Forza vs GT

[cuco33]

So anyone want to continue discussion of what's related to this thread? Something in lines with what I've posted rather than crying for double standards and bias (even though I've already stated I do have a preference many many times but that doesn't mean I don't like playing the other title lol)? Or do you guys enjoy the cries for blasphemy and trolling ways? Seems that happens quite a lot over here

Let me quote myself as it was the last stuff related to the topic and both games...


Here's one post, related to topic at hand:

There goes that preaching of the double standard again!


So getting back to these games and low speed physics issue...

GT5 = Shelby Cobra, Dodge Challenger SRT8, Ferrari F10 F1, Mazda 787B, and Audi R10 all exhibit the same straight as an arrow full throttle standing start with all assists off on various tire compounds.
FM4 = Dodge Challenger SRT8 slight ass kick but very minimal and seeing as it weighs 2 tons I didn't expect it to kick out. No Ferrari F10 F1 car obviously but the Shelby Cobra, Mazda 787B and Audi R10, all high power lightweight RWD cars, with assists all off does have the ass kick out.
This low speed physics issue in GT could be why I'm putting 1sec faster lap times in the Challenger SRT8 on Laguna Seca even on default Sports Hards, faster than FM4's Challenger SRT8 on racing slicks. It could also be that it was easier to mash the gas through the corkscrew once I'm already in it. Tried mashing gas in FM4 right after turning into it, same way as I did in GT5, and the car loses grip, gets unstable and loses control. Also after the starting line I can keep on full throttle before hard braking into turn 1 in GT5 without any issues on either default SH or RS tire compounds but in FM4 I have to feather it a bit on both stock and racing slicks and be smoother with the wheel. In FM4's version there's a slight dip that the 2 ton weight gets squirly while moving, slight loss in grip, slight feel in FFB and sometimes it's too much and you loss control.
Doing time trials was fun in both games with a wheel. FM4 feels to me more realistic.


And just for shits n giggles:

FM4 - Mazda 787B


FM4 - Audi S1

I can't explain to you how awesome these sound. The S1 I wished the trademark laughing blowoff sound was louder though.

and here's some bits from another that's actual discussion related to what happens and doesn't:

I came across it. A lot of gaming sites are blocked at work but it was either DF or LOT analysis and it was in 3D mode with max output rez, I believe in a premium car, cockpit view, 'premium' track with rain and cars on screen. 16fps wasn't the norm that the game ran. 16fps was what they observed in their analysis, so in other words a spike due to hardware being taxed the most in a specific example.


Even if that was televator, let's not kid ourselves about the stance you took homey. lol
And I'd have to dig and look for it, not that I want to anyways but a few non-GT/FM games were brought up and the 30fps frame rate was mentioned from what I remember. I recall even NFS Shift and PGR games were noted to run at 30fps and that being a negative.


Actually I've noticed it being improved in photos from a replay vs in game race.
This:

during in game race backing out to car view showed the smokey pixelation issues especially with the smoke and the edge of the car. In photo from race replay it went away.
Here's the same "RWB Porsche" that I made in GT5, shutter speed set to fastest, no 'bokeh' style extreme apeture, as sharp as I can make a 'standing still' shot (as it was me racing) of the same car.

Car model looks like your typical standard car, HD remix, while on premium wheels.
I REALLY hope the rumors are true about FM4 getting the RUF CTR as DLC cuz I so will be making RWBs if the rear spoiler like the one shown in GT5 shot above is an option

And since we're referring to photomodes, I'll be really honest here... There's things I like about both. One big pro I like about Forza is that, outside of multiplayer (obviously since it's real time) whether in practice or in an actual race or during a race replay you can simply press pause and go straight to take photos. Big pro in my book. A con for Forza 4's photomodes is the file export. It's fairly easy to be honest but I like it better in GT5 where I don't have to be locked to a site and I believe LIVE Gold just to get pics taken in a game. Overall though I think GT5's photomode is better, better functionality and produces better pics easier than Forza 4. In GT5 photo modes I'm able to take great pics without much hesitation and it is similar to real world photography. In FM4 it's tough to get the right balance of camera settings and feels like camera options rather than if you were walking around with a camera like it feels in GT5.



But it's not complete BS. You're on gtplanet. Go make a post about it over there or search and you'll see tons of people noting issues. I've even read posts over there about folks still seeing frame dips and screen tears on Nord in the rain while in premium cars with a big car grid, but I am not the biggest fan of Nord especially in the rain so I don't race on that track much. I myself have noticed improved performance with my system set to 720p output than 1080p (40gb nonBC PS3 fat, originally HDMI output now component output), but again note that I don't race much in weather so I don't notice as much issues. On Rome or London in a 12 or less car grid it runs well in 720p mode, slight hiccups in 1080p pre v2.03 and now runs better post v2.03 with 12+ cars since PD removed track side models. I was just doing a race last night on London, one of the seasonals with a 12 car grid. I raced with a premium 300SL MB and noticed no hiccups nor tears. I was going to take the same car on the same track with full 16 car grid to see if I noticed anything but forgot to be honest. Maybe tonight, but I'm not a fan of that track. I'll admit, The Merc I used, tuned to be a PP400 car, was quite fun. Any faster on this track and I'm shutting the PS3 off over frustration.

