Forza vs GT

[evolone]

Nurburgring is obviously noted to be far more realistic layout in GT5.
Laguna Seca has been noted to be more accurate in FM4. Turn 1 isn't the only turn. The corkscrew and the turns after it are more realistic in Forza, but I wouldn't say drastic difference. I think a bigger difference is Nord in FM vs GT but like mentioned, this track asset was brought over from the PGR team who botched it from the get go. Only way Forza will get a more realistic layout is if they start from scratch.

The turns after the corkscrew seem bigger in gt5, as well as pretty much every other turn except turn 1.

[DaveS1138]

I couldnt open it. Was the link bad?

Should be OK. Opens for me.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...CKnHn5AM#gid=0

Also what is with the "real" edge of road / curb setting in gt5? Thats some of the most unrealistic bullshit Ive ever felt in a sim. Its almost instant wipeout from my back wheel hitting a line while Im coasting? WTF? Whoever thought of that needs a new job.

Well...... at least were a long way from your claim that you can drive on the grass and through sand traps with no loss in speed I guess

[DaveS1138]

GT5's tires aren't right. A Mini Cooper S and a C6R Corvette LM racer has the same lateral grip if on the same tire compound. This isn't true at all in reality. GT5 doesn't factor in tire contact patch with the road as the game assumes all tires are same size. Also, no tire pressure adjustments means the tire physics model is assumptions rather than a proper algorithm.

GT5 could certainly do with a new tyre model. It is too limited in what it is doing.....but every tyre physics model is assumptions....you will never model 100% of the variables available so all you can do is build a model based on assumptions. Same for Forza.

You can get close to real grip if you select a tire in the range of 9 tires, going from on ice to super sticky grip.

I'm fine with calling it a sim because although it's missing a lot of what core sims have, I define any sim to be any game that simulates realistic driving with physics that feel real, even if not 100% right.

And matching real world times is great but it isn't the end all be all. There's tons of variables not known and taking the exact car build but just messing with weight and ballast or suspension tuning can get you to match real world times. I'm fine with it but tires and grip in GT5 isn't "right".

It's not just a question of matching real world times....the cars are driving a similarly to their real world counterparts as you can reasonably expect from a console sim.....there are plenty of youtube comparisson videos showing this.

If I am taking a car and matching it's real world time over the course of an 7-8 min lap I thinks thats pretty damn impressive.

[DaveS1138]

Nurburgring is obviously noted to be far more realistic layout in GT5.
Laguna Seca has been noted to be more accurate in FM4. Turn 1 isn't the only turn. The corkscrew and the turns after it are more realistic in Forza, but I wouldn't say drastic difference. I think a bigger difference is Nord in FM vs GT but like mentioned, this track asset was brought over from the PGR team who botched it from the get go. Only way Forza will get a more realistic layout is if they start from scratch.

As you say it doesn't look like a big difference at Leguna

[evolone]

Should be OK. Opens for me.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...CKnHn5AM#gid=0



Well...... at least were a long way from your claim that you can drive on the grass and through sand traps with no loss in speed I guess

It really does hurt you physically that f4 is a better game thang gt5 doesn it? lol

[DaveS1138]

Honestly if forza used a little bit of gt5s tuning, like the adding weight and hp limiter, and allowed you to jump in to free runs online...along with an accurate ring, there would be 0 reason to play gt5 over forza 4.

So long as you only want to race the same types of cars.....only on tarmac....only during the day....only in 100% dry weather.....

If you want to race anything from a racing kart to a formula 1 car....on tarmac, dirt, gravel and snow....in 100% rain to 100% dry....at night or during the day and anywhere in between....on a course that you created yourself and in 3D.....I think maybe GT5 could offer you something more

[DaveS1138]

It really does hurt you physically that f4 is a better game thang gt5 doesn it? lol

In what way is it better?

[evolone]

Re-reading this thread is funny. Kaz said back in early 2009 that the game was ready to be released and they were just adding to it. I wonder what that would of looked like. Id bet ohhh 800 standard cars with 0 premium cars. Also holy banned members from this thread.

[evolone]

Cars behave more realistically in forza4. There is no physics on off switch feeling that you get with gt5.

[DaveS1138]

Cars behave more realistically in forza4. There is no physics on off switch feeling that you get with gt5.

