Why the PS3 still kinda sucks

[Da Man]

MS spouted a bunch of BS about ANA/HANA being this magical scalar when its just the video I/O chip. An employee of ATI confirmed that Xenos does all the scaling.

[crazzeto]

Originally Posted by Gbeav

I say buy a new HDTV and watch sports in 720p like it was meant to be. That first guy that bought a Pontiac Fiero was an idiot too.

yeah, because everyone in the world is just jumping up and down at the oppertunity to ditch a sevearl thousand dollar TV that has nothing wrong with it and likely provides an excellent picture just so they can hook a playstation 3 up to it and not be forced to game in SD because Sony is too cheap to allow their GPU to do a little upscaling...

I have a better suggestion for people finding them selves in this situation. Sell your PS3 and buy an x-box 360, you'll be happier and it's a much cheaper propasition.

[james]

Originally Posted by Da Man

MS spouted a bunch of BS about ANA/HANA being this magical scalar when its just the video I/O chip. An employee of ATI confirmed that Xenos does all the scaling.

Do you have a link? It's not a challenge to what you are saying, I just want to read the article.

[Snarky]

Originally Posted by Da Man

MS spouted a bunch of BS about ANA/HANA being this magical scalar when its just the video I/O chip. An employee of ATI confirmed that Xenos does all the scaling.

Then why can't the RSX or Cell do it properly?

[Gbeav]

Originally Posted by crazzeto

yeah, because everyone in the world is just jumping up and down at the oppertunity to ditch a sevearl thousand dollar TV that has nothing wrong with it and likely provides an excellent picture just so they can hook a playstation 3 up to it and not be forced to game in SD because Sony is too cheap to allow their GPU to do a little upscaling...

I have a better suggestion for people finding them selves in this situation. Sell your PS3 and buy an x-box 360, you'll be happier and it's a much cheaper propasition.

Try several hundred.

[Arthur Hucksake]

Originally Posted by Gbeav

You're nuts and your eyes are screwed up. I'd bet Sony doesn't allow it so developers don't cheap out and go for only a 1080i signal that uses 540p art.

Forcing 1080p on a 360 is pure marketing. A real 720p screen will always look better than an upscaled 1080p picture.

Give you an example.

Battlefield Bad Company looks better on the 360 when set to 1080p than the PS3 version on 720p, and your perfect eyes are obviously disputing that info with the seven other people I have shown who agree.

Happens with alot of other games too, albeit some it makes no difference at all.

My TV just seems to work really well with games upscaled on the 360 and ironically its a Sony Bravia.

Also alot of PS3 games looked pretty washed out on this set, have to tamper with the settings alot. The 360 always looks more vibrant although sometimes not as sharp.

[Gbeav]

Originally Posted by Arthur Hucksake

Give you an example.

Battlefield Bad Company looks better on the 360 when set to 1080p than the PS3 version on 720p, and your perfect eyes are obviously disputing that info with the seven other people I have shown who agree.

Happens with alot of other games too, albeit some it makes no difference at all.

My TV just seems to work really well with games upscaled on the 360 and ironically its a Sony Bravia.

Also alot of PS3 games looked pretty washed out on this set, have to tamper with the settings alot. The 360 always looks more vibrant although sometimes not as sharp.

Battlefield looks bad to me on all settings. Really bad.

[crazzeto]

Originally Posted by Gbeav

Try several hundred.

?? I take it you're mistakingly making bad judgements based on these TV's being bought at today's prices? I have a friend who bought just such a TV (42" panny CRT) 2/3 years ago for $1,200. I'm sorry, there's nothing wrong with that TV and it offers one hell of a picture, sounds to me like they have the right idea avoiding the PS3 and just sticking with their Wii60 and colleciton of nearly every other major console back to the NES.

[Snarky]

Originally Posted by Gbeav

Battlefield looks bad to me on all settings. Really bad.

That game is badass.

[Gbeav]

Originally Posted by crazzeto

?? I take it you're mistakingly making bad judgements based on these TV's being bought at today's prices? I have a friend who bought just such a TV (42" panny CRT) 2/3 years ago for $1,200. I'm sorry, there's nothing wrong with that TV and it offers one hell of a picture, sounds to me like they have the right idea avoiding the PS3 and just sticking with their Wii60 and colleciton of nearly every other major console back to the NES.

Then they made the correct choice. The 360 is perfect for them. And I doubt they bought that 2/3 years ago, unless it was out the back of a van.

[Gbeav]

Originally Posted by Snarky

That game is badass.

Not feeling it, sorry. But that's okay.

edit: the NHL 09 demo is awesome!

[crazzeto]

Originally Posted by Gbeav

Then they made the correct choice. The 360 is perfect for them. And I doubt they bought that 2/3 years ago, unless it was out the back of a van.

Your doubts are baseless, that is what happend... They got married 2/3 years ago, bought a house and with a little extra on the mortgage they picked up a few little extra's for the house including the Panny CRT for $1,200.

[Gbeav]

Originally Posted by crazzeto

Your doubts are baseless, that is what happend... They got married 2/3 years ago, bought a house and with a little extra on the mortgage they picked up a few little extra's for the house including the Panny CRT for $1,200.

Okay fine, they bought it 2/3 years ago.

Happy?

[Da Man]

Here is my source. This guy works at ATI so I believe him. I don't have any real evidence of RSXs scalar not being able to scale vertically (some game developers post there but NDAs prevent them from outright saying stuff) but fact that SDK only allows horizontal scaling and Nvidia screwed up before (NV40 has a broken video decode) is enough for me to believe it (If the 65nm RSX PS3 can scale anything that will pretty much confirm it). To do 1080 on the PS3 the developer either has get the Cell to do upscale or add 960x1080 support (thats about a 10% higher res that 720P). Both options take resources away from the game. And not all devs know about this issue either as it took a comment in a blog post to get it in Uncharted.

[james]

Originally Posted by Da Man

Here is my source. This guy works at ATI so I believe him. I don't have any real evidence of RSXs scalar not being able to scale vertically (some game developers post there but NDAs prevent them from outright saying stuff) but fact that SDK only allows horizontal scaling and Nvidia screwed up before (NV40 has a broken video decode) is enough for me to believe it (If the 65nm RSX PS3 can scale anything that will pretty much confirm it). To do 1080 on the PS3 the developer either has get the Cell to do upscale or add 960x1080 support (thats about a 10% higher res that 720P). Both options take resources away from the game. And not all devs know about this issue either as it took a comment in a blog post to get it in Uncharted.

The last part confuses me. Is there specific hardware on the GPU or on the 360's mobo?

Xenos was the first implementation of the Avivo display engine and the scaler is used from the display pipeline there. But, yes, there is specific hardware to do it.

http://www.beyond3d.com/images/revie...o/pipe-big.jpg

Xenos would be providing the "display pipelines" functionality in the diagram above (although I suspect that the logic would be limited to 1 display).