This is all from the obvious diversions, cries of bias and blasphemy, etc

[Indy_aka_Rex]

I miss the superman racing softs in GT5, they made endurance races so much easier. Also, SWEET FUCKING JESUS, the difference in audio pre and post-patch is noticeable when you're on the Nissan XANAVI NISMO racer. Even through my TV speakers, that motor sounds fucking amazing.

[cuco33]

Unfortunately this is back


I didn't take any stance on it.....It was all you and Televator as I proved with links to the debate you had.

You claimed for a couple of months that I had this big debate with you about the Ferrari in the Forza 3 DLC and how it was the same car that was already in the game.......I kept telling you I didn't have any such debate with you.....

In the end I actually went back and dug up the relevant quotes to show you I had nothing to do with the debate......and when confrunted with facts what do you do........claim that I had the debate at some other time with you but that you cant be bothered looking for a quote.

When presented with a simple fact you just keep claiming that your point of view is correct and everybody else is wrong.....

You didn't take any stance? lol cmon homey, we know damn well that even if I was wrong about it being you who I was initially debating with that whole FXX/599XX vs Enza/599, as one of many dupe examples in FM3 that you have taken stance on dupes stuff against Forza. This is in lines with your typical defending GT at all costs because I made a claim against GT (but I also made a claim against Forza... but everyone breathes down my neck when I say something against GT as this entire thread is proof of it)
What's funny is I take the stance on both games doing dupe stuff, even pointing out specific examples in both latest games, but noting that GT has more... cuz it does. Indy even chimed in to the discussion and it went off in a tangent cuz everyone's definition of dupes are different.

And then here we have the exact same thing.......you are trying to claim that GT5 has constant frame dips and screen tearing blowing the effect completely out of proportion. You even claim that you have to run the game in 720p mode because it is so bad in 1080p that you simply cant play that way.....

Except when Digital Foundry did their anaylsis of GT5 they said this.

Your defense is great my friend... I get it, you love GT5.
Pre v2.03, shit I'd even say pre spec2 update... everytime you were in rain on certain tracks, or in premium car with a full grid on certain premium tracks, the game would hiccup and screens tore on occasions when more objects on screen needed to be rendered or when code was impacted more (like crashes or more AIs doing more than just going straight). It did this more in these conditions when set to 3D. The pros noted it in their analysis, and 16fps was observed under extreme case. The GT fanbase even on GT's biggest fan site, gtplanet, noted it (some even saying it still happens on some tracks). I noticed it a few times and I'm not a fan. My buddies who aren't really gamers but have GT5 and PS3s even noticed it (as 1 funny example, 1 of them asked me if they can downgrade the game settings to prevent this like on PC and I said no, it's locked in and that's what you get). And like I pointed out, PD noted it to tweak, patch and optimize things through many patches especially including the latest v2.03.
You're downplaying that it doesn't happen. You telling me I, pros, bunch of GT fans, PD and others are seeing things?? lol
Forza maintains a steady 60fps in all conditions. It does so by implementing things like slower framerate in mirrors and LOD and model swaps in game. GT does some things similar, but the more you tax the game the less likely you'll be at 60fps with little to no screen tearing.

You are so desperate to blow an issue out of all proportion that you are just making facts up......and yet again when presented with facts you simply say the facts are wrong and you are right......

Come on Cuco your better than that........How can you have an honest debate when you refuse to acknowledge facts.......are you claiming that you know more about this issue than the people at Digital Foundry?

(Just as you claim to know more about in game physcis than the reviewers you brought into the thread?)

No I'm not desperate. Your desperate to brush it under the carpet cuz it's a ding against GT5, one of which has been improved over the patching, the removal of track side artifacts, the downgrading of output rez, etc. If there was no issue at all with screen tearing and frame dips then DF and LOT, fans of the series, and even PD would not have noted it or made changes to optimize performance.
Have I ever said it happens to 16fps each and every time? Nope.. That was an observation in an extreme case. It's why I've said the more you tax the system... the more likely you'll see performance hits.

You would say I'm 'so desperate to blow an issue out of proportion and just making facts up' cuz you don't like that it shows what the reality is for GT5. Outside of the performance hits, you continued to defend standards and their qualities, even pointing out some good pics of them, some of which I countered with the exact same car showing you exactly the issues in modeling and textures and jaggy edges. And I've pointed out the lacking features and mode in these cars. All of which is fact. Not blown out of proportion made up fact... as in fact-fact. Unlike your very own 'so desperate to blow an issue out of proportion and just making facts up' regarding things like a magic carpet floaty feeling which FM4 does not have. And all you'd have to do to see it is play the game

Just sayin homey, call a spade a spade. I've given both titles the nods and thrashings they both deserve. I know on a few occasions after being beaten down over facts you sometimes have admitted some issues in GT5 but tried and true it's the norm from you to defend defend defend, spin deflect and defend. Like I've said, this thread would have gone on a lot better and smoother if folks just admitted the rights and wrongs of both titles.
As an example.. I'd love to see offroad in FM4. I'd love to see livery editor in GT5. I'd love to see weather in FM4. I'd love to see all cars and tracks treated to the same standard in GT5. etc etc etc...