Funny but as much as Cuco likes to champion somebody having played both games being an automatic authority when it comes to commenting.......I think I'll take the word of somebody who claims to be able to drive through sandtraps without loosing any speed and who puts high grip tyres on his cars and then complains that they have too much grip with a pinch of salt

[evolone]

Funny but as much as Cuco likes to champion somebody having played both games being an automatic authority when it comes to commenting.......I think I'll take the word of somebody who claims to be able to drive through sandtraps without loosing any speed and who puts high grip tyres on his cars and then complains that they have too much grip with a pinch of salt

Wow bro selective reading much? Ive already told you that it was in the beginning races with half the updates done. You know the game is differernt for beginners right? You know the whole unlock damage thing ect ect?

Oh and I already agreed with you that racing mediums was too much tire for the zl1, I dont know what else you could want. Get over yourself dude. You're an okay guy until anyone tries to talk any sort of shit on gt5. Its going to be okay in the end I promise.

[DaveS1138]

Wow bro selective reading much? Ive already told you that it was in the beginning races with half the updates done. You know the game is differernt for beginners right? You know the whole unlock damage thing ect ect?

Oh and I already agreed with you that racing mediums was too much tire for the zl1, I dont know what else you could want. Get over yourself dude. You're an okay guy until anyone tries to talk any sort of shit on gt5. Its going to be okay in the end I promise.

You don't unlock damage....that's a myth carried over from the first review copies of GT5 when people couldn't understand why damage happened differently on different types of cars.

You also don't unlock sticky sandtraps.

BTW. Check out the new time trials added to the seasonal events today......500PP American cars.....they added that one just for you

[evolone]

So long as you only want to race the same types of cars.....only on tarmac....only during the day....only in 100% dry weather.....

If you want to race anything from a racing kart to a formula 1 car....on tarmac, dirt, gravel and snow....in 100% rain to 100% dry....at night or during the day and anywhere in between....on a course that you created yourself and in 3D.....I think maybe GT5 could offer you something more

Same ol song and dance.

I would rather have a solid core game that does things right, than one that dabbles in doing things right, but takes on more than it can chew...which is painfully obvious if you play nord with timeshift and multiple cars.

You don't unlock damage....that's a myth carried over from the first review copies of GT5 when people couldn't understand why damage happened differently on different types of cars.

You also don't unlock sticky sandtraps.

BTW. Check out the new time trials added to the seasonal events today......500PP American cars.....they added that one just for you

Look bro, I dont know how to make this any clearer, when I was in the begining races, going off the track didnt seem to do shit. maybe it was because it was already a pos car I didnt want to drive, but it is what it is. I know what I experienced when I played the game.

The game has changed so much since launch, I dont know what else to tell you.

[DaveS1138]

Last night I turned the PS3 on and there were 2 updates. 1 for PS3 and 1 for GT5.
While downloading/installing, cuz it took forever last night, I went on gtp to read what the game was patched up for

Seems the same things as patching GT5 like before. Fix things broken in game or from previous patches, introduces new broken things... lol
They apparently "fixed" the wrong weight of the '66 Beetle released in the last DLC.

http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=240180

Sounds like they FINALLY addressed the issue of the high speed wobble on the Logitech wheels.
That could get annoying as all hell in the faster cars.

[cuco33]

GT5 could certainly do with a new tyre model. It is too limited in what it is doing.....but every tyre physics model is assumptions....you will never model 100% of the variables available so all you can do is build a model based on assumptions. Same for Forza.

Agreed. But GT5 assumes things that are not possible in their tire model because their tire model is limited with more assumptions tossed in. It's more of a grip modifier when racing on certain tire compounds and/or in rain, dirt, snow, etc. Like there shouldn't be the same lateral grip if on same tire compound in a Mini or in a C6R Vette. The assumption being made is that all cars have the same tire contact patch with the road.

It's not just a question of matching real world times....the cars are driving a similarly to their real world counterparts as you can reasonably expect from a console sim.....there are plenty of youtube comparisson videos showing this.

If I am taking a car and matching it's real world time over the course of an 7-8 min lap I thinks thats pretty damn impressive.

Well, they drive similarly, so long as you aren't in the low speed physics zone, amongst other faults that GT's physics has. To me it's real enough, close enough and why it's impressive but someone on another board I'm on got a close VW R32 Nord time in game as compared to real life and he has tracked his own R32 and stated it drives nothing like the real thing.