Finally PS3 price change in Canada!

[Thulium]

Originally Posted by Blurry

Yesss? I am not sure how that is relevant, just running javascript by itself does not provide much, it is as part of a larger structure (such as a web browser or iHD) that it is useful as a way of customizing functionality.

The point is that HD DVD fanboys speak as if iHD is somehow better than BD-J. There is absolutely nothing you can do with iHD that you can't do with BD-J. There is plenty you can do with BD-J that you'll never be able to do with iHD. Javascript is a subset scripting language, whereas Java is a full programming language. It's ludicrous to act as if Javascript is in any way "better" than Java.

This is one of the things I don't like about Blu-ray. The fundamental requirments for HD DVD were for the most part mapped out at the very beginning, including network support, dual stream decoding and a dynamic interactive capability that not only brings these things together but also allows for much broader capabilities on the net (as discussed earlier).

If first gen Blu-ray players won't be able to provide support for future directions such as provided by Profile 1.1 and 2 then they should never have released those players that could only play back BD 1 in the first place.

That seems like a reasonable opinion, but still a matter marketing preference. It remains to be seen which proves to be the better strategy: Basically BDA set the bar higher than they knew they could reach in the short term but set a roadmap to get there. Whereas DVDF's approach was to make the full potential available in the first generation.

We've pretty much seen the limit of what can be done with HD DVD and the X-Box 360 as well. Blu-ray and the PS3 are the newer, better technology that even brand new are running on par with the competition, even though they have yet to unleash even half of the full potential.

The idea behind the approach taken by HD DVD was to "win" by having the lower price. The approach taken by Blu-ray is to have the greater potential, and pump the hardware and software with as much support as possible in order to fend off HD DVD long enough to make up the price differential.

The problem that HD DVD is having is that, so far, they've been unable to really exploit the major differentiation over Blu-ray: Price.

As to your point concerning the PS3 being able to handle all of this, you are correct. I personally think it is almost foolish to buy anything other than a PS3 for Blu-ray playback at the moment. But that also means Blu-ray's fate is truly intrinsically linked to the PS3. I personally don't want to buy a PS3 for movie playback and I am waiting for a better alternative before I add Blu-ray capabilities to my Home Theatre.

Fair enough, but why would you not want a PS3 for movie playback? I don't quite understand that part. Do you not care for the visual aesthetic of the player? (Personally I *LOVE* the shiny black--IMO, it's the best looking piece of equipment in my home theatre) The $500 PS3 compares favorably against even more expensive HD DVD players. For example, you have to spend $800+ to get HDMI 1.3 for HD DVD.

I think Blu-ray is becoming the PS3 format and as such will probably not appeal to a broader range of consumers in the long run.

Why would you think a "Playstation" format would not appeal to a broad range of consumers. 120 Million Playstation2 owners seems like a pretty broad range to me. I'm not saying that every PS2 owner will buy a PS3, I'm saying that there are at LEAST 120 million homes that see the Playstation brand as a viable part of their home entertainment.

[Blurry]

Originally Posted by Thulium

There is absolutely nothing you can do with iHD that you can't do with BD-J. There is plenty you can do with BD-J that you'll never be able to do with iHD. Javascript is a subset scripting language, whereas Java is a full programming language. It's ludicrous to act as if Javascript is in any way "better" than Java.

You keep talking about javascript as if that is all that iHD is, this makes you sound naive. ECMA Script (javascript is the form of ECMA Script used by web browsers) is a flexible scripting language which knows how to interact with containers in diverse ways (this allows it to work with the iHD extended XML/HTML containers), however it is just a small piece of the iHD equation.

Using iHD you can build very flexible UIs using simple XML based markup languages. You do not need ECMA Script for most tasks just as you can build a fairly complex web ui with minimal use of Javascript. Where iHD adds power though HD DVD is:

1. It has guaranteed Dual Decoders built in and can leverage them directly by just super-imposing iHD elements on top of the core video element and the various properties of this superimposed element can be manipulated via ECMA Script (ie. change location size, etc) or can use scripting to control other elements (such as the video stream - an iHD element can pause the main video on demand, for example).