[Indy_aka_Rex]

Guys, I'd just like to let everyone know that.

I see the e-stalker is still stalking away. Thanks for taking something out of context which was a response to an extreme fanboyistic comment on gtplanet. I wonder when you'll have a life and not stalk and troll like the keyboard warrior you are. Maybe stepping outside your mother's basement would be a start chief

Carry on stalking troll.. carry on.

WE

Bullshit. You are a desperate stalking troll, nothing more and nothing less. Of course taking things out of context from your no life stalking ways. Ironically the circle jerk committee chimes in to take stabs as well.
Coldfoot you need help. Its never good to e-stalk anyone especially video game posters who are strangers to you on a blog.

Basement dwelling internet warrior. Unreal

SHOULD

I don't see why you're upset with my post, since you said:


Let me finish by the a modified version of your quote: Consistency...cuco33 has none.

NOT

My comment wasn't about Dave but more about you and Badger. Neither you nor badger aren't sympathizing with me getting trolled, let's get real here. You're just tagging along. And I still don't get why you chime in here at all as you've got no interest in either game to begin with.

I've stayed away from this thread until I saw coldfoot being the pathetic little basement trolling e-stalker that he is, taking something I said on another site out of context to make me look like a fool. And the comment I was replying to on gtp was about your typical extreme GT-or-nothing fanboy saying how inexcusable the FM4 version of the ring was. Last I checked when I'm on the ring on Forza I'm not mistaken by what track I'm on. I know I'm on the ring. And yes, GT5's version is modeled better and looks better, as I've said numerous times where even Dave agreed I've said this. Coldfoot, you grow more and more pathetic each day. After e-stalking me, and me walking away from this section of this site you still go on e-stalking me and bringing in discussions from other sites, out of context as well.
FYI, the reason why the ring isn't modeled the best in Forza is because they acquired the track data from the PGR team who botched it to begin with. It's why all other real tracks are very spot on and realistic. Only way to get a better ring is for them to start from scratch.

The only reason why this thread is even alive is the obvious threadjacking into car talk and, you guessed it, cf being the troll that he is with his anti American hatred denying even facts that are presented to him. I've already said my share that I'm not a big American car fan but I give respect where it is deserved. Dave's GT5 updates should just go into the game room under a GT5 thread cuz there's no more smackdown talk here. This thread is dieing, just like this smackdown section of the site is.

For those folks who apologized and/or asked me to come back, this is why I'm not active in this thread. Same ol' same ol' and if I even remotely mentioned what I thought about my Fanatec CSR and both games... a shitstorm would ensue, and quite frankly I don't want to deal with that shit at all

GO

no life troll
elite SDF fanboy
pathetic e-stalker
That's all you are brah..

I've already given some reasons in the past and moreso with FM4 but of course someone who's not played these games and are only going off trolling what they read on N4G, neogaf, gtplanet's gt forums, sdf.com, or the rest of the interwebz isn't going to be informed or know wtf they are talking about. They are as informed as the piece of shit I took this morning.

OFF

It's what people want it seems... but to be honest I don't know how long I'll stick around. It didn't take long before it went back to the same ol'..

TOPIC!

Pretty much I got (and exchanged) apologies and some asked for return. I know this thread has been a mess and I don't know if I'm going to stick as much around cuz it'll most likely go back to the same stuff. Just been busy with work, life and personal time and when I get home, pending the lady isn't hogging up my main entertainment area, I'll pop in a game. My new wheel is the fucking tits. I just don't like the shifter set and stick mostly to autoclutch and paddle shifters.

CF is just pathetic and I needed to respond to him publicly. He needed to be called out on his trolling, e-stalking, flame baiting ways. To think I was perfectly fine to have a beer with him (and others) and shoot the shit when F1 comes to dirty jersey next year....

Cuco doesn't like it when people don't talk about what the thread is supposed to be about: Forza v. GT5.

[cuco33]

lmao!!!

Indy, are you coldfoot or are you his boy?

Or are you just resorting to this to rial me up? cuz it ain't workin dog

Cuz it seems to me that time and time again you still bring up that mess that's happened from this forum's biggest creep and most desperate stalking fanboy, and continue to resort to defending him.

[DaveS1138]

You didn't take any stance? lol cmon homey, we know damn well that even if I was wrong about it being you who I was initially debating with that whole FXX/599XX vs Enza/599, as one of many dupe examples in FM3 that you have taken stance on dupes stuff against Forza. This is in lines with your typical defending GT at all costs because I made a claim against GT (but I also made a claim against Forza... but everyone breathes down my neck when I say something against GT as this entire thread is proof of it)
What's funny is I take the stance on both games doing dupe stuff, even pointing out specific examples in both latest games, but noting that GT has more... cuz it does. Indy even chimed in to the discussion and it went off in a tangent cuz everyone's definition of dupes are different.

No I didn't take any stance in the Ferrari debate you had with Televator....that was all you and him dude....now your trying to deflect it into the latest debate you had about car count.....want to prove me wrong....it's the simpliest thing in the whole world Cuco.....just go and dig up a quote showing I had anything to say on your Ferrari debate......I even linked you to the start of that debate to make it easier for you.

