a long shot.

Reviews are unfairly harsh due to the long development time, and the 200+ premium cars are WAY better than Forza's cars. They're modelled in house in Japan vs. outsourced to Vietnam and India. Which would you prefer? Made in Japan or Made in Vietnam/India? I know which one I'd get.

[Badger3920]

And, there in lies one of the problems, the games inaccessibility. That is a design flaw, intended or not. There are also the wonky, non-intuitive menus, the absence of key features (i.e. brake upgrades, not enough premium cars, better replay options), and a general lack of polish/presentation, etc. I agree the game is good, but it is a flawed masterpiece. I think the reviews are fair. This game could have been better.

I think this is probably the best summation I've seen to date. Certainly a flawed masterpiece. The good news is, you can learn the menus - so that's a one-time frustration (that easily could/should have been avoided altogether). I have no idea why you cant upgrade to massive brembo brakes or something of that nature because you can do pretty much everything else; so it's a glaring omission. I've only watched a replay once, but it is odd that you can't rewind.

However, once you're driving, it's pure bliss (aside from wishing, perhaps, that you had upgraded brakes). I'm really digging this game. I love hauling Hugh Jazz down some hill and the camera starts shaking and the wheel vibrating because the car is 'on the edge' of control. Pure awesomeness

As to inaccessibility - I think you're right, but that it's a tough call. Clearly, this game is designed around the idea that you have to work to unlock things - and that's part of the gratification that keeps you coming back. You WANT to work towards more. But, the trade off is that it will frustrate people - especially if you have to play for weeks to unlock main elements like damage etc. But, on the otherhand, if you could purchase Ferraris and F1 cars on the first day and access all options - there would be far less incentive to work toward anything in the game, and the game would probably have less staying power.

So in the end - it seems like a tradeoff. Restrict options to an unlocking system and piss people off and totally block out reviewers, or allow a lot more of those things earlier on and reduce the incentive to work toward things in the game - also reducing the feeling of accomplishment.

I think that having things too readily available would be like putting Fallout 3 into your system and on day 1, being able to achieve level 40. That would crush the spirit and idea of the game

[james]

Brake upgrades are a key feature now? I mean yeah they'd be nice, but not a key feature by a long shot.

Reviews are unfairly harsh due to the long development time, and the 200+ premium cars are WAY better than Forza's cars. They're modelled in house in Japan vs. outsourced to Vietnam and India. Which would you prefer? Made in Japan or Made in Vietnam/India? I know which one I'd get.

Is it a hardcore racing sim or not? This game is designed to be a gear head's wet dream.

Yep, I would say not including brake upgrades is borderline retarded.

[coN]

Is it a hardcore racing sim or not? This game is designed to be a gear head's wet dream.

Yep, I would say not including brake upgrades is borderline retarded.

I agree. I just lightly tuned a 91 Silivia K (S13) and i am in love with the car. Guess what wouldve made it perfect?

I generally lightly tune cars in the game in accordance to what ive done with my Hondas (EP, EJ1, EH2 & DC2) and the results are phenomenal.

[james]

I agree. I just lightly tuned a 91 Silivia K (S13) and i am in love with the car. Guess what wouldve made it perfect?

I generally lightly tune cars in the game in accordance to what ive done with my Hondas (EP, EJ1, EH2 & DC2) and the results are phenomenal.

Unfortunately, I think since PD did such an amazing job with other tuning aspects, it makes that one omission stand out even more.

[cuco33]

The game is phenomenal but it's not perfect. I think overall the reviews have been right-ish even if they didn't unlock full damage at higher levels... not to make a meltdown happen over here but the game does have bugs n issues, some bigger than others. The more I play and the more I read up, new stuff makes me wonder how much debugging the game did they do. Some I expect to be patched up and fixed but others I dunno how cuz it seems like a big unertaking. In the spirit of smackdown, the only thing I will post, since it was such a heavily discussed topic with FM3's pre launch build floaty promo pics is a post launch GT5 image in photo mode of floaty Lancer Evo that's doing it worse than FM3 ever did



cON, do you hear vtec kicking in? My civic r (gonna eventually use it for online races) is modded up to 250hp and with the power mods it doesn't sound like a honda motor. Sounds are improved but I can't hear that vtec spike at high rpms and the car still sounds semi muffled. In FM3 you can hear where it kicks in. For those who have heard modded Hondas in real life, which should be every one lol, they are furthest from being muffled and are quite loud and raspy.

[Coren]

based on what criteria? keep in mind review scores are the most important quantifier at this present time and may or may not change to sales down the road (no pun intended).

Why are review scores the most important criteria?

What's "Definitive" and what has the "highest scores" are really 2 very different things.

Definitive for the generation = what defines the generation. And so far, everyone I know that's put any real time into GT5 pretty much agrees it puts anything else into it's shadow despite GT5's flaws...and really, whether it's fair or not, GT5 really could have sucked and still came out as the "Definitive" racer simply because of it's name.

[coldfoot]

Cuco, that might be just one instance of a physics bug instead of consistent failure though.

[cuco33]

Unfortunately, I think since PD did such an amazing job with other tuning aspects, it makes that one omission stand out even more.

I'll be honest, so far fro what I've fiddled around with modding/upgrading cars and tuning, it's done well enough but FM3 does it way better. Yes I said way better. Upgrading parts or tuning is so much easier (and faster) in FM3 and I love the real time tuning aspect in it, which I haven't come across in GT5 yet. Lack of brake upgrades is a huge omission but I've been been fiddling around with the brake controller that someone here mentioned. You shouldn't be able to buy a carbon hood or intake manifold or exhaust when you are in a honda, not install it, and then use it on a VW or Chevy. The tickets stuff is nice but if I spend 5k for an engine upgrade, at min it should stay within the family. I've used Audi parts on VWs, and Merc Benz wheels fit on VW/Audis cuz they are the same lug pattern (with wheels you can get adapters, if lug pattern isn't same but that's another story) and offset but in real life an intake mani for a Honda fits Honda motors and maybe some Acuras (family), nothing more. I have an imagination though, I look at it as 'credit at a tuning shop' type of thing.