2. It is relatively easy for content providers to use authoring tools to build extremely varied UIs plus they can leverage the skills of a vast army of available web content designers to create rich experiences - since iHD is built on top of the tools that they are already trained in, it is an easy step.

3. Where iHD has barely scratched the surface is network capabilities. Web content tools were designed from the ground up to be efficient over the net. This means that an HD DVD player connected to the internet can immediately leverage iHD to efficiently access remote content which can also be extremely varied since they are also built on iHD.

We've pretty much seen the limit of what can be done with HD DVD and the X-Box 360 as well. Blu-ray and the PS3 are the newer, better technology that even brand new are running on par with the competition, even though they have yet to unleash even half of the full potential.

The idea behind the approach taken by HD DVD was to "win" by having the lower price. The approach taken by Blu-ray is to have the greater potential, and pump the hardware and software with as much support as possible in order to fend off HD DVD long enough to make up the price differential.

I have to disagree with you. We have barely scratched the surface with what can be done with HD DVD. Just the networking potential alone is enormous. This is like saying that what we saw with the web in the early days with pretty much static content defined all of the web's potential - it has come a long way since, and those same skills and tools that have been developed can be used to enrich HD DVD content.

The concept of HD DVD was to win by bringing better value to the consumer. Designing the fundamental requirements at the beginning so that first generation buyers need not be left out by future developments. I have to say that I LOVE the concept of iHD and it will be very difficult to attain the same capabilities with just BD-JAVA.

Blu-ray's "strategy" to win was to trojan horse the system into the PS3 so they would not have to compete on pure technical and value merits. This strategy is indeed working, but in my opinion sets a VERY bad precedent. Is this the new way to compete with new technologies? Does this mean the next generations of consoles (and potentially other products) are going to start building in marginally related fledgling technologies just so they can can take advantage of their customers to carry the onus of market penetration? It seems to me this could have disastrous consequences by bypassing normal market evaluation of a product by just getting it into customers' homes under false pretenses.

And on top of that, it is going to force Microsoft and other industry leaders to follow suite with other technologies.

Fair enough, but why would you not want a PS3 for movie playback? I don't quite understand that part. Do you not care for the visual aesthetic of the player? (Personally I *LOVE* the shiny black--IMO, it's the best looking piece of equipment in my home theatre) The $500 PS3 compares favorably against even more expensive HD DVD players. For example, you have to spend $800+ to get HDMI 1.3 for HD DVD.

Because I already have a 360 gaming console in the family room. I don't want to be duped by Sony's crossover marketing tactics to buy into their console stakes just because I want to play HD movies. Besides, in my home theatre room I would rather have dedicated components (like my A1) than a gaming machine which does not even properly work with my 1080i only TV, does not come with a remote, and the only remote that can be purchased is not backlit and cannot be programmed into a universal remote.

Why would you think a "Playstation" format would not appeal to a broad range of consumers. 120 Million Playstation2 owners seems like a pretty broad range to me. I'm not saying that every PS2 owner will buy a PS3, I'm saying that there are at LEAST 120 million homes that see the Playstation brand as a viable part of their home entertainment.

Many people are not into gaming machines. They would rather buy a stand-alone HD player. Of course the PS2 appealed to a broad range of customers but that is because those customers were buying a game machine. The PS3 is targeted at the gaming community and IMO is still perceived as a gaming machine.

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by Blurry

Many people are not into gaming machines. They would rather buy a stand-alone HD player. Of course the PS2 appealed to a broad range of customers but that is because those customers were buying a game machine. The PS3 is targeted at the gaming community and IMO is still perceived as a gaming machine.

I totally agree with that statement. The babyboomers (those born during the 40's-50's) makeup a large percentage of the buying population and I just do not see them snatching up gaming consoles to watch movies. Count my Dad as one of them. Pretty technically savy guy, (owns an HDTV and loves to watch his sports in HD). I just don't see him buying a console, and I don't see him buying for another two years or so until prices drop... Unless, that is, cheap HD-DVD players (think China) hit the market sooner and get near the $200 price point (very easily could happen in 12-18 months)...