You have the simplest out in the entire world for this arguemnt Cuco......were debating an arguemnt you had with televator over 2 years ago in this thread....just admit you rememebered it wrong....that you remember having a debate on the subject and since you and I have debated so much you assumed it was me......now you have seen the quotes and yes indead it was you and Televator....

But you just cant do that...... I have no idea why...... you keep trying to pretend that we really did have that debate it was just afterwords except you cant be bothered to find any quotes.

I mean......really?

Your defense is great my friend... I get it, you love GT5.
Pre v2.03, shit I'd even say pre spec2 update... everytime you were in rain on certain tracks, or in premium car with a full grid on certain premium tracks, the game would hiccup and screens tore on occasions when more objects on screen needed to be rendered or when code was impacted more (like crashes or more AIs doing more than just going straight). It did this more in these conditions when set to 3D. The pros noted it in their analysis, and 16fps was observed under extreme case. The GT fanbase even on GT's biggest fan site, gtplanet, noted it (some even saying it still happens on some tracks). I noticed it a few times and I'm not a fan. My buddies who aren't really gamers but have GT5 and PS3s even noticed it (as 1 funny example, 1 of them asked me if they can downgrade the game settings to prevent this like on PC and I said no, it's locked in and that's what you get). And like I pointed out, PD noted it to tweak, patch and optimize things through many patches especially including the latest v2.03.
You're downplaying that it doesn't happen. You telling me I, pros, bunch of GT fans, PD and others are seeing things?? lol
Forza maintains a steady 60fps in all conditions. It does so by implementing things like slower framerate in mirrors and LOD and model swaps in game. GT does some things similar, but the more you tax the game the less likely you'll be at 60fps with little to no screen tearing.

Yes you get screen tearing and frame rate dips in GT5 whilst Forza 4 holds a steady 60fps by sacrificing features and limiting what it displays.......Nobody has ever denied that. What I dont accept is you blowing it out of all proportion making it sound like the game has constant frame rate drops and tearing making it unoplayable in 1080p mode.

Your deflecting again away from your claim......

No I'm not desperate. Your desperate to brush it under the carpet cuz it's a ding against GT5, one of which has been improved over the patching, the removal of track side artifacts, the downgrading of output rez, etc. If there was no issue at all with screen tearing and frame dips then DF and LOT, fans of the series, and even PD would not have noted it or made changes to optimize performance.
Have I ever said it happens to 16fps each and every time? Nope.. That was an observation in an extreme case. It's why I've said the more you tax the system... the more likely you'll see performance hits.

You would say I'm 'so desperate to blow an issue out of proportion and just making facts up' cuz you don't like that it shows what the reality is for GT5. Outside of the performance hits, you continued to defend standards and their qualities, even pointing out some good pics of them, some of which I countered with the exact same car showing you exactly the issues in modeling and textures and jaggy edges. And I've pointed out the lacking features and mode in these cars. All of which is fact. Not blown out of proportion made up fact... as in fact-fact. Unlike your very own 'so desperate to blow an issue out of proportion and just making facts up' regarding things like a magic carpet floaty feeling which FM4 does not have. And all you'd have to do to see it is play the game

See.....deflection away from the claim you were proved wrong on.

You specifically stated that you had to turn the game down from 1080p to 720p because you just couldn't live with the frame rate drop and screen tearing at 1080p.......except that is complate BS as shown in the DF analysis there is no noticable difference between 1080p and 720p modes since they do different processing in each which makes them the same.

You could simply accept this when faced with the facts......but instead you try to deflect bringing up standard cars and the features they lacked.....which has absolutely nothing what so ever to do with any difference between GT5 in 1080p vs 720p.

You were shown to be wrong and trying to blow an issue out of all proportions....just accept that.

Just sayin homey, call a spade a spade. I've given both titles the nods and thrashings they both deserve. I know on a few occasions after being beaten down over facts you sometimes have admitted some issues in GT5 but tried and true it's the norm from you to defend defend defend, spin deflect and defend. Like I've said, this thread would have gone on a lot better and smoother if folks just admitted the rights and wrongs of both titles.
As an example.. I'd love to see offroad in FM4. I'd love to see livery editor in GT5. I'd love to see weather in FM4. I'd love to see all cars and tracks treated to the same standard in GT5. etc etc etc...

I love the way you keep bring up that you give nods to both titles and criticise both as if anybody is claiming that you dont........I think thou doth protest too much if you know what I mean. It sounds an awefull lot like "some of my best friends are black".

[Indy_aka_Rex]

I'm gonna post a TL;DR multiquote post in a little while, but I just wanted to post a choice quote from cuco regarding the whole ISR thing:

Show me a comparison of Forza 4 physics, post patch, and GT5, post spec2.0 patch. You can't, because it doesn't exist. But don't worry, ISR who is now credible, whenever they get off their asses and finally do their part 2 of FM4 vs GT5 review, post latest patches of course, if they give the nod to Forza 4 will they then be no longer credible? Or still credible?

ISR who WAS at the time of that post credible according to cuco, is no longer credible. No cuco, there's no double-standard in your posts. None whatsoever.

[Indy_aka_Rex]

Let's talk about how cuco and evo only bash GT5 when it deserves it and how they don't set double-standards:

Forza4 has surpassed gt5 in every aspect of being a racing game except their rendition of the ring.

