Why the PS3 still kinda sucks

[crazzeto]

Originally Posted by Dennis M.

The bold part is true. But Sony sold this "junk" too...
Anyway, I think they should make 1080i support via software upscaling mandatory.

Were these early HDTVs popular in America? If I'm not mistaken they weren't sold anywhere else.

You know, there's a reason why HDM players always default to 1080i mode, because it's the safest mode to drop them in. Why PS3 games wouldn't all support the resolution is well.... Bizzar... I never understood the concept of consoles not being able to output all games at STD TV resolutions....

[Gunter]

Originally Posted by crazzeto

You know, there's a reason why HDM players always default to 1080i mode, because it's the safest mode to drop them in.

No, it's a legacy mode. All modern HDTV's accept 1080i, in addition to 720p and maybe 1080p.

[Arthur Hucksake]

I have to admit, it's quite annoying that I can't force 1080p for some games on the PS3. I've bought 360 versions after for this very reason and personally find they look better upscaled.

[ferrando]

Originally Posted by crzyone01

So it's a bit harsh title, but anyways.... why can't they update the damn thing to include upscaling??? The problem is not with my a/v setup but I recently convined my cousin to go the PS3 route instead of 360(mainly since he likes MLB, and The Show is really fun). He calls me after setting it up asking why supposed to be awesome new system is displaying his games only in 480. Come to find out that the games he's trying to play are mostly EA titles that only support 720P and his TV only has 1080i support. I have to explain to him that the system I told him to buy won't perform a simple feature like upscaling. Partially it is my fault for not recognizing his TV only does 1080i(57 inch Sony).

I never gave much attention to the issue before unti lnow, I know it's old news but you don't really see the issue until it affects you or someone you know.

Since this has turned into a pissing match between 360 and PS3 fans, I'd like to try and address the issue. Have your cousin set the output resolutions thru the system menu to ONLY 1080i. Uncheck all the 480 options. This will force the PS3 to output the game at 1080i... this is no cure-all, and causes some games to not look appropriate (ie, don't force 1080p in CoD4 like I have done, because everyone will be squished), but it's worth the 30 seconds it takes to make that change... and yes, there is a scaler in the PS3 as someone has pointed out, with developers given access to only half of its abilities.

1080i itself is a legacy spec, and is being phased-out just as CRT sets are going the way of the dinosaur (like it or not, they likely won't exist very shortly into the future). With the sunsetting of CRTs, 1080i terminology will be left to only a broadcast standard, with that perhaps changing in the future to 720p or even the notion of 1080p, after all LCDs and Plasmas are inherently progressive, and there really is no "1080i" LCD or Plasma, just a lot of false advertising.

[Darkfalz]

Originally Posted by Arthur Hucksake

I have to admit, it's quite annoying that I can't force 1080p for some games on the PS3. I've bought 360 versions after for this very reason and personally find they look better upscaled.

Indeed.

For a company that made the claim that they're system is the only 'True' HD system, it's pretty pathetic that they can't just scale any content to fit any HDTV display... pretty pathetic indeed... 360's scaling chip is actually quite high quality too, considering the cost... so upscaled games do look pretty darn good, even if they're not natively 1080p.

[crazzeto]

Originally Posted by Gunter

No, it's a legacy mode. All modern HDTV's accept 1080i, in addition to 720p and maybe 1080p.

......

Thanks for the rebuttle that actually reinforces what I just said...

[Gbeav]

Originally Posted by Arthur Hucksake

I have to admit, it's quite annoying that I can't force 1080p for some games on the PS3. I've bought 360 versions after for this very reason and personally find they look better upscaled.

You're nuts and your eyes are screwed up. I'd bet Sony doesn't allow it so developers don't cheap out and go for only a 1080i signal that uses 540p art.

Forcing 1080p on a 360 is pure marketing. A real 720p screen will always look better than an upscaled 1080p picture.

[crazzeto]

Originally Posted by Gbeav

You're nuts and your eyes are screwed up. I'd bet Sony doesn't allow it so developers don't cheap out and go for only a 1080i signal that uses 540p art.

