PS3 soon to get another gaming "masterpiece"

[Shadow1019]

I'm sure everyone saw this from a couple days ago, but since I'm such a big fan of Ico and Shadow of the Colossus and there are reports that their next game is very close to being revealed (TGS?), I thought I would post this for praise or ridicule by our little community here.

Basically, the director of Pan's Labyrinth (and Hellboy), appears to be a pretty knowledgeable video game fan. In an interview, he discusses all sorts of games he likes. The interviewer mentions Bioshock, and he has this to say:

I absolutely loved BioShock. I loved the world, the design, the lighting, the beautiful art direction and cinematography.

A very glowing appraisal, no doubt. But, when it comes to gaming masterpieces, Del Toro makes it absolutely clear:

There are only two games I consider masterpieces: Ico and Shadow of the Colossus.

http://www.edge-online.com/magazine/...r-talks-gaming

As much as I hate to bring Team Ico down to the level of the PS3 v 360 war (Team Ico transcends both consoles), this thread needs to be Smackdown worthy. So, for that reason, why doesn't the Xbox or Xbox 360 have any gaming masterpieces? The Playstation 2 has both Ico and SOTC and the PS3 will most obviously have Team Ico's next masterpiece (yes, I know it's way too early to call the new game a masterpiece since we know virtually nothing about it).

Or maybe you think the Xbox brand does have masterpieces. Is Halo 3 a masterpiece? What about Fable? Are there any 360 masterpieces on the horizon that will bring the critical acclaim that Team Ico has helped bring to the Playstation brand? What qualifies as a "masterpiece?" Bring your arguments and make them good!

[Snadinator]

Largely subjective...

MGS4 or Bioshock can easily be considered Masterpieces.

Ocarina of Time is a Masterpiece IMO.

Braid is a Masterpiece IMO.

Alan Wake sounds like it might, but it's too far to tell.

[BBM128]

Depends on the genre...

Obviously, a first person shooter and third person shooter NEEDS to be intense and it'd be nice to flesh out a solid atmosphere for the game. Storyline are helpful, though. A subdued experience is absolutely lame since it becomes easier to survive in situations where little is going on.

For Hack 'n' Slash games, it's all about speed. But at the same time, the player needs the game to not obstruct them. Ninja Gaiden, for example, is marred by poor camera and often unfair enemies. Devil May Cry and God of War, however... Not so much a problem with them, because they are GOLDEN! . Essentially, let the game run without interfering with the player.

RPGs need to focus more on storyline than anything else. The world in which the game takes place needs to exude polishedness. But also, the story needs to be told well. Good dialouge with good voice acting is absolutely key. It's always nice to have in-depth character development (something Lost Odyssey, for example has been good at doing, even if not for everyone, thus far in my experience with it).

If I had to pick three current-gen masterpieces (or at least closest things to masterpieces), one for each genre I laid out, it'd be a no brainer...

Shooter: Call of Duty 4. Intense single player experience from the moment you start the first mission to the end of the game. Alright multiplayer, but a game that just never lets up. I've always called COD4 the game that Halo 3 was promised to be. And it's almost just that. (Doesn't cure cancer, though. )

Hack 'n' Slash: Devil May Cry 4. Doesn't get in the players way, allows for fun, fast-paced encounters, and just endless, mindless demon-slashing fun. AI may be lacking but DMC4 does deliver the goods when it comes to fun-factor.

RPG: Lost Odyssey. Gotta go with LO, on this one. The world is fleshed out well enough, I'm impressed with the detail of the storytelling of the dreams, the dialogue is voiced well and well written. And it's a throw back to old school RPGs of yore. I definitely need to get further through this game, though.

Of course, it's all my opinion, feel free to disagree, though. (Also, noticed that the three games I mentioned are all games on the 360... )

[Shadow1019]

Originally Posted by Snadinator

Largely subjective...

MGS4 or Bioshock can easily be considered Masterpieces.

Ocarina of Time is a Masterpiece IMO.

Braid is a Masterpiece IMO.

Alan Wake sounds like it might, but it's too far to tell.

I'm looking forward to Braid and I've certainly heard it's excellent (I've got a backlog of downloadable games to get to). As much as I love MGS4, I don't think I'd put it up as an equal to Ico and SOTC. I am looking forward to Bioshock since the demo is all I've had to experience so far (too many games last fall). Ocarina of Time is certainly good, but I don't know if the story and emotion in the game is enough to make it a "masterpiece" - at least in the sense that I think Del Toro is using the word.

But, we're teetering on the edge of the Game Room and I think I hear the fee-fi-fo-thumb of michaelo. So, back to the smackdown, why doesn't the 360 have any (exclusive) masterpieces?

[balpho]

Well you should be asking "why doesn't that 360 have any masterpieces in this man's opinion?"

Which the answer for that would be "How the heck should we know? We're not him, and therefore can't make arguments for or against his opinion, other than our own opinion"

I know you wanted to make this smackdown, but frankly it's pretty weak

[crazzeto]

For me the Halo 1 & 3 (particularly playing Halo 1 the first time) qualify, Bioshock I'm enjoying but still up in the air about. I agree with braid, as far as Zelda's Twilight Princess gets my vote over Ocerina.

I think Gears *might* have been if they concentrated a bit more on story... They got the game play right, but there wasn't enough information about why we were fighting to really propell it up there. Perhaps Gears 2 will fill in those gaps and make it? Who knows.