Sure you can race in the dark and rain in GT5....but its never convincing due to the weak sounds.

(Somehow car sounds are relevant when it comes to racing during night time or in the rain)

I guess its still the brick feeling from the other GT games.

But Im pretty much done with gt5 again. Its a huge leap from where it was at launch, but still behind forza.

But as it stands a game missing rally and f1 (im not counting karting because you would never miss it if it wasnt there...or nascar because f4 has stock car racing...with more tracks btw) its still not as good as a game that doesnt have it. Karting is just as dumb as autovista imo. I could care less about either and feel neither adds anything to the games value when looking at it from a racing standpoint.

Karts, F1, NASCAR, rally racing and rain? Don't add anything to a game looking at it from a racing standpoint, but...

Then there is always the drag racing that gt5 lacks.....its pretty big online as well and actually pertains to cars.

GT5 lacking drag racing? Relevance!

Liveries allow you to make replica race cars, place number plates on cars, sell custom work, auction custom cars. Is it needed, no. But, it is something GT should have by now. Its huge on forza4. If forza 4 didnt have it, everyone would throw a shitfit. Would people throw a shitfit if gt5 didnt have carting?

GT5 should have Liveries, but if Forza 4 doesn't have: NASCAR, Rally, F1, Karts, Weather and Real-Time effects? Nobody would care.

You cant design your own tracks. You can pick predetermended turns and lenghts.

Dismissing the track creator because "you don't really design your own tracks".

The sound isnt pretty poor, it flat out sucks. Its almost SNES bad.

HYPERBOLE!

If Forza can make 500 cars in full detail in two years, why couldnt pd do that over 5 years?

Then what is PDs excuse for not have 500 cars at the same level of Forza 4. They have reused over 50% of its assets from GT4.

Ignore the fact that Forza 4 is the result of 6 years of development, of which most of its assets are carried over from entries that came out 4 years prior. GT5 though? GT5 took 5 years to make!

No matter how you slice it PD was lazy and released gt5 before it was done.

GT5 Dupes? PD IS LAZY. F4 Dupes? "So what, there's dupes!"

There is no F1 in GT5. There are 2 F1 cars with no events and a fictional F1 car and 1 race series.

No you can't. If you're into F1 and have played F1 games you'd see that just by having 2 real F1 cars isn't saying 'there's F1 in this game'. All it is is GT5 having F1 cars.

Just because it has 2 real Ferrari F1 car models without a single race event and a fictional FGT with a racing event isn't saying 'it has F1'.

When GT5 has something F4 doesn't, cuco and evo behave in a similar fashion: dismiss its existence by claiming it's limited (which they do several times in this quote-heavy post)

If you count F1 in GT5 you have to count nascar in F4...which you stated over and over again that it doesnt have because there isnt a nascar license attached to the game.

So besides stickarrzzz you cant tell me a physical difference of the cars? So you dont even know what point you are trying to make other than f4 doesnt have nascar stickers on the cars. Its funny how forza has more stock car racing tracks than a game that advertises stock car racing, and the only people that complain about it in forza have never tried it, have no intention of trying it and cant tell the difference between the cars or tell you any nascar rules in the first place. Hey how do you include nascar in GT5 but not have 1 of the 4 only sponsored makes of cars? Last time I checked NASCAR had Ford, Chevy, Dodge and Toyota. How do you have a real NASCAR race without Dodge?

See what I mean? Are there NASCAR cars in GT5? Yes. Does GT5 have NASCAR? Yes. cuco and evo? NO IT DOESN'T, IT JUST HAS THE CARS YOU GUYS. THAT'S NOT NASCAR. FORZA 4 HAS NASCAR IF GT5 HAS NASCAR BECAUSE FORZA 4 HAS STOCK CARS!

So if I change the motor in a car for forza....should it be considered a new car? Thats what gt5 does.

add a spoiler.....new car.
slight variation of the front bumper with same power train...new car.

Theres literally 12 mitsubishi 3000gts from 95-1998. There is no differences besides badging between the vr4 and the sl. That goes on and on and on througout the list. Just look at it. A good 30% of the cars are number fluff.

Less than 30% of GT5's cars are dupes, between 20 and 25% of F4's cars are dupes. Has evo ever acknowledged it? Nope. Double-standard?

Third, everyone knows PD was padding numbers with redundant cars. Its painfully obvious from the race mods that are not new cars, to the stripe car to 40 gtrs to the 22 nsxs. The only reason you dont see it that way is because you are a fanboy.


Infact you are such a fanboy that you catagorize dlc paint chips that you can only use once to that of dlc cars and tracks. Logical, clearly in the same league.

YOU'RE A FANBOY WHEN YOU DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE PD PADDING NUMBERS. However, if you don't acknowledge Forza 4's padding? You're just bashing GT5 where it deserves. (see below)

Sure they have more types of cars and a better ring, hands down. But neither you or coldfoot have seen anything wrong with GT5 where as myself and cuco have listed multiple things wrong with both games. Whos the fanboy?

But they opted to either not do it and not take a performance hit like gt5 or they couldnt do it because of the xbox limitations that probably would of prevented them from doing it on every track.