Forcing 1080p on a 360 is pure marketing. A real 720p screen will always look better than an upscaled 1080p picture.

So... The best solution is to give people who own 1080i TV's (incompatible with 720P) the middle finger? That's brilliant.

[Gbeav]

Originally Posted by crazzeto

So... The best solution is to give people who own 1080i TV's (incompatible with 720P) the middle finger? That's brilliant.

I call it bold, not brilliant.

1080i only HDTV's were a first generation screwup on all manufacturers that dabbled in cheap CRT hdtv's if I am not mistaken.

People got them because they were a percentage of the cost of real HDTV's, they got screwed and they did it to themselves.

[Darkfalz]

Originally Posted by Gbeav

The 360 doesn't have a scaling chip you twat. It uses the GPU.

http://arstechnica.com/articles/headstart.ars/2

"We call it Ana. This is the scaling chip that's in the 360,"

"It was apparently designed at the same time as the GPU [read: NOT the GPU itself], and the effortless scaling with different televisions was something that was important from the early design stages of the system."



Gbeav, please don't speak about that which you don't understand and have no comprehension about.

[Gbeav]

Originally Posted by Darkfalz

http://arstechnica.com/articles/headstart.ars/2

"We call it Ana. This is the scaling chip that's in the 360,"

"It was apparently designed at the same time as the GPU [read: NOT the GPU itself], and the effortless scaling with different televisions was something that was important from the early design stages of the system."

Wrong, go find something closer to 2008, preferably late 2008. It's a gfx interface only. Google is not your friend.

[james]

Originally Posted by Darkfalz

http://arstechnica.com/articles/headstart.ars/2

"We call it Ana. This is the scaling chip that's in the 360,"

"It was apparently designed at the same time as the GPU [read: NOT the GPU itself], and the effortless scaling with different televisions was something that was important from the early design stages of the system."

There are also these articles:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/06/z...-and-personal/
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/05/me...rdware-scaler/

But, then we have Eurogamer saying that MS confirmed there wasn't one:

http://digg.com/xbox/Xbox_360_has_no...Microsoft_lied

There is a lot of conflicting information out there. Which is it? Who at MS confirmed there wasn't one?

I can't find the information.

[crazzeto]

Originally Posted by Gbeav

I call it bold, not brilliant.

1080i only HDTV's were a first generation screwup on all manufacturers that dabbled in cheap CRT hdtv's if I am not mistaken.

People got them because they were a percentage of the cost of real HDTV's, they got screwed and they did it to themselves.

I call it retarded the part of Sony, they're giving their customers the middle finger... That's retarded and it reflects badly (not positivly no matter how much you try to spin) on the platform. Scale the f'n graphics for gods sake.

[Gbeav]

Originally Posted by crazzeto

I call it retardedn the part of Sony, they're giving their customers the middle finger... That's retarded and it reflects badly (not positivly no matter how much you try to spin) on the platform. Scale the f'n graphics for gods sake.

I say buy a new HDTV and watch sports in 720p like it was meant to be. That first guy that bought a Pontiac Fiero was an idiot too.

[james]

Originally Posted by james

There are also these articles:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/06/z...-and-personal/
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/05/me...rdware-scaler/

But, then we have Eurogamer saying that MS confirmed there wasn't one:

http://digg.com/xbox/Xbox_360_has_no...Microsoft_lied

There is a lot of conflicting information out there. Which is it? Who at MS confirmed there wasn't one?

I can't find the information.

We have Microsoft's Amir Majidimehr saying the Ars Technica Article is wrong:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10791437

Quote:
Hana (or ANA) is not used for scaling in 360. Instead, the graphics processor (GPU) is used to do the scaling. I won't disclose the internals of the filter but it is not bilinear at all. It is much more sophisticated than that with far more taps. Given where the hardware is, the scaling logic is the same in both products.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10796096

Quote:
The [Ars Technica] article is wrong unfortunately. HANA/ANA are video encoders, not scalars.

Can anybody put this confusion to bed once and for all?