I have to admit, for as much as playing the games fustrate me the Resident Evil series (almost all games) make the list. It's a love hate thing with me as far as those games... I love the concept, I love the story, I hate the fact that almost every where I turn some damn zombie is chewing out my corodid artery lol. But something about them just force me to keep picking the controller back up anyway.

[HamsterDance]

Originally Posted by BBM128

RPG: Lost Odyssey. Gotta go with LO, on this one. The world is fleshed out well enough, I'm impressed with the detail of the storytelling of the dreams, the dialogue is voiced well and well written. And it's a throw back to old school RPGs of yore. I definitely need to get further through this game, though.

Of course, it's all my opinion, feel free to disagree, though. (Also, noticed that the three games I mentioned are all games on the 360... )

With RPG's I would have to go with Oblivion. I have played that game for over 100 hours. I don't even know if you can play LO for 100 hours. I don't know because I only completed the first two discs.

[Snadinator]

Originally Posted by sholmes1019

I'm looking forward to Braid and I've certainly heard it's excellent (I've got a backlog of downloadable games to get to). As much as I love MGS4, I don't think I'd put it up as an equal to Ico and SOTC. I am looking forward to Bioshock since the demo is all I've had to experience so far (too many games last fall). Ocarina of Time is certainly good, but I don't know if the story and emotion in the game is enough to make it a "masterpiece" - at least in the sense that I think Del Toro is using the word.

But, we're teetering on the edge of the Game Room and I think I hear the fee-fi-fo-thumb of michaelo. So, back to the smackdown, why doesn't the 360 have any (exclusive) masterpieces?

Well if your using ICO as the only proper reference, then the PS3 doesn't yet have on either... hahaha.

Braid is seriously great. It twists your brain! IMO it is a masterpiece. A game doesn't have to be a retail high budget to be in this category.

For me a masterpiece must bring something that transcends thought, gendre and emotion. I can't think of many games that would even come close.

Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn on the PC for me is a total Masterpiece.
As is Planescape: Torment. <--- read up on wiki about that one and the dialog in it.

For Shooters, IMO there is only Bioshock and Half-Life 2.

I really think Alan Wake could be one, but it's way too soon to go there.

[Snadinator]

Originally Posted by crazzeto

For me the Halo 1 & 3 (particularly playing Halo 1 the first time) qualify, Bioshock I'm enjoying but still up in the air about. I agree with braid, as far as Zelda's Twilight Princess gets my vote over Ocerina.

I think Gears *might* have been if they concentrated a bit more on story... They got the game play right, but there wasn't enough information about why we were fighting to really propell it up there. Perhaps Gears 2 will fill in those gaps and make it? Who knows.

I have to admit, for as much as playing the games fustrate me the Resident Evil series (almost all games) make the list. It's a love hate thing with me as far as those games... I love the concept, I love the story, I hate the fact that almost every where I turn some damn zombie is chewing out my corodid artery lol. But something about them just force me to keep picking the controller back up anyway.

Your going off what makes a game fun.
There is a difference. We are asking what is the Citizen Kane of gaming.

[Shadow1019]

Originally Posted by balpho

Well you should be asking "why doesn't that 360 have any masterpieces in this man's opinion?"

Which the answer for that would be "How the heck should we know? We're not him, and therefore can't make arguments for or against his opinion, other than our own opinion"

I know you wanted to make this smackdown, but frankly it's pretty weak

Del Toro's quote is just a good setup for the post. It's undisputed that Ico and SOTC are consistently mentioned as two of the most emotional, unique and masterful gaming experience in the last 10 years (if not in gaming overall).

So, the question remains: what games (if any) on the 360 or original Xbox are worthy of being compared to Ico and SOTC?

[Badger3920]

I'd say that the only artistic game out this gen, so beyond excellence that it's deserving of being called a masterpiece, and will be looked back upon from future generations as a pinnacle of excellence for this time, is likely MGS4.

I think people are starting to get sick of hearing about MGS4, and so the effect and will to discuss it isn't as strong with them as it used to be -- but this definitely doesn't take away from where most of us probably feel it's status should lie. It simply goes above and beyond

[Shadow1019]

Originally Posted by Snadinator

Your going off what makes a game fun.
There is a difference. We are asking what is the Citizen Kane of gaming.

Exactly. Snadinator is right on target with what we mean by "masterpiece" (at least in terms of this thread). COD4, for example, is certainly a gaming masterpiece of sorts, but it's nowhere near the same category of why Ico and SOTC are masterpieces. And vice-versa.

[balpho]

Bioshock has widely so far been regarding as a gaming and artistic masterpiece. You can't argue that

[Snarky]

How long have we waited on the announcement of the Team Ico Project(TBA)?

[Snadinator]

Originally Posted by Badger3920

I'd say that the only artistic game out this gen, so beyond excellence that it's deserving of being called a masterpiece, and will be looked back upon from future generations as a pinnacle of excellence for this time, is likely MGS4.

I think people are starting to get sick of hearing about MGS4, and so the effect and will to discuss it isn't as strong with them as it used to be -- but this definitely doesn't take away from where most of us probably feel it's status should lie. It simply goes above and beyond

But the story is very corny and in the end, forgettable. Despite it's grerat production values and entertainment it provides, it's not a Citizen Kane.

I get what Sholmes is saying.

The problem is, games like Okami, Shadows, Ico, Braid (IMO) don't sell so well. These kinds of games don't appeal to the general crowd. Most people buy up the latest shooter like how people pay to see Transformers.