Remember guys, GT5 renders at 1280x1080, prior to the 2.03 patch it ran over 30fps (for the most part 50-60fps) with some screen-tearing, and post 2.03 it runs at a stable 60fps with minor tearing, on a PS3. Forza? Forza runs at 1280x720 on a 360, both the PS3 and 360 are arguably on even-ground performance-wise, but somehow when it comes to rain and lighting the 360 can't handle it. WEAKSAUZE.

Nascar in gt5 is more a joke than anything. Sure you can race stock cars, but with no rules or flags or anything that actually makes NASCAR, NASCAR racing, they chose to not even half ass it.....just like wrc. Again maybe t10 decided that if they are not going to do it right, they didnt want to include nascar. I dont know, I dont care. Stock car racing in GT5 < forza 4 without a nascar license. Thats whats really funny.

evo doesn't dismiss things, he acknowledges them and then tells you they're a joke, and half-assed.

Now lets play retard and list everything that f4 has that gt doesnt.....just like you like to do with gt5.

Not gonna set a double-standard here you guys. Nope. We're fair about our criticisms. I mean, your criticism? Bullshit. Mine? FAIR.

solid 60fps
autovista

Your game runs at 50fps? IT'S SHIT. My game is better because it has our equivalent of your photo-mode, except it's 25 cars specifically for this mode! This is relevant. Rally and karts? Not relevant whatsoever!

Imagine Mortal Kombat but only Scoprion, Sub-Zero, Raiden and Shao Kahn have graphics worthy of this gen...while fighting in mortal kombat 3 back drops. People would laugh it off the face of the planet. GT5 gets a pass because its GT5. Call a spade a spade. The real driving simulator....minus very basic important pieces of racing.

I'm going to ignore all the criticisms people have thrown at GT5 and make crazy analogies as to why it sucks. But I still play the game you guys, I'm only being fair about bashing it!

So racing at differnt times only counts for gt5 or if there is timeshift. Gotcha.

I dismiss your game and you take offense? Don't get mad bro, I'm only being fair! You dismiss my game and I take offense? YOU'RE SUCH A FANBOY!

PD and T10 are both guilty at padding car the numbers up, amongst other devs but keep this to just PD and T10. PD however is significantly more guilty of this than T10 is. Just look at the car list. Dupes everywhere. Can anyone tell me what the differences are in all the standard duplicates if the models are 99-100% exactly the same (I've taken a bunch of pics of many R33 and R34 Skyline GT-Rs and didn't see any difference in the car models) and have the same specs? And I don't call 1-3 hp difference as being different since GT5 takes into account magical oil changes. Likewise I don't call putting 20lb difference in the spec as being a different car since weight reductions and ballast system they patched in can put you exactly identical car. I'm not referring to an R34 Spec V GT-R vs the black widebody Blitz R34...

I thought evo was the only one claiming the "99% difference" argument, but cuco's worse. Cars are 100% exactly the same! And specs? Oh, there's a difference, but that doesn't matter you guys, because even though it's there... IT DOESN'T MATTER.

If your output is of lower rez, the game runs better but run it at max glory, on newly modeled 'premium' tracks, with 1 of 200ish (20%) premium cars, with affects and the game can bog bad. PD with v2.03 even cut out spectators and flags out of certain tracks to improve performance, something T10 was chastised for in their Forza games. Call a spade a spade is all I'm sayin..

Call a spade a spade is the cuco and evo catchphrase... Also, this quote is weeks old and I've yet to see cuco provide proof that the game can "bog bad". Cuco doesn't need evidence though.

When 99.9% of car A is the same as 99% of car B down to make model and year you feel justified in calling that a different car? I could understand them doing that for a few cars here and there, but almost half of them are repeat after repeat. If you dont see it, your are obviously turning a blind eye to dev lazyness.

Back to the dupe argument.

Yeah he obviously turned that one. Ive done the test dozens of times now amd that was never a result...even once, not even in the rain. How long did you spend trying to find that? Lol

Ummm yeah it does. Sorry. Do you really think they had to start from scratch to build the 03? LMAO its the same car.

Whoa in 6 years, they added stickarrrasz and a wing! Its a new car. lmao.

Thats two differnet real cars. PD made the RM car. Its not real. You cant buy it anywhere in the game. You have to have your car CUSTOMIZED to become the RM....i.e. your old car becomes a RM. I.E. they add things to an existing model.

Like????? Its the same car with differnet stickarzzzz look at the real cars.

Thats according to you. A reasonable and logical person would realize that pd is trying to pull a fast one over on people..

Let's see: stickers and a wing = not a new car in GT5, but it's irrelevant in F4 to evo. When F4 has dupes? It doesn't matter, but if GT5 has dupes? "PD IS TRYING TO PULL A FAST ONE OVER ON PEOPLE."

GT5 is more guilty of this than T10 or any racing developer, ESPECIALLY since they ported over 80% of cars into their game.

You gotta love how both evo and cuco use percentages against GT5, but if you mention the fact that the percentage of dupes in both games is almost the same? YOU SHOULD POST NUMBERS.

I wouldn't say T10 nor PD are lazy, as I said before. But if we want to point towards laziness, who's lazier here? The team that pads cars up with different liveries while releasing 4 full fledged games in the time between GT4 and GT5 or the team that ported over 80% of car content from last gen and padding car count up with different liveries and the same car models and specs while releasing GT5 in 5+ years?

Ignoring the fact that FM4 is composed of nearly 80% of the content from FM3 which itself was 80% composed of FM2 content, which came out 4 years prior to FM4 and took 2 years to make for a total of 6 years? Check. Also, who's lazier here? The people that port over content from their last game?

Forza does get patches but it's not at any level that GT gets. I could be wrong but I think Forza is on it's 3rd patch including a launch patch and the big 270deg wheel & counter assist bug fix.

Forza's patching? NOT AT THE LEVEL GT GETS (which, by its first major patch some 40 days after it released, was a grand total of 3).

This whole post in general

I'm not defending Forza 'limiting choice'. I'm simply pointing out that GT5 dupes things and you're defending it cuz... well.. that's what you do with GT

Cuco: I'm not defending something because it's in Forza. You're jut defending things because they're in GT!

You're putting GT5 on a pedestal. It has a big collection of cars, as does Forza. But I'm not putting Forza on a pedestal.

Cuco doesn't put Forza on a pedestal.

Funny, a page back cuco said he only wanted to include DLC to point out that there were more dupes in both games, but I distinctly remember him saying:

And I would count DLC in here. Both free and paid as both offer freebies and charge for DLC. DLC was also used as exclusive incentives for buying special editions or preordering from certain stores, so why not include them as well? This would increase both dupe lists, more so on the GT side but that all depends on what you define as a dupe..

Isn't this exactly what I said when I brought it up? You know, how you wanted to include DLC (even the pre-order stuff like the GT-line DLC) to point out that it would show there were MORE dupes on the GT side? Yep.

Indy, oh how wrong you are Mr. Blinders man... oh how wrong you are.. and talk about irony from the person claiming fanboyism, bias, double standard and what not. lulz

If you don't agree with cuco? You are wrong.

There's other examples (I obviously didn't include the 16FPS remark), but you get the point.

Granted, cuco has had his share of fair moments, but the double-standards you 2 have set on this thread is hilarious. I won't lie, I edited out quite a few honest-to-goodness criticisms of GT5 by cuco and some by evo, all of whom have either been recognized and acknowledged, or have simply gone unnoticed (contrary to that whole "any antiGT sentiment gets criticized!" sentiment).,but the overwhelming majority of the posts I've quoted? Are GT5 bashing.

Most of these aren't even in response to other people bashing Forza, YOU TWO are the ones ragging on GT while those of us who are "pro-GT" supporters have done nothing but defend the game. So again, who exactly is being hated on in this thread?

TL;DR

[WellInformed]

Pre-patches

The big difference of course is that in the final game, Polyphony is adding significantly to the processing load by often running more cars than we saw in Prologue, so for the performance to remain in the same ballpark is impressive. Those additional cars require RAM of course, making the achievement all the more impressive: the High Speed Ring course sees the amount of cars running upped from 12 to 16, for example.

Intriguingly, the 1080p mode, processing 50 per cent more pixels than 720p, manages to keep pace very well indeed - sometimes it even outperforms the 720p mode. You'll notice that performance is very much synchronous between the two modes in almost all cases. Yes, there is a small performance deficit (to the tune of around two frames per second on average) and occasionally there is more tearing - but to the human eye there is little that can tell them apart in terms of frame-rate perception.

The 3D mode is a different matter entirely, of course. Polyphony has opted for what is to all intents and purposes a zero-compromise policy to the game's visuals. The Sony stereo 3D team at Evolution Studios has outlined a range of measures developers can take in boosting performance for 3D games, from using dynamic resolution changes to lower-LOD models (Evolution's own MotorStorm: Pacific Rift 3D title employs both tricks). Polyphony, however, has adopted the approach used in WipEout HD - maintain the look of the game (4x MSAA aside) and take the hit in frame-rate.

However, unlike WipEout HD, the frame-rate remains unlocked, giving a somewhat uneven judder to the game. Frame-rate is variable. At its nadir, we see 18FPS on a car-logged Special Stage Route 7, and at best we can see around 50FPS in our Nurburgring test. Chances are that with a track created with the course maker, in concert with a time trial (to eliminate the other cars), we could see this rise to 60FPS - an effective 120FPS throughput!

[cuco33]

Holy

freakin

multi

quoting

anal

dissection

of

every

line

hell

batman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cuco33]

I'm gonna post a TL;DR multiquote post in a little while, but I just wanted to post a choice quote from cuco regarding the whole ISR thing:



ISR who WAS at the time of that post credible according to cuco, is no longer credible. No cuco, there's no double-standard in your posts. None whatsoever.

Nope. I've always made my comments about reviewers not being the end all be all.
Remember? GTR, score of 1, compared to NFS Pro Street?
And ISR I've always said were your average gaming fans of the genre. Never did I harp them up as being this super credible source. I've laughed cuz the once not credible guys are now super credible experts, simply because they noted some things to be better on 1 game without explaining why, and in this exact review contradicted themselves a few times and said some outlandish stuff, like I pointed out just 1 example the beating the AI with a car 3 classes lower
lulz

As I've said before... amazonitus, full swing

[Badger3920]

So anyone want to continue discussion of what's related to this thread? Something in lines with what I've posted rather than crying for double standards and bias

Which is hilarious given that this (whining about hypocrisy) is EXACTLY what you've done 2-3 times over the last two days, spurring this entire discussion. So, what you're complaining about is your own fault - making this ironic and funny

(even though I've already stated I do have a preference many many times but that doesn't mean I don't like playing the other title lol)?

This is rich. So now you ARE admitting to a bias after all that hiding the ball with "who do you think is biased, the guy with both consoles and both games or the guys with only one"


It's getting hard to keep up with your daily reversals. I quit forever; okay I'm back. Screaming about hypocrisy and double standards for two days in a row, but then saying it's offtopic and you don't want to discuss it on the 3rd day. Clean-nosed arbiter of neutrality one day; biased and with a preference the next. All-time saint of taking the high road one day, calling people names the next ('definitive dave', 'deefers', sack riders ETC ETC)

This is all from the obvious diversions, cries of bias and blasphemy, etc

And for one final example, the above sentence is how you chose to end a post where you chose to portray yourself as above the fray and taking the high road. You began with complaining that everyone is off topic except you, and you wanted to get back to business. After that lecturing, you close your post with this sort of antagonistic sentence which promises to nose-dive the thread right back into the discussion you started, and then complained about.


Massive flip-floppage, and throwing stones while living in glass houses from you.

[cuco33]

I think I get it now... folks want to kill this thread. Why else would the continue to go on and on and on and on about discussions not related to the thread topic at hand?
My guess: cuz reality is setting in and being shown for what it really is. Seems I post stuff related to both titles, no one replies. And then we go down the path of crying foul, screaming blasphemy, pointing towards bias and double standard, anally dissecting every freakin sentence of mine (or evo's) but no one ever questions the proGT folk. I mean, as a perfect tried and true example... this whole physics argument of which game does it better. I give many examples, many differences, noting pros and cons and no one, I repeat no one responds back with why they think their preferred platform exclusive title does it better. They simply say it does, now pointing to the once labeled xbot forza fanboys as credible experts and... "because Gran Turismo"
lulz


Thanks for continuing with even more excellent contributions to this thread Badge. Seems you always have something to say here at the good ol' HDD!
lol

[Indy_aka_Rex]

I think I get it now... folks want to kill this thread. Why else would the continue to go on and on and on and on about discussions not related to the thread topic at hand?

Why did you spend nearly a dozen posts complaining about coldfoot and Red and Badger and mich when you could've contributed to the thread? Why is it suddenly "Oh you guise, stay on-topic" whenever your hypocrisy is brought up? I mean, if you can spend post after post talking about how other people have wronged you, why is it suddenly "you guys want this thread to die!" when you're the one being questioned?

My guess: cuz reality is setting in and being shown for what it really is. Seems I post stuff related to both titles, no one replies. And then we go down the path of crying foul, screaming blasphemy, pointing towards bias and double standard, anally dissecting every freakin sentence of mine (or evo's) but no one ever questions the proGT folk.

And like I pointed out: The "proGT folk" aren't the ones doing the bashing on this thread at this point, they're the ones defending. They're the ones enjoying their game, meanwhile you bring up the ISR review just so you can point out how wrong they are because they favored GT over Forza.

I mean, as a perfect tried and true example... this whole physics argument of which game does it better. I give many examples, many differences, noting pros and cons and no one, I repeat no one responds back with why they think their preferred platform exclusive title does it better.

Yep, Dave hasn't at all talked about the physics argument with you, not once.

They simply say it does, now pointing to the once labeled xbot forza fanboys as credible experts and... "because Gran Turismo"

Cuco, go find someone that's used the term "xbot forza fanboy" in the last 6 months in this thread. Go ahead, find someone. I mean, we're the ones labeling you, right? We're the ones using terms like "proGT fanboys" in this thread, right?

Thanks for continuing with even more excellent contributions to this thread Badge. Seems you always have something to say here at the good ol' HDD!
lol

At least Badge doesn't spend pages crying foul whenever his bias is pointed out.

I'm not expecting anything other than you going "OMG MULTIQUOTE, LUL." at this point, because somehow you've decided being an adult no longer matters and you've resolved to playground behavior. "I know you are but what am I!?" is a terrible defense for a grown man to be using.

[cuco33]

there goes that cf and team deefer patrol defense again!


Go back again Indy, since you're being purposely obtuse, and see what I've said as pro GT and anti FM. I mean just the other day I listed like 20 things I didn't like about FM4. 20 things!!! as in TWENTY!!! 20!!
No one replied to it. As in no one. But I'm biased double standard carrying Forza fanboy right? lulz
Instead, folks cry foul ONLY whenever something negative about GT is said. Just look at evo, no one jumped down his throat until he gave his opinion and stated some facts about both games, which didn't favor GT

Sorry I'm not part of the circle jerk, nor have I ever wanted to be


Evo's right, say something negative about GT and you get flacked for it. Just as I pointed out over the years this thread's been in existence.


So does anyone want to actually contribute to the thread, maybe comment on the tons of things posted about both titles, even recent postings related to both titles I've made or do we want to continue sidetracking things ironically crying foul while spiraling it down to oblivion?